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People's feelings about swearing, bullying etc are different it depends of their background etc. I believe that Daniel's aim is to make the site a good place for everyone and that the standards are those in which will allow everyone to feel comfortable. To me that means no swearing, no bullying etc, not denigrating a person, not being condescending etc. If you have to attack the person call them stupid or similar it is wrong. Attack the content, post what you think is correct if you think they have posted something that is factually incorrect or you believe in a different point of discussion. That way people who are what I believe some have called 'fluffy' will be comfortable. I suspect while they may not be as vocal as those that like to swear, bully, denigrate others etc they are actually in the majority. Maybe if it would not be acceptable language in the civil courts of the land it should not be acceptable here. Remember that someone who is meek or mild may not enter a discussion which is aggressive but they could have something valuable to say. So we should make the ethos one where they feel comfortable entering the discussion.

Trick or Treat?

You are incorrect in your speculation Mike. I know this for a fact - Lady M's resignation is exactly due to the reasons she explained in her post. You clearly don't know Lady M - she would never stand by decisions that she felt were wrong because of a misguided sense of loyalty. Never. Her integrity would never allow that. She's a massive loss to the forum but I understand totally her reasons for walking away and wish her all the best and thank her for all the work she's put in over the years. Edited to correct mistooks

An undoubtedly unpopular comment coming up. Reading this thread there are a lot of members who feel they know exactly how moderating should be done, but somehow aren't rushing to volunteer (with the honorable exception of Carlt of course).

I don't suppose you passed our son going the other way, did you Mike?

Spot on. Can't see it happening. Can see the existing inner circle clinging to power for all they can Prove me wrong!

A bit late to come back to this maybe, but asking for sympathy dealing with self inflicted problems isn't going to get much traction. Looking at your list, you've got: 10 messages and some PM's telling you stuff you already know which should qualify for a short polite cut and paste acknowledgement which includes a recognition that a more personalised answer would be better but is beyond the capacity of the Mods. Sorted. 3 apparently offering useful input. Focus on them. 6 pm's discussing process - having worked in central government it sounds familiar: the process is everything, the product a complete accident. Should be secondary. Pick 5 people, mods and others who have made proactively sensible suggestions, including some who will challenge you. Give then a week to revise Moderation. Get them together on Skype / Hangouts / whatever. Establish the rules of engagement on the call - no over-talking, no insults, stop speaking after 1 minute then resume if the chair allows it, majority vote wins. Accept compromise. Apply agreed and fully visible processes consistently. Review everything in 1 month, then 3, then 6. Prerequisites - all hatchets buried outside the door, 'senior manager' prepared to accept and support outcome.

On reflection I should have said: "The illusion of an orderly house will be the result." I used the word 'appearance' to indicate an apparently orderly house, not orderly under the surface. I also meant to say the other effect of the 'hard management' style Dan has adopted will be a draining away of financial contribution to CWF from the members. I've cancelled my own monthly direct debit as I disagree with the direction Dan is taking this place, and I suspect quite a few others here will have done the same if not already. Dan will end up paying for this place himself again I predict, as more and more paying members feel disenfranchised like me. I started a rather successful fundraising thread here a year or two ago which in the light of current management pronouncements I now rather regret.

Cheers LM for your brilliant modding, also whilst I'm at it, all that you do for boaters in and around London (and beyond) as well. Enjoy some time and space. Rob

Well it is a suggestion, but there are cases where you don't need to follow it, and it will save time, if you really want to be getting ahead for the minimum possible lock wheeling effort. Example: Boat with crew of three, arrives at bottom lock of (say) a 6 lock flight like Braunston and that lock is against them. (Having checked nothing coming down in next lock!), 2 of the crew start turning and working through that lock. Meanwhile 3rd crew member is cycling to next lock up, and (again checking ahead!) starts that one emptying in anticipation. They could now wait, but if they cycle up to the top of the flight, and encounter nothing coming down, and nobody waiting at, or even approaching the top lock, they can safely cycle back down, and set the 4th and 3rd locks emptying as they pass them. By that stage the boat will be near to lock 3 anyway, and there isn't a shred of danger of it not being clear of the 4th lock as well long before anything comes down. Hence with just one trip to the top, you can set half the flight up, without any fear of upsetting anyone. (Obviously only works at non-busy "out of season" times, and if you have spare crew available to be taking a bike ride. On a typical busy summer day, you will not cycle to the top, because you will quickly establish that someone is coming down!) My highly energetic son has pre-set large amounts of very much bigger flights such as Tardebigge in similar manner - if he cycles up 10 locks, and nobody is coming down any of those, he knows as he returns he is OK to set 5 ahead of where he last saw our boat , (leaving the last 5 he cycled past untouched, in case a boat coming the other way gets there first). We have never got caught out yet! However if there is only 2 of us, we'll generally not try clever tricks like this!

