Satellite dish connection

[blackrose]

I moved my boat this morning and I've spent an hour with a satfinder app trying to get a signal without any success. Usually it takes me 5 minutes. There are no obvious obstructions so is there an easy way with a multimeter to quickly check if there it a connection all the way through to from the dish to the TV so I know I'm not wasting my time moving the dish around and searching for a signal?

Edited February 1, 2020 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I moved my boat this morning and I've spent an hour with a satfinder app trying to get a signal without any success. Usually it takes me 5 minutes. There are no obvious obstructions so is there an easy way with a multimeter to check if there it a connection all the way through to from the dish to the TV so I know I'm not wasting my time moving the dish around and searching for a signal?

You can check for continuity in the cable.

 

Unscrew ends from both the TV and the Dish.

Put you meter onto 'ohms' 

A probe on the core wire (each end)

Meter should show 0 (Zero)

 

Do the same test with one probe on the core (at one end) and one on the screen (braid or foil) at the other end. Any number on the meter shows a fault (core connected to screening)

 

 

Possibly water in the cable ?

Edited February 1, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can check for continuity in the cable.

 

Unscrew ends from both the TV and the Dish.

Put you meter onto 'ohms' 

A probe on the core wire (each end)

Meter should show 0 (Zero)

 

Do the same test with one probe on the core (at one end) and one on the screen (braid or foil) at the other end. Any number on the meter shows a fault (core connected to screening)

 

 

Possibly water in the cable ?

 

Thanks. The problem is that for me to get a probe onto each end of the cable would require some major cable de-routing. It's not really practical.

 

Isn't there something you can buy that connects onto the satellite dish end of the cable that would just light up if it can see the sat box?  

[Alan de Enfield]

51 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Thanks. The problem is that for me to get a probe onto each end of the cable would require some major cable de-routing. It's not really practical.

Could you connect another bit of single core cable to one end and run it back, (maybe over the roof and down a vent) to the other end so (in effect) both ends can be reached by your probes ?

[blackrose]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Could you connect another bit of single core cable to one end and run it back, (maybe over the roof and down a vent) to the other end so (in effect) both ends can be reached by your probes ?

Yes, I'll try that. The thing is that the tv was working fine until I moved so I don't think it can be the connections. 

[GUMPY]

Simple way

Disconnect the dish

Power up the receiver

Measure voltage at end of cable should be between 13 & 18v. DC

Try it on different channels as the voltage is used to switch polarization.

Be very very careful not to short screen to centre or you will destroy power supply in the receiver.

No voltage duff cable.

 

There is a good chance if you removed the dish from the cables with the sat box power connected you have fried it

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Loddon

[Keeping Up]

I would recommend getting yourself a satellite finder (plenty on eBay as well as at retailers). Not only do they help you find the satellite much better and more accurately than the apps, but also they show without doubt whether or not you are getting power up to the dish.

 

Also (in my view, of course) better than the apps - although only as long as the sun is shining - is my satellite sundial. If you are travelling it is ideal for ensuring that you moor at a spot where there is an opening through the vegetation or buildings to the satellite. Just hold the paper in front of you as you come in to the bank and stop when the arrow points to clear sky. 

[nicknorman]

deleted due to misread.

Edited February 1, 2020 by nicknorman

[dor]

I’ve got a digital sat finder which is next to useless.  The one I do use came from Aldi with the cheap dish.  Has a row of about eight leds for signal strength and another for power. Has a gain knob and screeches relative to signal strength.
 It has proved useful for fault- finding e.g. is there power at dish end.  I check in Nicholson’s for which way is SE and usually get strong signal in under a minute. If apparently a strong signal but no picture then it has found a nearby German sat. Move dish to the left and down a bit to get the right sat.

However it doesn’t find a signal if there is a tree in the way or if there is very heavy cloud and rain.  Check these first!
 

[OldGoat]

The best sat finder in the whole wide world (for ordinary folk)  is the combined TV & SAt single finder from Fringe electronics (I fiddled around for years with all sorts of other kit  - all were diabolical to useless...) Around £25 on ebay and slightly less from Amazon.

We use both satellite and terrestrial signals and it works fine for both.

 

For the reported fault - I suggest looking at the cable ends. If the cable has been disturbed and mobed around, I find that the inner conductor core can get bent or moved around.

If you (or anyone) disconnects their antenna regularly (I always take mine down when cruising) it may be better to invest in UHF plugs and sockets which are designed to be disconnected regularly. CPC have them at reasonable prices.

