Built-in Generators

[jetzi]

Can anyone suggest a high-quality generator for built-in purposes? Or a brand/manufacturer I should look at?

Efficiency is the most important factor, then quietness. It would be great if it was water cooled and could be hooked up to a calorifier. I think @peterboat has such a thing.

 

Can't afford it by the way, this is just for dreaming purposes. Dream is to convert to electric drive and use this generator for charging up a 48V lithium battery.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

One of the most common brands.

 

Marine generators for boats and yachts | Fischer Panda

 

You need to go for a 1500rpm (much quieter than the 3000rpm)

Water cooled

properly installed.

 

For the 'installed cost' you can roughly 'double the cost' of the generator itself when you add in the marine exhaust and fixing kit and the labour to do it.

[jetzi]

Thank you Alan!

 

Is there anything special about a "marine" generator rather than any plain old diesel generator?

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Thank you Alan!

 

Is there anything special about a "marine" generator rather than any plain old diesel generator?

 

If you are talking about things like open frame site generators then lots. the marine one will be water cooled with a  water cooled exhaust so inherently quieter.

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Thank you Alan!

 

Is there anything special about a "marine" generator rather than any plain old diesel generator?

 

 

O' Yes.

 

A 'standard' genrator (such as a building site 'frame' generator) is not designed for installation ANYWHERE, and trying to install it in (say) a boat would mean bodging it up with home made exhaust etc etc etc.

A standard building site generator will be a factor of x times as noisy as a proper cacooned water cooled marine generator.

 

 

The article below makes somber reading. particularly as it was installed by a 'Gas-Safe' installer, but it still killed his wife and child. (it was a petrol version, not that it matters)

 

 

MAIB Report No 02/2015 - Arniston - Very Serious Marine Casualty (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

 

Your life (and hopefully no others) your choice !!

Edited January 26, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

One of the most common brands.

 

Marine generators for boats and yachts | Fischer Panda

 

You need to go for a 1500rpm (much quieter than the 3000rpm)

Water cooled

properly installed.

 

For the 'installed cost' you can roughly 'double the cost' of the generator itself when you add in the marine exhaust and fixing kit and the labour to do it.

Your looking at 8-10 grand for a cocooned water-cooled marine 10kVA generator.

 

Again be careful, most marine generators are intended for use on yachts and are designed for freshwater/seawater cooling with a "wet exhaust". This is not the best idea for canals because they rely on pumping a continuous flow of cooling water from outside, which is prone to getting blocked or silting up on the canals. The "right" solution is a generator designed to use closed-circuit skin/keel cooling like most narrowboat diesels, which also means it should be able to heat a calorifier when running -- here the exhaust is "dry" because the cooling water doesn't flow through it. Some marine generators can have keel cooling added by the installer, but unless it's officially sanctioned by the manufacturer (not many are) this can invalidate the guarantee, especially using a dry exhaust. Many are also very tightly packed in to minimise size, but this makes access difficult, reliability may not be so good, parts may be expensive and service difficult to find on the canals.

 

See here for a lot more information -- I'd say the BetaGen 10 is a good choice for the same reasons, others may have their own suggestions.

 

https://www.perseverancenb.com/post/generator-specification-or-smoke-and-mirrors

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, jetzi said:

Can anyone suggest a high-quality generator for built-in purposes? Or a brand/manufacturer I should look at?

Efficiency is the most important factor, then quietness. It would be great if it was water cooled and could be hooked up to a calorifier. I think @peterboat has such a thing.

 

Can't afford it by the way, this is just for dreaming purposes. Dream is to convert to electric drive and use this generator for charging up a 48V lithium battery.

Get a travel power. Superb bit of kit.

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, jetzi said:

Can anyone suggest a high-quality generator for built-in purposes? Or a brand/manufacturer I should look at?

Efficiency is the most important factor, then quietness. It would be great if it was water cooled and could be hooked up to a calorifier. I think @peterboat has such a thing.

