Widebeam help and advice please.

[MalibuSam]

10 hours ago, MrsM said:

Hi MalibuSam. If you have a read through some of the other "new to boating" posts you will see that quite a few people start their boating journeys thinking that a widebeam apartment-style boat is what they want. Many experienced members spend a lot of time encouraging people to think through their options carefully before committing their money. For example, there is a big difference between a luxurious widebeam that will be mostly marina-based and a boat that will allow its owner to explore the extent of the inland waterways. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of very happy widebeam owners. I'm a newbie like you and found the advice I got on the forum invaluable when I was looking for my used narrowboat. No disrespect was meant by the other responders I'm sure. In terms of sofas, loads of boat owners recommend Sofabed Barn, while many others find something suitable in places like IKEA. I guess a modular sofa is easiest for getting in and out of small doors. Welcome to the world of boating! I expect if you are happy to provide a bit more info about where you will be based and what you plan to do with your boat then the replies and feedback you get will be helpful. PS there might be some widebeam Facebook groups that could help too. 

Many thanks for your helpful information.  I perhaps should have put a bit more info before I posted.  We have been looking to buy a boat for over 7 years and have looked at and tried hundreds of different boats over this time, both narrow and wide and finally decided that a widebeam suited our requirements for my husband's forthcoming retirement.  This was not a snap decision, we have done a lot of research regarding the actual technical sides / requirements of living / cruising on a boat.  My husband has also experience of piloting boats of different types/sizes.  We were just hoping to get a little bit of advice about the not so important things.  I have joined a few Facebook groups, so will post on there as well.  Many thanks?

[MalibuSam]

9 hours ago, blackrose said:

I thought one of the benefits of a widebeam was that you could put any size household furniture inside - as long as you could get it through the doors. That's my experience anyway. I don't really understand why you would you need a specialist sofa manufacturer? Leave that to the narrowboaters.

 

I can't help thinking that the OP is more interested in internal and external seating arrangements than the fundamentals of the boat. Or perhaps I'm just taking this particular question out of context.

Thank you for your reply.  Yes we obviously would need to do some measuring when we get the boat, but just wanted some peoples opinions on specialist sofa manufactuers as always like to favour the smaller businesses.

 

Sorry but I obviously didn't given enough information before posting.  The fundamentals of the boat have been viewed, tried, tested, discussed and chosen over several years of looking, so this is the more fine details that we wanted advice on.  We are certainly not buying the boat on vanity, just personal choice, comfort and space. ?

9 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

With a widebeam you are going to find it a problem getting out "on the cut" from the Gloucester and Sharpness. 

Going North the canals off the Severn at Worcester and Stourport are both narrow, and only the Droitwich is wide for a short distance. You also have the Avon but this also only leads to a narrow canal.

Going South would mean you have to navigate the tidal Severn to Avonmouth, not a trip to be undertaken lightly, but that would allow you access to the Kennet and Avon, and eventually the Thames.

Many thanks for your reply.  We are mainly going to be moored up on the canal, we are not planning (initially anyway) on crusing too far.  As we have a home mooring at a marina, we don't have to do the travelling as per cc regulations.  The areas of Saul, Slimbridge etc really appear to us (we have been going for walks there every weekend for years), so just the idea of mooring up in the middle of nature appeals to us greatly.

[MrsM]

35 minutes ago, MalibuSam said:

Thank you for your reply.  Yes we obviously would need to do some measuring when we get the boat, but just wanted some peoples opinions on specialist sofa manufactuers as always like to favour the smaller businesses.

 

Sorry but I obviously didn't given enough information before posting.  The fundamentals of the boat have been viewed, tried, tested, discussed and chosen over several years of looking, so this is the more fine details that we wanted advice on.  We are certainly not buying the boat on vanity, just personal choice, comfort and space. ?

Many thanks for your reply.  We are mainly going to be moored up on the canal, we are not planning (initially anyway) on crusing too far.  As we have a home mooring at a marina, we don't have to do the travelling as per cc regulations.  The areas of Saul, Slimbridge etc really appear to us (we have been going for walks there every weekend for years), so just the idea of mooring up in the middle of nature appeals to us greatly.

Just something to think about: we met quite a few WB owners in the Northampton area when we bought our NB. Several of them keep small cruisers/tenders for exploring the system and don't often take their WB home boats out of the marina. This seemed to work really well for them and gave them the best of both worlds; space and comfort + flexibility. 