[frangar]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Simple way

Disconnect the dish

Power up the receiver

Measure voltage at end of cable should be between 13 & 18v. DC

Try it on different channels as the voltage is used to switch polarization.

Be very very careful not to short screen to centre or you will destroy power supply in the receiver.

No voltage duff cable.

 

There is a good chance if you removed the dish from the cables with the sat box power connected you have fried it

 

In my experience you’d have to be incredibly unlucky to fry the box. I keep mine powered when swapping between the signal meter & reconnecting straight to the dish and had no ill effects for the last 15 plus years. 
 

I would advise caution with multi meter probes tho...a dead short as Loddon says might not be so Heathly. 

[Rambling Boater]

You say no obvious obstructions but you do need complete line of sight between the dish and satellite, even a few leaves or branches can be all it takes to block the microwave signal.

 

I have a very cheap dish and receiver and can usually line everything up in a minute by hand just by knowing the elevation and azimuth of the satellite. If I turn up the volume loud on the TV I can hear when I'm in the beam whilst moving the dish, it is pretty fine though.

 

If all you've done is moved the boat than it's very likely that you have something blocking the signal or you aren't pointing at the satellite. Don't forget there are other satellites up there so you might get a reading but be pointing at a different one your receiver box is tuned to.

[Dr Bob]

17 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

I would recommend getting yourself a satellite finder (plenty on eBay as well as at retailers). Not only do they help you find the satellite much better and more accurately than the apps, but also they show without doubt whether or not you are getting power up to the dish.

 

Also (in my view, of course) better than the apps - although only as long as the sun is shining - is my satellite sundial. If you are travelling it is ideal for ensuring that you moor at a spot where there is an opening through the vegetation or buildings to the satellite. Just hold the paper in front of you as you come in to the bank and stop when the arrow points to clear sky. 

Wot he said.

The OP really needs a sat finder. Keeping ups sat sundial is FANTASTIC along with the Nic's guide. I find that a compass (or a sat finder app) is more than useless as the mass of iron on the note gives the wrong direction.

The cheap ones at least tell you the system is working but I bought a decent one as we move every day (outside of winter!) and it is totally foolproof. We are using sky Q which has a big lag on pointing at the satellite to seeing a pic on the telly so just pointing and waiting for a signal will not often work.

99% you are just not lined up properly. If your dish is not on a perfectly vertical axis then you may well be well off on the elevation to find the signal if you have moved the bote.

Where are you? Anyone near with a sat finder?

[nb Innisfree]

When we had a boat instead of trying to point dish at satellite and have probs differentiating between two Sat's close together I just pointed dish north and rotated it clockwise until the finder screeched and fixed it there. Easy because first sat encountered was the right one (Astra 2?) TV often didn't register a signal but I ignored that and fixed dish on first loudest screech, TV would then receive ok. I would have to avoid boat rocking when seeking sat but once TV was receiving and locked on any amount of rocking wouldn't affect reception. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by nb Innisfree

[blackrose]

19 hours ago, Loddon said:

Simple way

Disconnect the dish

Power up the receiver

Measure voltage at end of cable should be between 13 & 18v. DC

Try it on different channels as the voltage is used to switch polarization.

Be very very careful not to short screen to centre or you will destroy power supply in the receiver.

No voltage duff cable.

 

There is a good chance if you removed the dish from the cables with the sat box power connected you have fried it

 

 

Thanks for that tip. I always switch off the sat box power when I stop watching TV,  but I did disconnect the dish with power connected yesterday when I was moving it around and accidentally broke the connection. 

 

Anyway I moved the boat back to its original position today and got my signal back so fortunately no damage. 

19 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

I would recommend getting yourself a satellite finder (plenty on eBay as well as at retailers). Not only do they help you find the satellite much better and more accurately than the apps, but also they show without doubt whether or not you are getting power up to the dish.

 

 

Ok, I'll get one of them, that will help in future, thanks.

[blackrose]

17 hours ago, OldGoat said:

The best sat finder in the whole wide world (for ordinary folk)  is the combined TV & SAt single finder from Fringe electronics (I fiddled around for years with all sorts of other kit  - all were diabolical to useless...) Around £25 on ebay and slightly less from Amazon.

We use both satellite and terrestrial signals and it works fine for both.

 

So which one of these would be recommended to both check the connection to the sat box (or direct to TV if I'm using an antenna) and also find the signal?