 

Can't afford it by the way, this is just for dreaming purposes. Dream is to convert to electric drive and use this generator for charging up a 48V lithium battery.

Have a look at Apollo duck type in generators and a chap in yorkshire will turn up he does generators in the 5K region sometimes cheaper. he will do you a non marinised version so it can heat water in the boat as well, however its not a simple as you think, I have a heat store with 140 litres in it and the radiators run from that so no chance of overheating

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Get a travel power. Superb bit of kit.

Tim he is throwing the big diesel drive engine away mate

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Have a look at Apollo duck type in generators and a chap in yorkshire will turn up he does generators in the 5K region sometimes cheaper. he will do you a non marinised version so it can heat water in the boat as well, however its not a simple as you think, I have a heat store with 140 litres in it and the radiators run from that so no chance of overheating

Tim he is throwing the big diesel drive engine away mate

Ahh sorry, I hadnt realised he was that daft ?

[jetzi]

4 hours ago, jetzi said:

Can't afford it by the way, this is just for dreaming purposes. Dream is to convert to electric drive and use this generator for charging up a 48V lithium battery.

 

Just dreaming right now, just wanting to figure out what it is that I'm dreaming of ?

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, jetzi said:

 

Just dreaming right now, just wanting to figure out what it is that I'm dreaming of ?

I did that and now have two electric boats!! ?

[Mike Hurley]

47 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

Tim he is throwing the big diesel drive engine away mate

To install electric drive then fit a big diesel engine to charge it................................

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Mike Hurley said:

To install electric drive then fit a big diesel engine to charge it................................

Small diesel engine 460cc instead of a 2.2 litre engine to drive a boat at 3mph

[blackrose]

If I had about £10K to blow this is what I'd be looking at. It's their smallest offering but 4.5kW would be plenty for me. They have much bigger beasts in their catalogue.

 

M673LD3G: 5/4.5 kW – Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (northern-lights.com)

 

Energy Solutions: Northern Lights - Generators (energy-solutions.co.uk)

 

Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration – Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (northern-lights.com)

 

I've no idea what size you'd need to charge propulsion batteries, but then I've never understood the concept of ripping out a diesel propulsion engine, only to replace it with another diesel engine to drive a hydraulic propulsion unit or to charge propulsion batteries.

Edited January 26, 2021 by blackrose

[peterboat]

48 minutes ago, blackrose said:

If I had about £10K to blow this is what I'd be looking at. It's their smallest offering but 4.5kW would be plenty for me. They have much bigger beasts in their catalogue.

 

M673LD3G: 5/4.5 kW – Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (northern-lights.com)

 

Energy Solutions: Northern Lights - Generators (energy-solutions.co.uk)

 

Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration – Northern Lights Marine Generators And Technicold Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (northern-lights.com)

 

I've no idea what size you'd need to charge propulsion batteries, but then I've never understood the concept of ripping out a diesel propulsion engine, only to replace it with another diesel engine to drive a hydraulic propulsion unit or to charge propulsion batteries.

Because solar in the summer will produce enough energy to propel you cheap and quietly 

[blackrose]

12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Because solar in the summer will produce enough energy to propel you cheap and quietly 

 

Not sure I'd want to be relying on solar power propulsion on rivers against the current. The noise of my engine has never bothered me and it's cheap enough to run. It's going to take a lot of solar powered miles before those panels are paid for. But anyway that's solar power and we were talking about replacing diesel engines with diesel generators.

[jetzi]

You can get very powerful motors if you want to cruise on fast flowing rivers.

 

There's a conversation about it going on over on this thread:

 

Wouldn't be possible to justify replacing a working diesel engine with a generator/motor combo, but if my engine was to blow up or if I was to have a new build, it would be a no brainer for me.

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Not sure I'd want to be relying on solar power propulsion on rivers against the current. The noise of my engine has never bothered me and it's cheap enough to run. It's going to take a lot of solar powered miles before those panels are paid for. But anyway that's solar power and we were talking about replacing diesel engines with diesel generators.

