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Rick Savery

Possible new boat on the K & A

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First post, complete newbie at all this but spent a long time dreaming and looking.

I have found a boat I am interested in - got to the point where I realised I would never find the perfect boat, so I had to find the nearest thing and make it perfect :-)

It's a bit 'tired' but the price probably reflects this. Haven't had a survey yet but wanted to ask - and apologies if this is bad form - is Devizes Marina a good broker to deal with?

Also, does anyone know a good surveyer who works in that part of the world, or who travels?

Thanks for your collective help

Rick

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Don’t think theres anything wrong with Devises Brokerage. Can’t help with the surveyor, but hope all goes well with the sale and the following years of boat ownership.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Rick Savery said:

First post, complete newbie at all this but spent a long time dreaming and looking.

I have found a boat I am interested in - got to the point where I realised I would never find the perfect boat, so I had to find the nearest thing and make it perfect 🙂

It's a bit 'tired' but the price probably reflects this. Haven't had a survey yet but wanted to ask - and apologies if this is bad form - is Devizes Marina a good broker to deal with?

Also, does anyone know a good surveyer who works in that part of the world, or who travels?

Thanks for your collective help

Rick

I can't advise about a specific surveyor, but this list may help to find one. I am not sure how up to date it is but at least it may be a first step..

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/surveyors.htm

 

Howard

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On 13/07/2020 at 09:17, Rick Savery said:

First post, complete newbie at all this but spent a long time dreaming and looking.

I have found a boat I am interested in - got to the point where I realised I would never find the perfect boat, so I had to find the nearest thing and make it perfect 🙂

It's a bit 'tired' but the price probably reflects this. Haven't had a survey yet but wanted to ask - and apologies if this is bad form - is Devizes Marina a good broker to deal with?

Also, does anyone know a good surveyer who works in that part of the world, or who travels?

Thanks for your collective help

Rick

I know the boats at devises marina quite well and they are good people. If you feel comfortable you can PM me the boat and I can tell you what I might know about it having done plenty of inspections there recently. I've already found my boat so don't worry I won't buy it from under you haha. 

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We still want pictures! :D

 

I knooow haha! I've put down the deposit and got the survey sorted. But am currently waiting on proof of ownership papers. Losing a lot of sleep and very very pissed off its taking so long. I'm superstitious... I'm afraid if I post pictures now then it'll all go to hell somehow haha. I will once I get the ownership proof!

Edited by Tasemu

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Just now, Tasemu said:

I knooow haha! I've put down the deposit and got the survey sorted. But am currently waiting on proof of ownership papers. Losing a lot of sleep and very very pissed off its taking so long. I'm superstitious... I'm afraid if I post pictures now then it'll all go to hell somehow haha.

 

Fair enough.  We'll look forward to seeing it - and hopefully less posts about overheating engines on this one! :D 

 

 

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On 13/07/2020 at 10:10, Nightwatch said:

Don’t think theres anything wrong with Devises Brokerage. Can’t help with the surveyor, but hope all goes well with the sale and the following years of boat ownership.

2 hours ago, Tasemu said:

I know the boats at devises marina quite well and they are good people. If you feel comfortable you can PM me the boat and I can tell you what I might know about it having done plenty of inspections there recently. I've already found my boat so don't worry I won't

Why do people insist on spelling Devizes incorrectly?

Edited by David Schweizer

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Just now, David Schweizer said:

Why do people so many people insist on spelling Devizes incorrectly?

Sorry, my bad.

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21 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Why do people insist on spelling Devizes incorrectly?

 

Dese devices devises different Devizes ...

 

An alliterative lament to auto-correct.

 

 

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Quote

But am currently waiting on proof of ownership papers.

I've read a number of threads on here that say proof of owner papers for a canal boat are really, very, very rare. Don't be surprised if none are forthcoming.

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3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Why do people insist on spelling Devizes incorrectly?

Having a bad day?

🥴

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, Col_T said:

I've read a number of threads on here that say proof of owner papers for a canal boat are really, very, very rare. Don't be surprised if none are forthcoming.

 

Perhaps he means the "Bill of Sale".

 

You will always get one with a new boat or a secondhand boat bought through a broker. If buying privately you can use the British Marine Federation proforma, if you can persuade the seller to add his details. If he wont, then ask why not and be prepared to walk away.