 

http://www.fringeelectronics.co.uk/fringeleisure/page13.html

 

20 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

I would recommend getting yourself a satellite finder (plenty on eBay as well as at retailers). Not only do they help you find the satellite much better and more accurately than the apps, but also they show without doubt whether or not you are getting power up to the dish.

 

Also (in my view, of course) better than the apps - although only as long as the sun is shining - is my satellite sundial. If you are travelling it is ideal for ensuring that you moor at a spot where there is an opening through the vegetation or buildings to the satellite. Just hold the paper in front of you as you come in to the bank and stop when the arrow points to clear sky. 

Thanks, I'll print those out.

[OldGoat]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

So which one of these would be recommended to both check the connection to the sat box (or direct to TV if I'm using an antenna) and also find the signal?

 

http://www.fringeelectronics.co.uk/fringeleisure/page13.html

 

Seemples -

PRO TV & SAT SIGNAL FINDER (as listed on the web site)

If you connect it to the satellite box (or the TV if it has a sat port), it should light up with one bar if that cable is working (I've not tried it without the sat box being connected - can't see why you would want to do that)

 

Conversely I use the inbuilt battery when testing the TV aerial.

 

In operation the unit shrieks when it 'sees' a signal and more leds light up as the signal gets stronger. 
 

[blackrose]

18 hours ago, OldGoat said:

 

 

For the reported fault - I suggest looking at the cable ends. If the cable has been disturbed and mobed around, I find that the inner conductor core can get bent or moved around.

If you (or anyone) disconnects their antenna regularly (I always take mine down when cruising) it may be better to invest in UHF plugs and sockets which are designed to be disconnected regularly. CPC have them at reasonable prices.

 

I'd like to replace the F-type connectors to the LNB and to the sat box. I hate the things.

 

Would these be the ones I need?

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg-zn-6704/uhf-plug-pl-259-zn-id-9-2mm/dp/CN19892

 

[blackrose]

13 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Seemples -

PRO TV & SAT SIGNAL FINDER (as listed on the web site)

If you connect it to the satellite box (or the TV if it has a sat port), it should light up with one bar if that cable is working (I've not tried it without the sat box being connected - can't see why you would want to do that)

 

Conversely I use the inbuilt battery when testing the TV aerial.

 

In operation the unit shrieks when it 'sees' a signal and more leds light up as the signal gets stronger. 
 

Ordered, thanks.

[OldGoat]

For connectors I prefer these -

BNC Plug to F Type Socket Adaptor, Nickel Plated Zinc Body - 

RW1-035 ZINC

 

Part No CN1995

and PSG 08505 as a gender changer

 

Also I tend to but BNC cables made up, very flexible from CPC quite cheap. May not be the correct type attenuation wise, but hey, it works on my 60 footer. Proper WF sat cable is a bit stiff for boats.+

Edited February 2, 2020 by OldGoat
more info

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

For connectors I prefer these -

BNC Plug to F Type Socket Adaptor, Nickel Plated Zinc Body - 

RW1-035 ZINC

 

Part No CN1995

and PSG 08505 as a gender changer

 

Also I tend to but BNC cables made up, very flexible from CPC quite cheap. May not be the correct type attenuation wise, but hey, it works on my 60 footer. Proper WF sat cable is a bit stiff for boats.+

 

Thanks, but if I'm still having to use F-type connectors I probably wouldn't bother with adaptors

Edited February 2, 2020 by blackrose

[dor]

I use BNC connectors as it makes it very easy to swap in the sat-finder.  

I fit a plug as a blanking plug when dish is not in use, keeping it tucked under the cratch.

[blackrose]

51 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

For connectors I prefer these -

BNC Plug to F Type Socket Adaptor, Nickel Plated Zinc Body - 

RW1-035 ZINC

 

Part No CN1995

and PSG 08505 as a gender changer

 

 

 

Sorry I don't understand how these work? Do you screw the F-type connector to the back of the adapter? If so how does the adapter connect to the LNB?

 

[OldGoat]

13 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Sorry I don't understand how these work? Do you screw the F-type connector to the back of the adapter? If so how does the adapter connect to the LNB?

 

Apologies for the dealay My Management required my attendance for a late Luncheon....

 

To answer you need a CN15999 , "BNC socket to Ftype plug"

You screw the fplug end onto the LNB connector and leave it there and attach the cable to the other end, where you can connect and reconnect the cable easily as required

 

 

The whole process is a bit inelegant as the assemblies at either end stick out somewhat! The bonus, of course is that you can move equipment around easily....

 

[blackrose]

Great, thanks for explaining that. I'll get myself a few of those. Cheers