Choosing a boat

[clyde]

We're Symantha (Sam) and Clyde, a couple of boaters from the US and have a 5 year plan. This plan includes cruising the UK for six months a year (thank you UK) and France for three months, starting next March/April. We've lived several years on small sailboats (three years on a NorSea 27), so are somewhat accustomed to the tight spaces. All have been GRP and they've had gas or diesel inboards or outboards. Both our current boats have outboards.

 

We've alternated our options between a 30'-40' steel narrowboat, a 25'-30' GRP river cruiser (love the Albin 25), and a 25'-30' GRP narrowboat. All these boats have their pros and cons. We're probably in the $20k-$30K market but we could do more if we fell in love with something. We're relatively handy and tend to purchase fixers. However, this time, since we're not familiar with the market and availability of supplies, transportation, etc (and COVID), we would probably prefer something that needs more cleaning/painting than major repairs/remodeling.

 

In a perfect world, we would be able to cruise the canals and rivers in the UK and then trailer/ship it to France. Our needs are relatively simple and we believe it's more about the journey than the destination, so we tend to move slowly. (We will be driving the 3700 miles from Oregon to Florida in a Toyota Sienna van, and sleeping in it.)

 

So, the other day, we came across a Wilderness 23' Beaver. It's quite small but the layout is very good. Too bad they don't make a 25'-27' boat. So, the question I would like to pose to this group of very experienced and knowledgeable people is; Are we out of our minds for considering this boat??

 

Your input and opinions will be greatly appreciated. We hope to meet many of you next year...clyde

 

PS: Sorry for the length of this question.

[Athy]

Welcome to the forum, and there's no need to apologise. Yours sounds like a splendid project which I'm sure you're greatly looking forward to.

 

I'm guesstimating that $20-25000 equates to about £15-20,000. Steel narrowboats are readily available in that price range, but they will tend to be either small and rather old, or bigger and in a poor state of repair. A 40-foot n/b would suit your needs but to get a comfortable and reliable one you'd need to be adding a few extra £thousands. However you would probably find nice GRP cruisers in your suggested price range.

 

It may be better to use a different boat on the continent, as U.K.boats are not always suitable for the French waterways - and you wouldn't want to miss the French canals, believe me. After your U.K. tour you could perhaps consider selling your boat and hiring one in France. The smaller pénichettes operated by Locaboat from various French bases are worth considering, and that way you could hire in different parts of the country.

[PD1964]

Hi, an option is to buy a small Narrowboat up North(Yorkshire) £15k-£20K ish, cruise the waterways doing her up heading South and when your ready to go to France finish your trip in London and sell it to some young Hipster who works in a Vegan coffee shop and hopefully make a small profit. Catch the EuroStar to France find another boat and start your adventure on the French Canals. Simple and you have non of the hassle getting a boat from UK to France with all the hassle of import paperwork?Good luck.

Edited August 20, 2020 by PD1964

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

Hi, an option is to buy a small Narrowboat up North(Yorkshire) £15k-£20K ish, cruise the waterways doing her up heading South and when your ready to go to France finish your trip in London and sell it to some young Hipster who works in a Vegan coffee shop and hopefully make a small profit. Catch the EuroStar to France find another boat and start your adventure on the French Canals. Simple and you have non of the hassle getting a boat from UK to France with all the hassle of import paperwork?Good luck.

I like this plan

[restlessnomad]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

Hi, an option is to buy a small Narrowboat up North(Yorkshire) £15k-£20K ish, cruise the waterways doing her up heading South and when your ready to go to France finish your trip in London and sell it to some young Hipster who works in a Vegan coffee shop and hopefully make a small profit. Catch the EuroStar to France find another boat and start your adventure on the French Canals. Simple and you have non of the hassle getting a boat from UK to France with all the hassle of import paperwork?Good luck.

I always thought Londoners buy expensive boat to get mooring, otherwise they can buy from north (or anywhere) and just move it to london by road....

[PD1964]

6 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

I always thought Londoners buy expensive boat to get mooring, otherwise they can buy from north (or anywhere) and just move it to london by road....

Most are not that smart and if the “Bank of Mum & Dad” are buying their not that bothered in looking too far a field as it’s already for them to move in.

[matty40s]

The cheapest way of getting a boat from UK to France ( other than by crossing the Channel), is by buying a boat less than 30 feet in length, which can be tailored, rather than stuck on the back of a truck (not your trucks, ...our HGV's). 

The Wilderness boats, or Sea Otters are good for this, but high initial cost as very sought after.....particularly at present as we cant safely go abroad for holidays,  so stay UK is top dollar so to speak.

[clyde]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

Welcome to the forum, and there's no need to apologise. Yours sounds like a splendid project which I'm sure you're greatly looking forward to.

 

I'm guesstimating that $20-25000 equates to about £15-20,000. Steel narrowboats are readily available in that price range, but they will tend to be either small and rather old, or bigger and in a poor state of repair. A 40-foot n/b would suit your needs but to get a comfortable and reliable one you'd need to be adding a few extra £thousands. However you would probably find nice GRP cruisers in your suggested price range.