I'm not qualified to say with certainty but in my limited experience welding cable has a core identical to battery cable but the insulation is far more flexible and given it's intended use, probably far more durable too. I strongly recommend buying a terminal crimper from ebay and a stock of terminals so you can make up your own leads at will. I've always found it impossible to accurately predict the number, length and colour of all the cables you need until you get started on the work. Oh and a stock of heat shrink sleeving too. If you get both red and black you can use exclusively black cable. Shrink it on with judicious use of a blowlamp if you don't have a heat gun (or 240v power supply for it).

One lock ahead is far enough and even then one should look ahead.

Not unpopular with me, but inaccurate.

Without wanting to put words into peoples mouths, I would suggest that under the existing management style, multitude of rules and inappropriate& inconsistent application of the rules few will volunteer. I cannot imagine anyone volunteering if the forum continues to be run as it has been for the last 8 or 9 months. If there is an acceptance of the 'need for change', and this is shown by a moderation of the language used, the issuing of a new set of rules agreed to by a plebiscite (replacing the rules already in existence - not adding to them), and an acceptance that some of the existing moderators positions may need reviewed, then I feel there would be more than sufficient volunteers who would feel as if they actually had a 'stake in the future of the forum'. Wouldn't it be nice to see a new thread started - titled : "the administration will hold a plebiscite for the approval of constitutional reforms"

Remember the last batch of volunteers - applied and never even got a 'sorry you have not been successful this time' letter. If I remember correctly MtB was one of them.

Great thread, just finally caught up, we are also having problems with our fridge, though I think it is the thermostat and should be able to fix. Batteries have just been replaced, previous owner replaced 2 110ah batteries with 2 100ah batteries leaving a bank of 1x110ah plus two 100ah batteries. Which if I am correct would leave the 110ah attempting to charge the 100ah batteries. Central heating now being sorted, well next week. Some great advice on this thread, so a big thanks to MssMadMax, for starting it, and for forum members for their input. LED lights, as Max you have the long tubes, it may be worth buying a real of white 12v LED's such as this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122111108996you can cut the strip at selected intervals, fully waterproof and cheaper than buying individual bulbs, self adhesive, just a little bit of soldering to do. CPC do a 5 meter real for £20. From a consumption point of view you could also choose different amounts of LED's per meter, just to give you another option of course. I do realise from your previous posts you may not be the most technical person afloat, but in reality a simple job for the marina guys. You are doing excellent by the sounds of things, kept it up and the posts coming.. From another newcomer it really is a steep learning curve, but an enjoyable one at least, well sometimes anyway....

Apparently one way of telling that a company is in 'trouble' (or for sale) is to view the toilets. If they have been recently painted then 'there is trouble ahead' (or you can buy the business) Painting over all of the grime makes things look a lot better than they really are.