[dmr]

35 minutes ago, MalibuSam said:

Hi Dave

 

Thank you for your "informative" answer.  Perhaps I should have given a bit more information before I asked such specific questions.  We have been looking to buy a boat for over 7 years and have looked at and tried hundreds of different boats over this time, both narrow and wide and finally decided that a widebeam suited our requirements for my husband's forthcoming retirement.  This was not a snap decision, we have done a lot of research regarding the actual technical sides / requirements of living / cruising on a boat.  My husband has also experience of piloting boats of different types/sizes.  The cruiser stern style has appealed to us, not because we are gold medallion wearing wine sipping millionaires (sorry to disappoint you ?), but more because we love the idea of the extra entertaining space which would also double up as a comfortable area for me to work from during the warmer months.  There are not many Euro cruisers currently available that fit all our requirements (size etc) and as we are not quite ready with the cash to go because our house sale has not completed yet, we are keeping our options open in case the ones we have seen sell in the meantime.   We will have a home mooring in a marina but will also be spending long periods out on the cut, but as this will be on the G&S there should be plenty of room for us to do this without getting in anyone's way ?

Although the Thames was mentioned I would think the G&S would also be quite a good place for a boat like this, it is after all a ship canal.  The tensions are more likely to arise in places like the K&A where there are  large communities of liveaboards, some in  "low cost" boats, then folk turn up in a huge expensive widebeam that they can't really handle in a  confined channel and make themselves unpopular. I speak here as someone who has been rammed out of the way by such a boat who was unwilling or unable to stop his boat. (or maybe thought he had right of way due to owning a "superior" boat ?)

 

It looks to me that the Euro is just a big squareback with a a steel "wall" (dodger) at the back and sides with built in box seating.

The squareback gives maximum space but has some navigational issues, but nothing too serious. If you find a boat with a large cruiser stern then you could partially re-create the Euro style. Converting to a squareback is possible but quite a big job, a few boats do have complete back extensions welded on.  You could improvise the wall/dodger in canvas, though doing it in steel is not a hug project. Find a good fabricator, I have seen some really bad versions of this. Any good fabricator could build some steel box seats. They can be made in the workshop and quickly fitted. They could possibly be bolt down rather than welded to keep your options open.

 

An option is to find a boat with a really big front deck instead, these look rather good but are not common.

Yet another option is to look for a big Dutch Barge type vessel, that would be great on the G&S, but they are usually more expensive. They don't usually have a big open deck but a large fold down wheel house is probably even better.

 

...............Dave

[doratheexplorer]

50 minutes ago, MalibuSam said:

Thank you for your reply.  Yes we obviously would need to do some measuring when we get the boat, but just wanted some peoples opinions on specialist sofa manufactuers as always like to favour the smaller businesses.

 

Sorry but I obviously didn't given enough information before posting.  The fundamentals of the boat have been viewed, tried, tested, discussed and chosen over several years of looking, so this is the more fine details that we wanted advice on.  We are certainly not buying the boat on vanity, just personal choice, comfort and space. ?

Many thanks for your reply.  We are mainly going to be moored up on the canal, we are not planning (initially anyway) on crusing too far.  As we have a home mooring at a marina, we don't have to do the travelling as per cc regulations.  The areas of Saul, Slimbridge etc really appear to us (we have been going for walks there every weekend for years), so just the idea of mooring up in the middle of nature appeals to us greatly.

Sounds like a great plan for you.  A big widebeam will be fine for exploring the G&S + the River Severn and the River Avon.  The Avon especially is my favourite waterway in the country.

 

As far as adapting the stern goes, I would buy the boat and live with it how it is for a year or so.  Then you'll have a much better idea of what you actually want and how you use the spaces of the boat.

[MrsM]

10 minutes ago, dmr said:

Although the Thames was mentioned I would think the G&S would also be quite a good place for a boat like this, it is after all a ship canal.  The tensions are more likely to arise in places like the K&A where there are  large communities of liveaboards, some in  "low cost" boats, then folk turn up in a huge expensive widebeam that they can't really handle in a  confined channel and make themselves unpopular. I speak here as someone who has been rammed out of the way by such a boat who was unwilling or unable to stop his boat. (or maybe thought he had right of way due to owning a "superior" boat ?)

 

It looks to me that the Euro is just a big squareback with a a steel "wall" (dodger) at the back and sides with built in box seating.

The squareback gives maximum space but has some navigational issues, but nothing too serious. If you find a boat with a large cruiser stern then you could partially re-create the Euro style. Converting to a squareback is possible but quite a big job, a few boats do have complete back extensions welded on.  You could improvise the wall/dodger in canvas, though doing it in steel is not a hug project. Find a good fabricator, I have seen some really bad versions of this. Any good fabricator could build some steel box seats. They can be made in the workshop and quickly fitted. They could possibly be bolt down rather than welded to keep your options open.

 

An option is to find a boat with a really big front deck instead, these look rather good but are not common.

Yet another option is to look for a big Dutch Barge type vessel, that would be great on the G&S, but they are usually more expensive. They don't usually have a big open deck but a large fold down wheel house is probably even better.

 

...............Dave

I second that! One of my chums upscaled from a 57' cruiser NB to a full size modern Dutch Barge style boat and has never looked back. She can handle it solo and even plans to take it to the continent. Referring back to the original post, she did have to remove her roof hatch to lower her sofabed in because it still wouldn't go through the doors ?. 

