Bobbybass Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 Hi.. just gave my engine its first service. Was going to pump out the PRM 120 and fill with the same oil as the engine. Removing the gearbox dip stick I found it full of a red fluid..rather like auto gearbox fluid ,?. Is that correct..?. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bobbybass said: Hi.. just gave my engine its first service. Was going to pump out the PRM 120 and fill with the same oil as the engine. Removing the gearbox dip stick I found it full of a red fluid..rather like auto gearbox fluid ,?. Is that correct..?. Thanks. Yes, the PRM 120 uses ATF, not engine oil. However the PRM150 and above use engine oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 https://www.prm-newage.com/help-centre-marine From the above " A mechanical gearbox (PRM 60, 80, 90, 120 or 125) must use automatic transmission fluid (ATF) Dextron II or III" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bobbybass said: Hi.. just gave my engine its first service. Was going to pump out the PRM 120 and fill with the same oil as the engine. Removing the gearbox dip stick I found it full of a red fluid..rather like auto gearbox fluid ,?. Is that correct..?. Thanks. Auto gearbox fluid is correct for PRM mechanical boxes, 120, engine oil, non synthetic for hydraulic boxes 150 and up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Auto gearbox fluid is correct for PRM mechanical boxes, 120, engine oil, non synthetic for hydraulic boxes 150 and up. Yes, none of that sympathetic stuff in my 150. Stops the clutches clamping properly, according to the manufacturers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 That being the case .... With my previous larger PRM gearbox that took engine oil..I changed it at about 500 hours. As this is ATF does that mean less changes ?. After all...you very rarely change ATF fluid on a car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 15 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Auto gearbox fluid is correct for PRM mechanical boxes, 120, engine oil, non synthetic for hydraulic boxes 150 and up. That depend on which PRM120 manual you look at. My own clearly states engine oil, But then it is a 20 year gearbox. According to Newage they change the oil spec about 14 years back. Newage told me to remove all traces of engine oil before replacing with ep90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said: That depend on which PRM120 manual you look at. My own clearly states engine oil, But then it is a 20 year gearbox. According to Newage they change the oil spec about 14 years back. Newage told me to remove all traces of engine oil before replacing with ep90. EP90 - that is not ATF, it is at the viscous end of gear oil. I have never heard of PRM specifying gear oil, that is a Lister gearbox thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) Heck...now I'm confused.. Engine oil....ATF...now a Hypoid ??. Plus...I still don't know the change intervals.. The plot thickens.. ( the oil does anyway ?) Edited September 6, 2019 by Bobbybass Updated information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted September 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just spoke to Beta. It should be ONLY ....ATF Dextron 2 or 3. Service interval is up to you..but as it only holds 0.3 litre..it may as well be done every year. Thanks everyone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgreg Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said: That depend on which PRM120 manual you look at. My own clearly states engine oil, But then it is a 20 year gearbox. According to Newage they change the oil spec about 14 years back. Newage told me to remove all traces of engine oil before replacing with ep90. Indeed: I called PRM with this query many years ago and was advised to "put in whatever oil you put in your engine". I have continued to do this and 17 years on it's still going strong. I guess there must be a reason for the change in advice to ATF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 The usual reason for gear manufacturers to change spec to ATF is a temperature thing, ATF will not breakdown at extreme temperatures. We had this with Land Rover gearboxes, they went from gear oil to ATF many years ago to increase there life under extreme conditions. Do not use any EP or Hypoid oils in anything unless specifically told to, they dissolve certain bronze alloys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taslim Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Boater Sam said: they dissolve certain bronze alloys. Thank's for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Boater Sam said: The usual reason for gear manufacturers to change spec to ATF is a temperature thing, ATF will not breakdown at extreme temperatures. We had this with Land Rover gearboxes, they went from gear oil to ATF many years ago to increase there life under extreme conditions. Do not use any EP or Hypoid oils in anything unless specifically told to, they dissolve certain bronze alloys. And thinking further, all the PRM hydraulic gearboxes, 150 160 260 280 500 etc are recommended to have an oil cooler inline, Not so the mechanical ones. This could be why PRM changed the spec of the correct lubrication, perhaps they realised that they would