A friend of mine is a disabled boater and seeing this thread I thought I would ask him, what the rules were for getting a Disabled Badge and what the rules were as far as he knew them for the canals. There are three ways to get a disabled badge (Blue Badge) 1. To be in receipt of Disabled Living Allowance (DLA) at the highest mobility payment. 2. To be in receipt of Personal Independence Payment (PIP) again at the highest mobility payment. This is gradually replacing DLA. In both of the above to get the highest level of mobility payment the furthest that they can walk without walking becoming painful, bring on their chronic illness, breathlessness etc is less than 50 metres and whatever causes the problems must have lasted more than, he thinks, 12 months and be expected to last for 12 months. In both these cases any recipient of DLA or PIP with the higher mobility allowance is automatically entitled to a Blue Badge. 3. The third way if not in receipt of DLA or PIP is to undergo a medical to determine their ability to walk etc. The badges are issued by the local authority, county councils, the badge being limited to the period that PIP or DLA has been awarded for or 3 years at the maximum. The badge has to be reapplied for every three years and the whole degrading thing gone through again even if it is know the disability is permanent. The badge is personal to the person, and may be used on any vehicle in which they are travelling whether they are driving or not. That entitles them to park not only in disabled bays but also on single and double yellow lines that are not designated as no loading areas, two or three yellow bars on the curb. They can be fined if they cause an obstruction. The fine for misuse of a badge is a £1000 and the badge is normally taken away. There are some differences in Westminster and a couple of other London Boroughs. CRT management, in writing, told him that disabled moorings are reserved for disabled boaters and should not be used by non-disabled boaters. I asked him if he would ask a boater to move from a disabled mooring. He said no, he has been sworn at etc on the one occasion when he did the boater was apparently not disabled. He did report that incident to CRT, but heard nothing. So it seems as far as CRT management is concerned, well at least one, they are reserved to disabled boaters.

I don't think there will be any news. As time goes by it will gradually sink in the new policy is the hard management style. Posts deemed unsuitable will be deleted, and questions about why will also be deleted. Same applies to members deemed unsuitable. The appearance of an orderly house will be the result.

Of course I have looked at it. I've read quiet a lot of it. Everything is going swimmingly for the most part. The fact is though that certain (some, note, not all) posters were ejected from here for their abrasive style. Everyone has their own tolerance level regarding what is acceptable behaviour. For me the jury is still out as to how the situation will develop once CWDF becomes an irrelevance to the aggrieved. On that basis I think MTB has a point. Whether it is wellfounded remains to be seen. I have been here before and in that case both forums continue to flourish. That's how it was on here until it spilled over into other areas. It's difficult to ignore the fight going on in your favourite pub when you are trying to have a quiet drink.

Exactly. How does it hurt anyone? Let them carry on looking silly.

Nope, it casts a shadow of doubt over those who want it both ways. If you want to be in 1 place, get a mooring If you want to be all over the place don't. Claim to be going all over the place but actually staying in pretty much the same place, and say goodbye. The moment you start asking "how far do I need to move to be OK", you are on the slippery slope, because you are saying that you want to be in 1 place but move as little as you need to in order to get away with it.

I am sorry to see Lady Muck go too. Especially in these circumstances. I think I joined the forum in about 07 and if I remember rightly LM was a moderator then Now that means that, given the the way the mods workload is described by FadeToScarlet in his post 112, that the pressure on the mods has just increased again. So the forum has had a description of the workload on the mods closely followed by a description of the effect of that workload. I suggest that all you armchair experts who are so good at oh so politely insisting that you know exactly what is required from the mods, and exactly how they should acheive that, and by when it should be achieved, but have not actually tried to moderate CWDF so in reality have only a vague idea of what it is like..... .....just step back a bit and have a think about how having to read your constant demands, combined with having to deal with all the shit emanating from Thunderbox, really affects people, when you go on and on and on and.... With the best will in the world you might say your motives are good and no doubt you firmly believe that. I believe firmly that...but you are not bloody helping

And STILL this is trotted out. If the ongoing and extensive discussions about how to salvage the forums haven't yet reached the point where the team have realised that this policy ABOVE ALL OTHERS is the problem, then the team has collectively lost the plot. Whilst a little time to fix all the things that were done that shouldn't have been done isn't unreasonable, working out which policies are a total disaster isn't rocket science. This one needs to be dropped, and dropped today. Not a discreet "don't mention it again and don't enforce it", but a definitive statement that the rule is being dropped, and that it is acceptable to criticise moderation decisions provided this is done respectfully. In my view, any moderator who wishes to cling on to this very silly rule should do the right thing, and resign by lunchtime.