The point is solar can help and reduce emissions plus noise, I have spent 2 years just using solar, the diesel genny is for the future when I go CCing. Solar panels are as cheap as chips my last four 300 watts monos were 80 squids each it's for nothing really 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, peterboat said:

The point is solar can help and reduce emissions plus noise, I have spent 2 years just using solar, the diesel genny is for the future when I go CCing. Solar panels are as cheap as chips my last four 300 watts monos were 80 squids each it's for nothing really 

 

Yes for the canals I can see solar propulsion is a viable option. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by blackrose

[peterboat]

23 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes for the canals I can see solar propulsion is a viable option. 

I am on a navigation so it's rivers and canals 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I am on a navigation so it's rivers and canals 

 

Yes for you, but it's definitely not viable for me and some of the rivers I've been on. As I said earlier I wouldn't want to relying on solar pushing against the current. I've taken my boat on red board up the Thames for 2 long days, and solar/batteries pushing hard on the tidal Thames or crossing the Bristol channel isn't going to work unless it's a massive setup. I'd only consider it if I knew the boat was staying on canals. If the answer for those river situations is to start a diesel generator to charge the batteries, then I come back to my point that if you're relying on diesel there was no point removing the diesel engine in the first place.

 

It's horses for courses. If it suits you that's fine and good luck to you, but I wouldn't want it.

Edited January 26, 2021 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes for you, but it's definitely not viable for me and some of the rivers I've been on. As I said earlier I wouldn't want to relying on solar pushing against the current. I've taken my boat on red board up the Thames for 2 long days, and solar/batteries pushing hard on the tidal Thames or crossing the Bristol channel isn't going to work unless it's a massive setup. I'd only consider it if I knew the boat was staying on canals. If the answer for those river situations is to start a diesel generator to charge the batteries, then I come back to my point that if you're relying on diesel there was no point removing the diesel engine in the first place.

 

It's horses for courses. If it suits you that's fine and good luck to you, but I wouldn't want it.

 

 

I completely agree, and in my situation Electric is just not practical, the 'problem' that we have is that by 2050 ALL boats on UK waters (inland and territorial waters) MUST be zero emission, and, as it currently stands that means that all our diesel engined boats will be banned from use, the only options will be :

 

1) Zero emission engine (power source to be determined - Hydrogen, Methane, E-Diesel etc)

2) Electric drive with batteries charged by a diesel generator.

 

From 2035 ALL new boats built for use in UK waters MUST be zero-emission propulsion.

 

It is ridiculous but it seems it is only the final drive (propulsion) that is targeted & it will be quite legal to use a diesel generator.

 

I guess, being realistic, by 2050 it will be of no concern to me, I'll either be sitting talking to Cpt. Nemo and Davy Jones, or I'll be sitting in the corner 'dribbling' mumbling about the good old days

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

or I'll be sitting in the corner 'dribbling' mumbling about the good old days

 

so not much change then!

?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

so not much change then!

?

 

 

I'll set 'em up..........................

[peterboat]

40 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes for you, but it's definitely not viable for me and some of the rivers I've been on. As I said earlier I wouldn't want to relying on solar pushing against the current. I've taken my boat on red board up the Thames for 2 long days, and solar/batteries pushing hard on the tidal Thames or crossing the Bristol channel isn't going to work unless it's a massive setup. I'd only consider it if I knew the boat was staying on canals. If the answer for those river situations is to start a diesel generator to charge the batteries, then I come back to my point that if you're relying on diesel there was no point removing the diesel engine in the first place.

 

It's horses for courses. If it suits you that's fine and good luck to you, but I wouldn't want it.

I have no choice this bit is canal the next river, it's not fast flowing mostly but was last week and only somebody with a death wish would have gone out on it.

The system suits me but I get it doesn't suit everybody, as Alan says though we have to explore options as legislation has been put in place.