 

It may be better to use a different boat on the continent, as U.K.boats are not always suitable for the French waterways - and you wouldn't want to miss the French canals, believe me. After your U.K. tour you could perhaps consider selling your boat and hiring one in France. The smaller pénichettes operated by Locaboat from various French bases are worth considering, and that way you could hire in different parts of the country.

My fault. I should have explained myself better. Your idea makes wonderful sense except that we live in Oregon, on the west coast of the US and we're trying to minimize travel costs while maximizing the time we spend on the boat. Since we can spend 6 months in the UK and 3 in France, our thought was to combine them both. We've even considered 6 months in the UK and then 3 in France. Leave the boat in France and fly home. Return in 3 months and then spend another 3 months in France and then 6 months in the UK. Our goal is to do this for 5 years, plus or minus.

 

It's the time limits that create the issues for us. It's not like Thailand where you can walk across the bridge to Myanmar, get your passport stamped and then return to Thailand for another 60 days. Of course, I understand from fellow sailors that the US is one of the most difficult countries to visit for any length of time. I apologize and hope this explains our situation a little better.

 

Much gratitude to everyone who gave suggestions. I especially liked the one about selling to Londoners. We have the same situation in Portland and Seattle.

[clyde]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

The cheapest way of getting a boat from UK to France ( other than by crossing the Channel), is by buying a boat less than 30 feet in length, which can be tailored, rather than stuck on the back of a truck (not your trucks, ...our HGV's). 

The Wilderness boats, or Sea Otters are good for this, but high initial cost as very sought after.....particularly at present as we cant safely go abroad for holidays,  so stay UK is top dollar so to speak.

Thank you. This is what I was hoping to find. Several years ago, I had a 27' sailboat in Lake Tahoe, California. I wanted to ship it to Pensacola, Florida (2300 miles). The shipping companies wanted over $6000 US but since I had a trailer, I hired a commercial driver (boat and trailer weighed over 12,000 pounds). He only charged me $1000 US. What would be a ballpark price to tow a Wilderness 23 to France? Thank you again.

[PhilR]

5 hours ago, clyde said:

 

 

We've alternated our options between a 30'-40' steel narrowboat, a 25'-30' GRP river cruiser (love the Albin 25), and a 25'-30' GRP narrowboat. All these boats have their pros and cons. We're probably in the $20k-$30K market but we could do more if we fell in love with something. We're relatively handy and tend to purchase fixers. However, this time, since we're not familiar with the market and availability of supplies, transportation, etc (and COVID), we would probably prefer something that needs more cleaning/painting than major repairs/remodeling.

 

In a perfect world, we would be able to cruise the canals and rivers in the UK and then trailer/ship it to France. Our needs are relatively simple and we believe it's more about the journey than the destination, so we tend to move slowly. (We will be driving the 3700 miles from Oregon to Florida in a Toyota Sienna van, and sleeping in it.)

 

So, the other day, we came across a Wilderness 23' Beaver. It's quite small but the layout is very good. Too bad they don't make a 25'-27' boat. So, the question I would like to pose to this group of very experienced and knowledgeable people is; Are we out of our minds for considering this boat??

 

Your input and opinions will be greatly appreciated. We hope to meet many of you next year...clyde

 

PS: Sorry for the length of this question.

You mentioned the Albin 25. Bear in mind that this is 8ft 6 ins beam. Many of the river cruisers are over 6 ft 10 ins beam, which is the maximum for our narrow canals. There are wider rivers and canals but your cruising range would be limited.

[clyde]

14 minutes ago, PhilR said:

You mentioned the Albin 25. Bear in mind that this is 8ft 6 ins beam. Many of the river cruisers are over 6 ft 10 ins beam, which is the maximum for our narrow canals. There are wider rivers and canals but your cruising range would be limited.

Several members have commented on the many miles of rivers and wider canals and the extra comfort of a wider boat. That was definitely one of our options. And a wider boat would have no problem in France. But then we remembered that the original purpose of this trip/adventure was to cruise the canals. Sam and her sons spent a short time on a narrowboat several years ago. So, we do keep returning to the canals.

 

We do spend a lot of time on rivers though. I'm looking at the Columbia River as I type this. But no comparison to what you have in the UK!

[dmr]

If you want to explore the English canals then 6'10" is the limit, a lot of the best canals are "narrow". Your experience might be in "plastic" boats but the British canals are really made for steel boats (despite some historic experiments with wood), and due to the width limit a length of 50 foot or more is generally required for civilised living.

 

..................Dave

[clyde]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

If you want to explore the English canals then 6'10" is the limit, a lot of the best canals are "narrow". Your experience might be in "plastic" boats but the British canals are really made for steel boats (despite some historic experiments with wood), and due to the width limit a length of 50 foot or more is generally required for civilised living.

 

..................Dave

Thanks Dave. That definitely seems to be the consensus.

