robtheplod Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Hi All I'm about to replace my water pump but as a newbie I'll be connecting to the existing pipes without changing the ends - not the best option but means I can get this done before I sort how to properly connect to the existing pipes. I'm pretty sure they are speedfit, but how do I know for sure? are there different type of speedfit pipe I should be aware of? A pic of my pips is below, is this enough to identify it or do I need codes off it etc - I'm at the boat this weekend so can look then? As suggested in another thread I hope to get clear reinforced flexible tubing and 2 x these (thanks to PD1964!) : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/John-Guest-Speedfit-Tube-To-Hose-Connector-15mm-Tube-OD-x-1-2-Hose-ID-NC448/302748305589, and I think I'm correct I'll also need https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Speedfit-JG-John-Guest-Pushfit-Push-Fit-15mm-Superseal-Inserts-Packs-of-5-STS15/272513369719 and a pipe cutter to go with them? (I'm an old school copper boy!) - I don't want to go cutting pipes until I know I can finish the job without last minute trips to the shops! thanks!!! Yes I know - I'll also be looking at that damp patch! Edited December 12, 2019 by robtheplod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) That is all Hep2o pipework, not Speedfix. It is compatible with the correct inserts to match the pipe in. Edited December 12, 2019 by Boater Sam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Hep2o as @Boater Sam says. The outside diameter of the pipe is 15mm, same as Speedfit. You can put Speedfit push fit fittings on Hep2o pipe just fine without inserts, provided the pipe has no scores, or damage to the outside. The inserts to go inside the pipe are a bit of a belt and braces thing. Chances are you won't need them and everything will be fine. The inserts are to suit a particular inside diameter of pipe and there may be a difference between Speedfit and Hep2o. I don't know. Hep2o changed its design completely at some point. I can't tell if these are old style, or new style Hep20. If it was me, I'd just push the Speedfit flexi connectors on the Hep2o pipe without an insert. jen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Is that a Jabsco pump? If so just get the same pump, the par max 2.9 is cheap and simple ....and easy to swap out. Just pull up the blue tab and the fitting pops out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevron Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Why not buy the same pump no messing about with pipes.the blue bit near the pipe on the pump is a quick release I think to detach pipes from pump without disturbing pipes. my pump does not need an accumulator in the system so I replaced pump with same pump.Also I replaced pipes near pump with the braided hoses to cut down vibration and noise? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted December 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Thanks all, seems these inserts are metal - i'll get a pack of these (says fits old and new style so covers all bases)... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wavin-Hep2O-pipe-sleeves-10mm-15mm-22mm-28mm-Inserts-Hep20-15-22-mm-SmartSleeve/390763569458?var=660207473724 Dr Bob, yes it is a Jabsco, but its not connected correctly - see other thread - really noisy as no flexible connections...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: I don't know. Hep2o changed its design completely at some point. I can't tell if these are old style, or new style Hep20. There are something like 4 or 5 styles of Hep2O from the very earliest to the very latest,I think. The very latest is entirely different to anything that went before, and might just as well be from a different supplier. It looks nothing like what is pictured. Most of what is pictured is from the previous generation, the type that has a green plastic grab ring with metal teeth inserted in it. This was dismantleable with a special tool. The one exception would appear to be the 90 degree bend not the one with the brass connector attached to the pump, but the one immediately next to it. I think that is one generation earlier, and will have the all metal grab ring that can only be removed by cutting either the ring or the pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, robtheplod said: Thanks all, seems these inserts are metal - i'll get a pack of these (says fits old and new style so covers all bases)... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wavin-Hep2O-pipe-sleeves-10mm-15mm-22mm-28mm-Inserts-Hep20-15-22-mm-SmartSleeve/390763569458?var=660207473724 Dr Bob, yes it is a Jabsco, but its not connected correctly - see other thread - really noisy as no flexible connections...... If you are absolutely set on having inserts, then that should work I reckon. Bit of FrankenPlumbing. Hep2o insert with Speedfit fitting! Jen Edited December 12, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, robtheplod said: Dr Bob, yes it is a Jabsco, but its not connected correctly - see other thread - really noisy as no flexible connections...... Yep. Never read that thread. Best of luck in sorting it. As others have said, don't make it too quiet so you know when you get a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevron Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 HOSE 15MM X ½" X 300MM (63404) View reviews (38) View all Q&A 10mm bore. Suitable for drinking water. EPDM rubber inner tube. Stainless steel braided hose. More Info View all: Unbranded Compression Hoses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted December 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: There are something like 4 or 5 styles of Hep2O from the very earliest to the very latest,I think. The very latest is entirely different to anything that went before, and might just as well be from a different supplier. It looks nothing like what is pictured. Most of what is pictured is from the previous generation, the type that has a green plastic grab ring with metal teeth inserted in it. This was dismantleable with a special tool. The one exception would appear to be the 90 degree bend not the one with the brass connector attached to the pump, but the one immediately next to it. I think that is one generation earlier, and will have the all metal grab ring that can only be removed by cutting either the ring or the pipe. why is nothing easy when it comes to plumbing.. maybe I need to try to identify further before buying anything..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, robtheplod said: Thanks all, seems these inserts are metal - i'll get a pack of these (says fits old and new style so covers all bases)... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wavin-Hep2O-pipe-sleeves-10mm-15mm-22mm-28mm-Inserts-Hep20-15-22-mm-SmartSleeve/390763569458?var=660207473724 Dr Bob, yes it is a Jabsco, but its not connected correctly - see other thread - really noisy as no flexible connections...... Noise is good! Tells you when it's working, and when it shouldn't be working. Opening a tap, pump runs, good. All taps closed, pump runs, bad. This is when you have a leak, the water pressure has dropped, because it's leaked out somewhere, the pump has run to rebuild the pressure, making more water leak out. Bod 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robtheplod Posted December 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bod said: Noise is good! Tells you when it's working, and when it shouldn't be working. Opening a tap, pump runs, good. All taps closed, pump runs, bad. This is when you have a leak, the water pressure has dropped, because it's leaked out somewhere, the pump has run to rebuild the pressure, making more water leak out. Bod I agree, but the pumps leaking and it sounds like someone is trying to drill into the boat when it runs.... just a tad quieter would be nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, robtheplod said: Thanks all, seems these inserts are metal - i'll get a pack of these (says fits old and new style so covers all bases)... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wavin-Hep2O-pipe-sleeves-10mm-15mm-22mm-28mm-Inserts-Hep20-15-22-mm-SmartSleeve/390763569458?var=660207473724 Dr Bob, yes it is a Jabsco, but its not connected correctly - see other thread - really noisy as no flexible connections...... If you buy a new one it will have rubber mountings on the feet, which will quieten the pump considerably and shouldn't present a problem to connect to the existing pipework. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 I'd use inserts especially on the hot water plastic pipes!!, and don't forget to switch the water pump off when you leave the boat unattended, plastic pipes have been known to get arthritis in the joints and come apart. I've sorted two boats that got flooded out when it happened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Be careful with the blue retainers on the pump fittings. They break very easily. Even so, one can usually jam the broken bits back in to fulfil their purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, robtheplod said: why is nothing easy when it comes to plumbing.. maybe I need to try to identify further before buying anything..... I don't think it particularly matters what the existing connectors are. All 15mm plastic pipe is pretty interchangeable in terms of going into (and staying in!) the connectors. What does vary with the pipe is the internal diameter, and thisaffects what inserts should be used. For example the latest style of JG Speedfit "Superseal" inserts are a perfect fit in JG Speedfit pipe, but will be loose in other pipe types, and far too tight a fit in others. From memory (but I may be wrong) Hep2O branded pipe will require that the JG inserts are hammered in, after which it is impossile to remove them. I agree with Bizz that it's a mistake to omit the inserts, particularly on hot pipes. But in terms of buying a new connector to fit existing pipe on its outside, they are all interchangeable, I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onewheeler Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 4 hours ago, alan_fincher said: From memory (but I may be wrong) Hep2O branded pipe will require that the JG inserts are hammered in, after which it is impossile to remove them. They are a perfect fit