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5 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

Hi, yes so a dutch barge is appealing but wont I run into height issues with a fixed wheelhouse, I know they can have ones that you can lower but that sounds a pain in the posterior every time I hit a low bridge in England , I really like the Collingwood ( see link ) I believe it was bespoke but if they have done it once, again I need to check the heights for bridges and the " air draft " , which I presume is a combination of width , height and curviness 

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/collingwood-galactica-for-sale/642792

I thought you wanted a good boat?

 

Look elsewhere other than Collinwood would be my advice from experience.  Do you know the parentage of Collinwood and the other Liverpool skip welders?

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1 minute ago, Fraclowe said:

Hi, yes so a dutch barge is appealing but wont I run into height issues with a fixed wheelhouse, I know they can have ones that you can lower but that sounds a pain in the posterior every time I hit a low bridge in England , I really like the Collingwood ( see link ) I believe it was bespoke but if they have done it once, again I need to check the heights for bridges and the " air draft " , which I presume is a combination of width , height and curviness 

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/collingwood-galactica-for-sale/642792

 

 

I think you are maybe trying to get two boats in one (you are not the 1st and won't be the last).

A boat suitable for the Inland canals is very unlikely to be suitable for coastal work, and exteremely unlikley to be suitable for sea passages.

 

For the last few years we have"come off" the canals and got a boat suitable for both River and coastal use, last year we have given up on Rivers and are now 100% 'Lumpy water' based.

No restrictions, no licence needed, no safety checks.

Can still cruise around the GB coastline (7000 + miles), can tie up for a few days, hire a car and visit inland if we want.

The boat is (CatB) so capable of  sea crossings, and our insurance covers us for Europe and European waterways as well.

 

 

 

Cruising Range Map.png

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3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I thought you wanted a good boat?

 

Look elsewhere other than Collinwood would be my advice from experience.  Do you know the parentage of Collinwood and the other Liverpool skip welders?

you don't advise Collingwood then 😁, I will have a look at some barges, is there a manufacturer you would advise

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6 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

you don't advise Collingwood then 😁, I will have a look at some barges, is there a manufacturer you would advise

 

 

I would firstly define you boating expectations and aspirations.

You can then look to see how they can be achieved (North / South / Coastal)

You can then decide on the correct boat for the waters you have decided on.

 

You appear to be currently trying to find a boat you like the look of, and then hoping to find the water to 'fit it on'.

 

 

There are as many defintions of 'barge' as there are boats - have a look on YouTube for "The Voyages of Princess Matilda"

This was the story of a TV 'star' who had a 'breakdown' and bought a boat, he set off around the UK coast in his 'Barge' and it took him 6 years to do the trip.

 

Here is a 'taster'

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

you don't advise Collingwood then 😁, I will have a look at some barges, is there a manufacturer you would advise

I have been let down too many times when recommending things, sorry. But I would look elsewhere for a hull.

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I saw a nice dutch barge being built at Colecraft a few years ago.  I would recommend getting in touch with them and see what they suggest.  I believe they are better boat builders than C**********s.  Not that I'm biased, having bought a narrowboat sailaway from them.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You appear to be currently trying to find a boat you like the look of, and then hoping to find the water to 'fit it on'.

 

kind of, I want to get something that is as much of an " all rounder " as possible, I know there are going to be trade offs , no midlands for a W/B, lenght in some area's , it then kind of progressed further on someone's suggestion , the north of England is my home area so really its to cover that 

 

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13 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

 

kind of, I want to get something that is as much of an " all rounder " as possible, I know there are going to be trade offs , no midlands for a W/B, lenght in some area's , it then kind of progressed further on someone's suggestion , the north of England is my home area so really its to cover that 

 

 

 

Have you ever been on a narrowboat, or a wide boat, or a barge, or done any boating ?

 

Maybe once this C19 is over and you are nearing the time to 'come home' take a month or two off and come and actually look at the various options.

Looking at pretty pictures and videos on the web is all well and good, but if you are looking to spend upwards of £200,00 (which is what a good wide boat will cost) you need to be sure that it is what you want (warts and all)

Just one anecdote :

A boater in the same marina as us spent £300,000 on his brand new widebeam, from day one he had many problems that the manufacturer accepted and sent out a repair crew.

The first week there were 3 guys for the full week, the second week there were two guys for the full week, a couple of weeks later the crew of 3 returned. This continued on and off for several months, and then one day I spoke with one of the 'rectification' guys and asked if this was normal, he replied, O' No they are normally much worse than this, this was built to a very high standard and hand finished especially for the Boat-Show. A few weeks later the manufacturer declared they could not resolve the water leaks (rain water getting into the boat) and they walked-away refusing to do any more work on it.

 

Buy a secondhand boat that has had its problems sorted out and the owner has taken the first hit on depreciation. You get to use it immediately instead of waiting 1+ year for yours to be built.

 

Pretty much everyone who responds to you will have their reasons for recommending certain things to you (that includes me), whether it is circumstances or experiences, it may well not be  relevant to you. Make your own choices.