[PhilR]

55 minutes ago, dmr said:

If you want to explore the English canals then 6'10" is the limit, a lot of the best canals are "narrow". Your experience might be in "plastic" boats but the British canals are really made for steel boats (despite some historic experiments with wood), and due to the width limit a length of 50 foot or more is generally required for civilised living.

 

..................Dave

Hang on, you are trying to re-write history. The British canals were built for wooden boats (not steel ones). And the first metal boats were wrought iron or composite. I would be interested to hear about the "historic experiments with wood" Wooden boats were the norm for over 100 years?

Edited August 20, 2020 by PhilR

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, PhilR said:

Hang on, you are trying to re-write history. The British canals were built for wooden boats (not steel ones). And the first metal boats were wrought iron or composite. I would be interested to hear about the "historic experiments with wood" Wooden boats were the norm for over 100 years?

Well I was going to put a smiley at the end of that post but I thought it wasn't necessary  ?

 

If I suggested to the op that he purchased a historic wooden boat I would not be doing him any favours (I think). I am also not going to suggest that he gets a horse ?

 

.................Dave

[Athy]

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

 a boat less than 30 feet in length, which can be tailored,

You mean, adapted for the overseas canals? In what way?

[Laurie Booth]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

Well I was going to put a smiley at the end of that post but I thought it wasn't necessary  ?

 

If I suggested to the op that he purchased a historic wooden boat I would not be doing him any favours (I think). I am also not going to suggest that he gets a horse ?

 

.................Dave

Being from USA he should be good with horses

[clyde]

4 hours ago, matty40s said:

The cheapest way of getting a boat from UK to France ( other than by crossing the Channel), is by buying a boat less than 30 feet in length, which can be tailored, rather than stuck on the back of a truck (not your trucks, ...our HGV's). 

The Wilderness boats, or Sea Otters are good for this, but high initial cost as very sought after.....particularly at present as we cant safely go abroad for holidays,  so stay UK is top dollar so to speak.

Beautiful photos, Matty!! How long have you been cruising?

[system 4-50]

8 hours ago, matty40s said:

buying a boat less than 30 feet in length, which can be tailored,

trailered ?

[Movin' on]

If you are able to regard the money as "invested" and not "spent" then if you could stretch to a sea otter you will safely get it back and that would do the UK very well then as has been suggested sell it and buy a Locaboat Penichette and re-sell that - I appreciate the problem with this is you still need the money available in the first place but it would be wisely "invested".

You will add more fun factor by having 2 boating experiences and save a lot of costs on shipping etc .

I love the Albin as well hence I now have a Hardy 25 which is a similar genre.

Have fun sounds a great plan.

[PD1964]

10 hours ago, PhilR said:

You mentioned the Albin 25. Bear in mind that this is 8ft 6 ins beam. Many of the river cruisers are over 6 ft 10 ins beam, which is the maximum for our narrow canals. There are wider rivers and canals but your cruising range would be limited.

There are only a few places a boat over 6’10” can’t go due to narrow locks. If he gets a trailerble length as mentioned, he could easily move by road to miss the narrow locks. Just going from 6’10” to 8’6” would make a difference living on it.

[matty40s]

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

There are only a few places a boat over 6’10” can’t go due to narrow locks. .....

The whole central part of the canal network...

[Naughty Cal]

14 hours ago, Athy said:

Welcome to the forum, and there's no need to apologise. Yours sounds like a splendid project which I'm sure you're greatly looking forward to.

 

I'm guesstimating that $20-25000 equates to about £15-20,000. Steel narrowboats are readily available in that price range, but they will tend to be either small and rather old, or bigger and in a poor state of repair. A 40-foot n/b would suit your needs but to get a comfortable and reliable one you'd need to be adding a few extra £thousands. However you would probably find nice GRP cruisers in your suggested price range.

 

It may be better to use a different boat on the continent, as U.K.boats are not always suitable for the French waterways - and you wouldn't want to miss the French canals, believe me. After your U.K. tour you could perhaps consider selling your boat and hiring one in France. The smaller pénichettes operated by Locaboat from various French bases are worth considering, and that way you could hire in different parts of the country.

Due to current circumstances and  a lack of holidays abroad it is becoming increasingly difficult to find any decent boats around at all never mind ones in the £15-20k price bracket.

 

Boat sales have gone mad! (along with caravan, camping equipment and motorhome sales)

[PD1964]

There’s still a lot of the system he could do including rivers, this is just another thing he has to take into consideration when deciding, before just rejecting anything over 6’10”.

  Also if trailable he has the Lake District and the Lochs of Scotland not to mention the Irish waterways. There’s so many routes other then the narrow canals for him to explore, something for him to think about.

Edited August 21, 2020 by PD1964

[Jen-in-Wellies]

No narrow canals means no Llangollen and the Ponty aquaduct. No Oxford canal,no Stratford canal etc. On the plus(?) side, no BCN! ?

Jen,

Who has done much of the BCN and enjoyed a lot of it, but I'm weird that way.