  • Greenie 1

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7 hours ago, Tasemu said:

  But am currently waiting on proof of ownership papers.  

You could be waiting a long time

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

You could be waiting a long time

 

If it's being sold via a brokerage it can take a few weeks for the previous owner to receive and return the bill of sale.

 

They won't get the money until they sign and return it though!

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16 hours ago, Col_T said:

I've read a number of threads on here that say proof of owner papers for a canal boat are really, very, very rare. Don't be surprised if none are forthcoming.

 

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Perhaps he means the "Bill of Sale".

 

You will always get one with a new boat or a secondhand boat bought through a broker. If buying privately you can use the British Marine Federation proforma, if you can persuade the seller to add his details. If he wont, then ask why not and be prepared to walk away.

 

14 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

You could be waiting a long time

 

12 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

If it's being sold via a brokerage it can take a few weeks for the previous owner to receive and return the bill of sale.

 

They won't get the money until they sign and return it though!

Replies like these make me sorry i've put in my notice to move out hahaha... Guess that's a lesson learned.

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14 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

 

 

 

Replies like these make me sorry i've put in my notice to move out hahaha... Guess that's a lesson learned.

 

Whilst 'marine' boats will not sell without the correct documentation, 100's of Canal Boats sell every year without any paperwork and it is extremely rare to hear of any cases of fraud being committed, there is the odd case of an acrimonious marital split where one partner decides to sell the boat without the others permission but it is the exception.

 

I have bought boats based on nothing more than "a back of a fag packet note saying 'there is no outstanding debts or ownership issues with his boat'"

 

Don't panic.

 

In an ideal world (and typically found on marine boat sales) you would expect to get :

 

The original Bill of sale from the manufacturer to the 1st owner

The RCD Certificate of compliance

The RCD Manual

The VAT paid declaration

All subsequent 'Bills of sale'.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Whilst 'marine' boats will not sell without the correct documentation, 100's of Canal Boats sell every year without any paperwork and it is extremely rare to hear of any cases of fraud being committed, there is the odd case of an acrimonious marital split where one partner decides to sell the boat without the others permission but it is the exception.

 

I have bought boats based on nothing more than "a back of a fag packet note saying 'there is no outstanding debts or ownership issues with his boat'"

 

Don't panic.

 

In an ideal world (and typically found on marine boat sales) you would expect to get :

 

The original Bill of sale from the manufacturer to the 1st owner

The RCD Certificate of compliance

The RCD Manual

The VAT paid declaration

All subsequent 'Bills of sale'.

Aye that's what i'm hoping. I don't think i have much choice on the matter, as "proof of ownership" seems to be required by my finance company. Been a rough week and a bit waiting so far. Hopefully it all comes through last minute. :)

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4 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Aye that's what i'm hoping. I don't think i have much choice on the matter, as "proof of ownership" seems to be required by my finance company. Been a rough week and a bit waiting so far. Hopefully it all comes through last minute. :)

 

Ah.........  tha'ts a different matter.

If you are taking a mortgage on the boat (rather than a personal loan) then most Finance Houses will require the boat to have "Part 1 Registration" which is the only official proof of ownership.

It is quite a complex and expensive process to go thru and I would almost bet my last £ that your potential boat is not registered.

 

Part I registration

Register your boat on the Part I register if you want to:

  • prove you own the boat
  • prove your boat’s nationality
  • use the boat as security for a marine mortgage
  • register a pleasure vessel
  • get ‘transcripts of registry’, which show the boat’s previous owners and whether there are any outstanding mortgages

Your boat must have a unique name to be registered.

It costs £153 to register for 5 years.

How to apply

You’ll need to have:

Send the following supporting documents:

  • certificate of survey for tonnage and measurement
  • international tonnage certificate if the boat is over 24 metres
  • certificate of incorporation if you’re registering on behalf of a company
  • deletion certificate if your boat was previously on another register
  • confirmation of radio call sign if you have one

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Ah.........  tha'ts a different matter.

If you are taking a mortgage on the boat (rather than a personal loan) then most Finance Houses will require the boat to have "Part 1 Registration" which is the only official proof of ownership.

It is quite a complex and expensive process to go thru and I would almost bet my last £ that your potential boat is not registered.