in old (i.e. 25+ y.o.) Hep2O pipe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Match the insert with the pipe, then no problems. All Hep2O fittings will interchange with any Hep2O pipe and Speedfit without problems. Stainless steel inserts for them all, plastic for Speedfit. The very early Hep2O were actually Bartol and brown, they will still fit new stuff. Early Hep20 and second generation and the brown Bartol had the stainless grab ring in, that's what you have I think. All are demountable by unscrewing. Then they were changed to a non demountable which need a push ring tool to remove, no nut. Later they have a plastic grab ring inside and are unscrewable again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: Hep2o as @Boater Sam says. The outside diameter of the pipe is 15mm, same as Speedfit. You can put Speedfit push fit fittings on Hep2o pipe just fine without inserts, provided the pipe has no scores, or damage to the outside. The inserts to go inside the pipe are a bit of a belt and braces thing. Chances are you won't need them and everything will be fine. The inserts are to suit a particular inside diameter of pipe and there may be a difference between Speedfit and Hep2o. I don't know. Hep2o changed its design completely at some point. I can't tell if these are old style, or new style Hep20. If it was me, I'd just push the Speedfit flexi connectors on the Hep2o pipe without an insert. jen Really? My understanding is that the ferrules keep the pipe round and are essential on any plastic push fit pipe. Push fit systems are designed to be fitted with ferrules so I don't understand why you would recommend not using them? I've used Speedfit ferrules on Hep - you shouldn't need to hammer in the superseal inserts if you use a smear of silicone grease., but putting fittings together without them at all is a mistake. On 15mm pipe you might get away without but why chance it? Edited December 13, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 19 hours ago, bizzard said: I'd use inserts especially on the hot water plastic pipes!!, and don't forget to switch the water pump off when you leave the boat unattended, plastic pipes have been known to get arthritis in the joints and come apart. I've sorted two boats that got flooded out when it happened. Usually that's because the pipes weren't pushed into the fittings properly in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, blackrose said: Really? My understanding is that the ferrules keep the pipe round and are essential on any plastic push fit pipe. Push fit systems are designed to be fitted with ferrules so I don't understand why you would recommend not using them? I've used Speedfit ferrules on Hep - you shouldn't need to hammer in the superseal inserts if you use a smear of silicone grease., but putting fittings together without them at all is a mistake. On 15mm pipe you might get away without but why chance it? IT is why I said chances are you won't need them. Not 100%. I didn't recommend not using them. I just said your chances of a leak without are low. In the OP's case, where he was mixing a pipe from one manufacturer with a fitting from another in a cold water feed, where of the two joints, one side is unpressurised, this is not a risky thing to do. I had never tried using speedfit ferrules on Hep2o pipe, so couldn't say if it would work or not. You have, so could. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, blackrose said: Usually that's because the pipes weren't pushed into the fittings properly in the first place. Can be, and under stress, because there so easy to fit many folk including plumbers just think they can just bung em in and without much support. The pipe lengths still need cutting to exact measurements, same as steel or copper pipe to fit exactly to the sockets without stress, but usually because its bendy folk tend to force them together if their measuring is not bang on. Edited December 13, 2019 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 Pipe manufactures, make inserts for a reason. Plastic pipe, now has such a weak wall, compared to copper, especially when warm, that extra support is needed, where the pipe could be under stress, due a combination of internal pressure pushing a joint apart, and external pressure of the joint trying to grip the pipe. If the pipe manufacture, recommends inserts, then it's foolish not to fit them! Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bod said: Pipe manufactures, make inserts for a reason. Plastic pipe, now has such a weak wall, compared to copper, especially when warm, that extra support is needed, where the pipe could be under stress, due a combination of internal pressure pushing a joint apart, and external pressure of the joint trying to grip the pipe. If the pipe manufacture, recommends inserts, then it's foolish not to fit them! Bod Indeed. If done properly, measured exactly and with lots of additional support especially on the longer runs, it is really no quicker to install than copper pipe and compression fittings in fact might take longer to fit because of the extra support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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