 

The canals have changed over the last 40 years I've been on them ,and most of it is 'negative'. I won't detail my reasons, you may find the canals charming', but its back to the freedom of open-water for us.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I would firstly define you boating expectations and aspirations.

You can then look to see how they can be achieved (North / South / Coastal)

You can then decide on the correct boat for the waters you have decided on.

 

You appear to be currently trying to find a boat you like the look of, and then hoping to find the water to 'fit it on'.

 

 

There are as many defintions of 'barge' as there are boats - have a look on YouTube for "The Voyages of Princess Matilda"

This was the story of a TV 'star' who had a 'breakdown' and bought a boat, he set off around the UK coast in his 'Barge' and it took him 6 years to do the trip.

 

Here is a 'taster'

 

 

He always looked so stressed while boating I wondered why he did it

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I know you want a new build but I'd have a good look around at some second hand widebeams before you commission your own build, even if it's just to get a feel for what you want. I'm not suggesting wasting private sellers' time by fender-kicking, but there are a few brokerages around with widebeams and you could have a look. You might even find one that takes your fancy that's not too expensive. It would certainly be less hassle than having one built, but do get a survey. 

 

If this is going to be your first boat (and apologies for that assumption if it isn't), then after a couple of years you'll undoubtedly realise that there are things you should have had done differently. So why not find that out on a second hand boat? 

3 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

 

kind of, I want to get something that is as much of an " all rounder " as possible, I know there are going to be trade offs , no midlands for a W/B, lenght in some area's , it then kind of progressed further on someone's suggestion , the north of England is my home area so really its to cover that 

 

 

It's a pity that the Crick boat show is unlikely to be on this year. It usually happens in April/May and there are usually a few widebeams on display. Keep your ear to the ground though - just in case lockdown miraculously finishes and Crick does happen - perhaps a bit later in the year? 

Edited by blackrose
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7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

t's a pity that the Crick boat show is unlikely to be on this year. It usually happens in April/May and there are usually a few widebeams on display. Keep your ear to the ground though - just in case lockdown miraculously finishes and Crick does happen - perhaps a bit later in the year? 

yes it would have been nice, I am sure if Crick is on u guys will b talking about it 

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7 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

yes it would have been nice, I am sure if Crick is on u guys will b talking about it 

Crick Boat Show is a virtual event this year, taking place in March.  Free tickets are currently available, if that is of interest.

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5 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Crick Boat Show is a virtual event this year, taking place in March.  Free tickets are currently available, if that is of interest.

ok , will go look now, thx 

 

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23 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

Ok maybe I have mis-read my map I had, I can go all way over the leeds liverpool go to york,sheffiled,nottingham and down to cambridge etc in up to 62ft,

You can’t get a 62ft to Sheffield. I wouldn’t go above 60ft and 12ft maybe a push on some canals. Also consider your rear stern style especially on the shorter lock canals, as you could struggle closing the gates behind you with a square Euro-cruiser style stern.

  You might think you need the maximum size boat, but a lot of the time that does not turn out to be the right decision especially if you want to cruise in it.

Edited by PD1964
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Rather than dreaming about what is theoretically possible, like crossing the Atlantic (where you might die), what boating are you actually going to do? Maybe a narrowboat is the way to go, they go on rivers, wide canals, and Narrow canals, and there are a lot of lovely narrow canals.

 

For English (and Welsh) boating a narrowboat is the best option, if and when you get bored with that then buy a big boat in Europe. Some people have both.

 

..............Dave

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1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

You might think you need the maximum size boat,

thats what I am trying to work out, what is the largest/best size boat to do as much travelling round as I can but still have room to live on, with everyone's input I have kinda thought 60 x 12 is gonna be the max 

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30 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

thats what I am trying to work out, what is the largest/best size boat to do as much travelling round as I can but still have room to live on, with everyone's input I have kinda thought 60 x 12 is gonna be the max 

Most 60x12’s rarely leave the Marina’s.

If your CCing and moving a lot, they’re not the easiest to move and find moorings.

  It’s all down to how the interior space is used to how spacious it feels. You can have the wow factor or a practical boat.

  No point in buying new if your a novice as you may not like it and you’ve wasted a lot of money. There’s a lot who have done that, so there are decent widebeams on the market if you look that can offer huge savings on new.

 

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8 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Most 60x12’s rarely leave the Marina’s.

If your CCing and moving a lot, they’re not the easiest to move and find moorings.

  It’s all down to how the interior space is used to how spacious it feels. You can have the wow factor or a practical boat.

  No point in buying new if your a novice as you may not like it and you’ve wasted a lot of money. There’s a lot who have done that, so there are decent widebeams on the market if you look that can offer huge savings on new.