 

Part I registration

Register your boat on the Part I register if you want to:

  • prove you own the boat
  • prove your boat’s nationality
  • use the boat as security for a marine mortgage
  • register a pleasure vessel
  • get ‘transcripts of registry’, which show the boat’s previous owners and whether there are any outstanding mortgages

Your boat must have a unique name to be registered.

It costs £153 to register for 5 years.

How to apply

You’ll need to have:

Send the following supporting documents:

  • certificate of survey for tonnage and measurement
  • international tonnage certificate if the boat is over 24 metres
  • certificate of incorporation if you’re registering on behalf of a company
  • deletion certificate if your boat was previously on another register
  • confirmation of radio call sign if you have one

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

If that is the case I could be shit out of luck I guess. From discussions I've had with my finance agent though it appears he's only waiting for proof that the boat was sold to the previous owner. This is getting more painful by the day. 🙁

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26 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

If that is the case I could be shit out of luck I guess. From discussions I've had with my finance agent though it appears he's only waiting for proof that the boat was sold to the previous owner. This is getting more painful by the day. 🙁

If you are buying thru a broker can he not just ask if the seller has got the BoS from when he bought the boat ?

If its a private purchase can you not just ask the seller ?

 

It should be fairly simple just to ask and get a yes or no, and avoids you sitting worrying for weeks.

 

In the interim it may be worth keeping your eye on available boats, as if no BoS is forthcoming and your financier is insisting on one, you may not get this boat, or, have you considered a personal loan from the bank which is secured on you and not the boat ?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are buying thru a broker can he not just ask if the seller has got the BoS from when he bought the boat ?

If its a private purchase can you not just ask the seller ?

 

It should be fairly simple just to ask and get a yes or no, and avoids you sitting worrying for weeks.

 

In the interim it may be worth keeping your eye on available boats, as if no BoS is forthcoming and your financier is insisting on one, you may not get this boat, or, have you considered a personal loan from the bank which is secured on you and not the boat ?

Yeah its through a broker, I have asked and am currently waiting on a reply. I have also though it should be a fairly quick... but here I am. I'm going to keep an eye out for other boats in the meantime now that you recommend it. I would apply for a personal loan but for some reason I cannot get approved for one, despite having a fine credit score and a good career. I've only been a citizen for 3 years though.. so maybe that's why?

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Crowbarring this in here but not sure how normal this is. I have had my initial offer on the boat I started this topic about rejected - no problem, upwards and onwards etc.

Expressed an interest in another boat with another broker who told me it was available to view this weekend - I can't do this weekend so suggested anytime next week. They have a problem with that as they have to 'employ people to take people around the boat' and would only be available at the weekend.

Then asked whether I would like to put down a holding deposit to be able to view within 7 days (seemed to contradict point 1). Ddin't want to hand over money without seeing the boat first. Asked again about seeing it in the week - told it was in a marina where I would not be able to gain access !! All sounded like a load of old cods and the aroma of rat was making it's presence apparent.

I said not to worry and that was that. Is this normal broker stuff?

Edited by Rick Savery

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3 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Crowbarring this in here but not sure how normal this is. I have had my initial offer on the boat I started this topic about rejected - no problem, upwards and onwards etc.

Expressed an interest in another boat with another broker who told me it was available to view this weekend - I can't do this weekend so suggested anytime next week. They have a problem with that as they have to 'employ people to take people around the boat' and would only be available at the weekend.

Then asked whether I would like to put down a holding deposit to be able to view within 7 days (seemed to contradict point 1). Ddin't want to hand over money without seeing the boat first. Asked again about seeing it in the week - told it was in a marina where I would not be able to gain access !! All sounded like a load of old cods and the aroma of rat was making it's presence apparent.

I said not to worry and that was that. Is this normal broker stuff?

I can't say for sure, but that sounds weird to me. Every broker I have seen boats at were happy for me to walk in or arrange an appointment. Never was asked for a holding-to-view deposit... Are they only open on weekends? If so try for next weekend, otherwise there's plenty of other boats out there. I would be a bit turned off from that though. (only my opinion here)

EDIT: Also, i would assume that if they are a broker, employing people to show boats for sale is kinda their gig in the first place lol.

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