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Boating Newbie

Buying a new build from a start up company??

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Hi, So I have previously posted about how my partner and I are looking to buy a boat (hybrid or not still to be confirmed), we have looked at a few boat builders and they all seem to have really long waits for build slots. However, we have come across a fairly new company in Dunhampstead in the Midlands, they have only been going since March this year, but have built one boat which we managed to see and they aren't new to boat building, they have years of experience. My problem is the money, don't get me wrong, they are reasonable, but I'm wary of parting with that much money to a relatively new company. Am I being too cautious here (I've checked them out at Co House), or would others feel the same?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

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6 minutes ago, Boating Newbie said:

Hi, So I have previously posted about how my partner and I are looking to buy a boat (hybrid or not still to be confirmed), we have looked at a few boat builders and they all seem to have really long waits for build slots. However, we have come across a fairly new company in Dunhampstead in the Midlands, they have only been going since March this year, but have built one boat which we managed to see and they aren't new to boat building, they have years of experience. My problem is the money, don't get me wrong, they are reasonable, but I'm wary of parting with that much money to a relatively new company. Am I being too cautious here (I've checked them out at Co House), or would others feel the same?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

I'm very sorrý but unless you can get CAST IRON guarantees WALK. Most obvious solution is to pay ondelivery not before.

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11 minutes ago, Boating Newbie said:

Am I being too cautious here

No.

 

There are boat builders that go 'bump' every couple of years taking their customers pre-paid monies with them, they then rise as a Phoenix company and do the same again.

 

What payment terms are they looking for ?

 

Some boat builders (tends to be the smaller companies with no cash flow) tend to want stage payments, so you pay (say) 10% when the order the steel, 10% when they lay the base plate down, 20% when they start to fabricate etc etc .

 

If a company does go 'bump' you will have a huge job proving to the liquidators which bits of steel you have paid for - it could be that they have not paid their suppliers so the steel actually still belongs to the supplier.

 

One way for you to avoid these problems is for you to buy (pay for) the materials directly from the builders supplier and supplied in your name but delivered to the builder - in effect you are paying the builder for 'labour only' and if the worse happens you have all the purchase / invoices in your name.

 

Some companies will build a boat & take payment on final completion and a "signature of acceptance" from the customer.

 

Every company is a 'new company' at first, the thing is do you want to be their second customer ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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I think a new company or a long established company there is probably similar levels of risk with the amounts of money you are spending.

 

Assuming I'm looking at the website of the company the OP is asking about they are using a standard marine contact with stage payments backed by an insurance policy to cover the build in progress. The shell is coming from Tyler Wilson, a long established shell builder, and they are fitting out.

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4 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I think a new company or a long established company there is probably similar levels of risk with the amounts of money you are spending.

 

Assuming I'm looking at the website of the company the OP is asking about they are using a standard marine contact with stage payments backed by an insurance policy to cover the build in progress. The shell is coming from Tyler Wilson, a long established shell builder, and they are fitting out.

Ahhh - not a boat builder then.

 

Should be 'safer' for the bulk of the money.

Suggest the OP buys the shell from Tyler Wilson (hence they own it) the pay the stage payments.

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Ahhh - not a boat builder then.

 

Should be 'safer' for the bulk of the money.

Suggest the OP buys the shell from Tyler Wilson (hence they own it) the pay the stage payments.

Agreed. Decide on the style and spec and when Tyler Wilson have completed the shell pay them directly. You now own the boat. Make stage payments to the ‘builder’ and you then own the fitout too, to whatever stage it’s reached. 

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6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Agreed. Decide on the style and spec and when Tyler Wilson have completed the shell pay them directly. You now own the boat. Make stage payments to the ‘builder’ and you then own the fitout too, to whatever stage it’s reached. 

Agreed, and also get the ‘builder’ to state in writing the unique identifier on the shell (some form of shell serial number) of your property.  If during the build they ask you to pay upfront for any high value items (such as an inverter) get them to confirm in writing the item model & serial number and the fact that it is your property.  If you make stage payments you need a clear written statement as to what you now own.  

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There is a great deal to be said for buying a used (but nearly new) boat and spending the savings on the fit-out conversions you want, once you know what you can and cannot live with.

I would in general never buy a brand-new house, or even a brand-new car: my preference is to let some other mug find, and sort out, the teething troubles first.

  • Greenie 1

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18 hours ago, Rob-M said:

I think a new company or a long established company there is probably similar levels of risk with the amounts of money you are spending.

 

Assuming I'm looking at the website of the company the OP is asking about they are using a standard marine contact with stage payments backed by an insurance policy to cover the build in progress. The shell is coming from Tyler Wilson, a long established shell builder, and they are fitting out.

If you do agree to stage payments for the fit-out, make sure the work has been completed.  There have been cases of stage payments being made to a builder who hadn’t even bought the shell.

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27 minutes ago, dor said:

If you do agree to stage payments for the fit-out, make sure the work has been completed.  There have been cases of stage payments being made to a builder who hadn’t even bought the shell.

Monitor it regularly with attendance, and make sure no one else is making 'stage payments'. There has been more than a few instances where several people have been buying the same boat.

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1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

Monitor it regularly with attendance, and make sure no one else is making 'stage payments'. There has been more than a few instances where several people have been buying the same boat.

 

Or better still employ a surveyor to make regular checks on your behalf. That way the work can be checked for compliance with the RCD and quality rather than just checking that some work has been done.

 

Given the cost of a new boat it will be small beer and a lot of piece of mind.

  • Greenie 1

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On 12/09/2019 at 20:51, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Some boat builders (tends to be the smaller companies with no cash flow) tend to want stage payments, so you pay (say) 10% when the order the steel, 10% when they lay the base plate down, 20% when they start to fabricate etc etc .

 

 

Hi everyone, thanks for all of the advice, I did think it was common practice though to want stage payments, to protect both the builder and the buyer.  

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1 hour ago, Boating Newbie said:

 

Hi everyone, thanks for all of the advice, I did think it was common practice though to want stage payments, to protect both the builder and the buyer.  

 

Stage payments has been proven on a number of occasions to offer no protection to the buyer - there is no evidence that the boat is 'part owned' by you, in fact, there have been a number of examples of several people all 'owning' (paying stage payments) on the same hull.

 

That is why you should pay for the Hull from the builder and then pay the fit-out only stage payments so you have much less at risk.

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I personally wouldn't consider paying them anything until the boat is complete and ready for delivery. If theirs is a viable business they should be able to borrow the money from their own bank.

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