 

ok, thank you 

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9 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

thats what I am trying to work out, what is the largest/best size boat to do as much travelling round as I can but still have room to live on, with everyone's input I have kinda thought 60 x 12 is gonna be the max 

 

I'd suggest that the vast majority of liveboards* are happily living on a 7' wide x 60'-72' narrowboat

 

* There are some 'fat boats' that live in marinas as 'floating flats' that never move so they can be discounted.

 

I did suggest earlier :

 

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would firstly define you boating expectations and aspirations.

You can then look to see how they can be achieved (North / South / Coastal)

You can then decide on the correct boat for the waters you have decided on.

 

You do need to determine EITHER, how you are happy 'living' and get a boat that meets those requirements, THEN find what waters are available to you, OR decide to go boating that will allow you maximum boating pleasure and then adapt your life to what space the boat offers you.

 

Or, you can do both, & have an 'anorexic' boat for the canals and a 'fatty' for Rivers and coastal use. Split your time between the two.

 

Until you have had a week or two on a narrowboat then you will not know if you can 'live with it' so it is always suggest the that you 'hire before you buy'.

 

 

This is why 'a fat' boat on the 'wrong' canal causes so much, animosity, hate and anxiety, when the only way to get past is to squeeze along the bank, probaly getting yourself stuck in the shallows.

 

(Just for the sake of clarity, my boats are 14' beam and 23' beam. I am not a widebeam 'hater').

 

Wide_Beam_North Oxford.jpg

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On 17/02/2021 at 23:11, Fraclowe said:

nice to know its possible tho , thank u 

Anything is possible.  The better question, is, 'is it sensible'?

 

The number of widebeams which are suitable for canal cruising and have travelled from Lincolnshire to the Thames across the North Sea is likely to be incredibly small.  Anyone know?  Less than ten ever?

 

To the OP:  If you must get a widebeam, then 57' makes sense.  There would be a lot of available cruising in the north to keep you happy for a good while. A narrowboat is clearly far superior though. 

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19 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

Hi, yes so a dutch barge is appealing but wont I run into height issues with a fixed wheelhouse, I know they can have ones that you can lower but that sounds a pain in the posterior every time I hit a low bridge in England , I really like the Collingwood ( see link ) I believe it was bespoke but if they have done it once, again I need to check the heights for bridges and the " air draft " , which I presume is a combination of width , height and curviness 

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/collingwood-galactica-for-sale/642792

That's a boat for sitting in a marina, not for cruising.

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9 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

thats what I am trying to work out, what is the largest/best size boat to do as much travelling round as I can but still have room to live on, with everyone's input I have kinda thought 60 x 12 is gonna be the max 

The honest answer to this is a 57' x 6'10" narrowboat. 

 

There's a long list of people who buy 60 x 12' widebeams intending to go exploring and the hassle of move boats like that around means they end up living in a marina or selling the boat for a loss.

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd suggest that the vast majority of liveboards* are happily living on a 7' wide x 60'-72' narrowboat

 

* There are some 'fat boats' that live in marinas as 'floating flats' that never move so they can be discounted.

 

I did suggest earlier :

 

 

You do need to determine EITHER, how you are happy 'living' and get a boat that meets those requirements, THEN find what waters are available to you, OR decide to go boating that will allow you maximum boating pleasure and then adapt your life to what space the boat offers you.

 

Or, you can do both, & have an 'anorexic' boat for the canals and a 'fatty' for Rivers and coastal use. Split your time between the two.

 

Until you have had a week or two on a narrowboat then you will not know if you can 'live with it' so it is always suggest the that you 'hire before you buy'.

 

 

This is why 'a fat' boat on the 'wrong' canal causes so much, animosity, hate and anxiety, when the only way to get past is to squeeze along the bank, probaly getting yourself stuck in the shallows.

 

(Just for the sake of clarity, my boats are 14' beam and 23' beam. I am not a widebeam 'hater').

 

Wide_Beam_North Oxford.jpg

I'd add that the widebeam in the pic looks less than 12' too.

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1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

The honest answer to this is a 57' x 6'10" narrowboat. 

 

There's a long list of people who buy 60 x 12' widebeams intending to go exploring and the hassle of move boats like that around means they end up living in a marina or selling the boat for a loss.

 

 

There is a boat in the marina we used to be in (until last year).

It was purchased brand new at a cost in excess of £300,000, plans to travel 'far & wide' & as far as I know it went out of the marina once (onto the River) came back and never went out again.

It then went up for sale and 3 years later it is (was) still for sale at £250,000.

It is huge monstrocity of a boat (looks pretty in 'red') but was just not suitable for an inexperienced boater.

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There is a boat in the marina we used to be in (until last year).

It was purchased brand new at a cost in excess of £300,000, plans to travel 'far & wide' & as far as I know it went out of the marina once (onto the River) came back and never went out again.

It then went up for sale and 3 years later it is (was) still for sale at £250,000.

It is huge monstrocity of a boat (looks pretty in 'red') but was just not suitable for an inexperienced boater.

It happens a lot, it seems.  Probably scratched it in a bridge 'ole.  These TV programmes have a lot to answer for!

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