I wish that I could post a spirited rebuttal of this post, but sadly I can't. Whilst there have been some encouraging signs over the past day or so, I fear that it is too little and too late. We have various promises of "jam tomorrow", with bans reviewed and the like, but the expected timescales don't seem to recognise that urgent action is needed. If it takes a month to review the bans and some are lifted, then to what end? Who will be left for the prodigals to talk to? However, worse than the delay in reviewing past mistakes is the evidence that the same mistakes continue to be made. There is an absolute, if unsustainable, belief from "above" that the current strategy is correct. That means that those who dare say that "the management" are wrong in their approach are still being banned from posting, on the grounds that their behaviour is "disruptive". Where can it lead? Perhaps there are some who imagine that they will be happier when the forum shrinks to a tiny number of users who never disrupt, never argue the point, and all agree with each other. Perhaps they won't notice that the "characters" who added life to the forum have followed the trolls out of the door. Perhaps they will congratulate themselves that nobody has any strong opinions any more, and it is a peaceful place, because it is no longer the go to place for people to discuss canals. I notice, increasingly that those whose contributions I value (which includes a good number of people that are WRONG on every conceivable subject) have departed, either because they have been banned, or because they just can't be bothered here any more. Will CWDF capture my attention if Nigel, Tony, Carl, Nick and the like who one can debate with have gone? I rather doubt it, and I will probably gravitate to places where one can debate. Now, I don't do flounces, or threatened flounces. I hold no high opinion of my own value to a forum. So, those who don't want me to go can say nowt, I'm not fishing! Those who want to see the back of me, I can offer little to. I'm not about to leave, although I will be posting elsewhere, so I may post less. Of course, I know nothing of my future, as it is apparent that others are still being banned for daring to question whether enough is being done to turn the forum round, and this could of course be my last post before the banhammer strikes. If it does, then so be it. It will be sad, but slightly less so than I once thought. So, eyeing the prospect that I could become persona non grata, and on the off chance that I don't get to say so again, it was fun for quite a while, it's been great debating with many of you, and I look forward to doing so in the future in the best canals discussion forum on the net (identity still very much open to debate, but I do hope it is here) I could rattle on further, but I do not think that the management will read my words. Perhaps they should refer to the words of Oliver Cromwell on 20th April 1653

These courses are not just about learning how to "drive" the boat, I've never met anyone who has done one and not learned something. Yes you can pick things up as go go along, but it's easy to develop "blind spots" and bad habits. As for hire boaters - considering the mayhem and sheer disregard, or ignorance of, etiquette and regulations I've seen on the canals in the past year or two I think there's a good case for some form of compulsory training. Completely impractical of course.

You've lost all sense of reality Daniel, you're still pronouncing "what shall be" in the face of all the interesting characters, knowlegable experts and those with any sense of self worth leaving in droves. Your petty rules are insulting, your "do as you're told" attitude is, I'm afraid to say, the source of hilarity amongst anyone with their own brain. Carry on though, the rules even before it all went tits up only served those with the greatest vocabulary and will power, enabling only them to circumvent your silly rules to be rude and insulting. Your only hope is to abandon all your ridiculous rules, go away and don't look for a year. I won't hold my breath, I don't need to: Thunderboat is where all the characters are. Posters at the forefront of legal dispute, experts in all fields are signing up in droves. It's an equitable and pleasant place to communicate where one's peers keep order. Compare to this dull grey place with it's power mad owner and thought police style overseers? This place will shrivel and die and good job too. When the busiest site only allows a chosen section of the community it serves to participate it's on a hiding to nothing. I could wish you luck, but I wouldn't mean it.

I have 'reported' this asking for my original thread to be re-opened in order that the vast amount of useful legal information is not lost.

Possibly but people will believe what they're told to believe. It's funny how when a man clonks the lock entrance it's down to the wind, the bywash, something in their eye, etc. etc. but when a woman does the same, it's down to poor spatial awareness. I find it eternally surprising just how many women 'don't like steering' but a man saying that would be a rarity. We play out the gender roles which have been drummed into us since birth.

Based on almost 50 years of cycling on UK and European roads, I think there's a substantial minority of drivers who see cyclists as an easy target for whatever crap is going on in their own lives. They justify it in all kinds of ways, but it's basically bullying of people they see as even more disempowered than themselves. Over the years I've seen cyclists hated because they're poor, wealthy, slow, quick, badly dressed, sportingly attired, old, young, hard to see and lit up like a Christmas tree. In the end one has to conclude that the problem isn't with the cyclist, but in the driver's head.