[OldGoat]

12 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Yeahbut.......

 

The bu99ers don't stay there.

 

Great  - get them out of my hair - when they move  (which isn't often), some appear unmanageable....

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, MalibuSam said:

Thank you for your reply.  Yes we obviously would need to do some measuring when we get the boat, but just wanted some peoples opinions on specialist sofa manufactuers as always like to favour the smaller businesses.

 

Sorry but I obviously didn't given enough information before posting.  The fundamentals of the boat have been viewed, tried, tested, discussed and chosen over several years of looking, so this is the more fine details that we wanted advice on.  We are certainly not buying the boat on vanity, just personal choice, comfort and space. ?

 

 

Ok, fair enough, I obviously did take the question out of context and shouldn't have assumed the seating arrangements were your initial considerations about the boat.

 

Any widebeam questions just shout.

[blackrose]

7 hours ago, dmr said:

 

It looks to me that the Euro is just a big squareback with a a steel "wall" (dodger) at the back and sides with built in box seating.

The squareback gives maximum space but has some navigational issues, but nothing too serious.

 

Yet another option is to look for a big Dutch Barge type vessel, that would be great on the G&S, but they are usually more expensive. They don't usually have a big open deck but a large fold down wheel house is probably even better.

 

 

Not serious at all. I've never has any navigational issues related to the square stern of my boat. It tapers from 12ft down to 11ft so it's not 90 deg square.

 

I love Dutch barges and new build Dutch-style barges, but the main downside is their draught. Fine on rivers but a bit too deep for most canals - apart from ship canals. My widebeam draws 2ft 2in at the skeg which is less than many narrowboats.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by blackrose

[MrsM]

Sawley Marina have quite a few smart widebeams for sale, including a Eurocruiser I believe.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Not serious at all. I've never has any navigational issues related to the square stern of my boat. It tapers from 12ft down to 11ft so it's not 90 deg square.

 

I love Dutch barges and new build Dutch-style barges, but the main downside is their draught. Fine on rivers but a bit too deep for most canals - apart from ship canals. My widebeam draws 2ft 2in at the skeg which is less than many narrowboats.

 

 

I would think the G&S with trips up the Severn would be ideal Dutch barge cruising, though some Bridges on the Avon could be difficult/very difficult. An occasional explore of the K&A is also possible though might be hard work in places, there are a fair few big boats there, including something that looks like a small ship. For a big adventure the entire K&A to the Thames could be done.

 

...............Dave

[ditchcrawler]

Is this a Eurocruiser @MalibuSam, if so its new on the market http://wbstillrockin.blogspot.com/2020/08/neer-backward-glance.html

[blackrose]

On 28/08/2020 at 20:06, dmr said:

I would think the G&S with trips up the Severn would be ideal Dutch barge cruising, though some Bridges on the Avon could be difficult/very difficult. 

 

From memory this was the most difficult bridge on the Warks Avon. Easy going upstream as in my video because you can go as slow as you want. Much more difficult going downstream because you need to be travelling faster than the current so you only get one go. 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by blackrose

[Rob-M]

7 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

From memory this was the most difficult bridge on the Warks Avon. Easy going upstream as in my video because you can go as slow as you want. Much more difficult going downstream because you need to be travelling faster than the current so you only get one go. 

 

 

Bidford can be interesting in a narrowboat especially if kids are swimming in the river as you come through going downstream with a few revs on and have to try to avoid them.

[MalibuSam]

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is this a Eurocruiser @MalibuSam, if so its new on the market http://wbstillrockin.blogspot.com/2020/08/neer-backward-glance.html

Hiya, thank you so much for this.  Yes this is a Eurocruiser.  We have looked at this one online, it is a lovely boat and it would have been perfect except it is 62ft long and our mooring is only 60ft long unfortunately.

[blackrose]

41 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Bidford can be interesting in a narrowboat especially if kids are swimming in the river as you come through going downstream with a few revs on and have to try to avoid them.

There's another narrow bridge at Welford that presents a similar challenge going downstream (not the swimming kids). I used to have about 6" on either side of my 12' boat so wouldn't try to take anything wider through.

[Alan de Enfield]

53 minutes ago, MalibuSam said:

Hiya, thank you so much for this.  Yes this is a Eurocruiser.  We have looked at this one online, it is a lovely boat and it would have been perfect except it is 62ft long and our mooring is only 60ft long unfortunately.

Maybe, if you hit a couple of bridges on the way to your mooring, it may 'shrink' ?

 

?

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe, if you hit a couple of bridges on the way to your mooring, it may 'shrink' ?

 

?

Theres a much easier way than that. Buy the boat then apply to CART to register a boat, tis easy to do. Call the boat by a different name and say its sixty foot, no one will check, they didnt with the two I have registered and Bobs yer Auntie. Itll probably fit the mooring just say the fenders are big if asked ?