run over a safe temperature for straight mineral oil. And synthetic as we have established causes clutch slip in these boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: EP90 - that is not ATF, it is at the viscous end of gear oil. I have never heard of PRM specifying gear oil, that is a Lister gearbox thing. That's what I was told at the time, I made a note in the manual, but then the lady I spoke to may have given me the wrong info. The gearbox has done over 10000 hours with ep90 with no problems, oil changed at the same time as the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2019 Report Share Posted September 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: And thinking further, all the PRM hydraulic gearboxes, 150 160 260 280 500 etc are recommended to have an oil cooler inline, Not so the mechanical ones. This could be why PRM changed the spec of the correct lubrication, perhaps they realised that they would run over a safe temperature for straight mineral oil. And synthetic as we have established causes clutch slip in these boxes. Interesting thought. I seem to recall reading that some bikes have had problems with wet clutches and synthetic oils, but can't remember the finer details now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcsyst Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 06/09/2019 at 18:16, nbfiresprite said: That's what I was told at the time, I made a note in the manual, but then the lady I spoke to may have given me the wrong info. The gearbox has done over 10000 hours with ep90 with no problems, oil changed at the same time as the engine. I had problems with clutch slip with ATF and experimented with various oils finally settling on Comma gear oil EP80W-90 GL-4 which gave the best performance and lowest noise (straight engine oil worked but made the gearbox noisy). Two years and 1000 hours later it's still fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 20, 2020 Report Share Posted August 20, 2020 Good to know, generally it is frowned on to use gear oil. Beware of hypoid though, there are bronze parts in the gearbox that will object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) On 06/09/2019 at 10:43, rgreg said: Indeed: I called PRM with this query many years ago and was advised to "put in whatever oil you put in your engine". I have continued to do this and 17 years on it's still going strong. I guess there must be a reason for the change in advice to ATF. I believe catastrophic failures, advise now is Dexron2 if that was previously used. I spoke to Newgate, no mention of flushing to remove engine oil. On 05/09/2019 at 17:36, Bobbybass said: Hi.. just gave my engine its first service. Was going to pump out the PRM 120 and fill with the same oil as the engine. Removing the gearbox dip stick I found it full of a red fluid..rather like auto gearbox fluid ,?. Is that correct..?. Thanks. Yes, Dextron2 is red. Automatic Transmission Fluid. Edited August 21, 2020 by LadyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) On 06/09/2019 at 08:25, Bobbybass said: That being the case .... With my previous larger PRM gearbox that took engine oil..I changed it at about 500 hours. As this is ATF does that mean less changes ?. After all...you very rarely change ATF fluid on a car... PRM120 takes .8l, and 5l costs £17.99 Take manufacturer's recommendation. Edited August 22, 2020 by LadyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) On 05/09/2019 at 17:36, Bobbybass said: Hi.. just gave my engine its first service. Was going to pump out the PRM 120 and fill with the same oil as the engine. Removing the gearbox dip stick I found it full of a red fluid..rather like auto gearbox fluid ,?. Is that correct..?. Thanks. Btw, I had the gearbox pumped out then the sump plug removed, it's magnetic, so if silver shards are seen, be worried, mine was just fine grey-black softish residue [after maybe 15 years, so no worries in spite of previous lack of maintenance. We removed .4L of grey fluid and put in .8l red Decxron2. It will be changed annually from now on, I have 4L left, 5 years supply. Edited August 23, 2020 by LadyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBDensie Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 From memory the manufacturer's recommendations for the PRM120 were changed a few years ago. When I bought my boat in 2006 engine oil was recommended and that is all I have ever used.. The gearbox oil is changed every 1000 hours and has always been completely clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 ATF has a better heat rating than engine oil, PRM120 will likely not have an oil cooler attached, so stay with Auto Transmission Fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Does a boat's gearbox get especially hot? It's not something I have ever noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said: Does a boat's gearbox get especially hot? It's not something I have ever noticed. Hydraulic ones will apart from Lister LH150 because they are pressurising oil all the time they are running in gear. That's why they tend to have oil coolers. Mechanical ones tend to use ribbed alloy cases to help dissipate the heat produced from friction and throwing oil about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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