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Boat Monitoring System

308Win

By 308Win
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308Win Gongoozler

308Win

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Hi everyone,

 

I recently had a flooded engine compartment (fortunately no major damage) from a leaky weed hatch seal and when I approached my insurance company they said had it reached the alternator or battery bank I would not have been covered.

 

As a student studying an engineering degree I want to come up with a solution to this and thought why not expand it to monitor other systems like the battery, shore power or even security, smoke/fire warnings etc. but my worry in considering the costs of R&D would be "Is this even a real problem?".

 

I'd be really interested to hear of boaters' worries on the water, be it security, batteries discharging, shore power failure, flooding in the engine bay (from rainwater or leaky prop seal)? Or is this merely taken as a risk of boating?

 

If anyone has had a major insurance claim I would like to hear about the circumstances so as to know whether a monitoring system could have alerted and possibly prevented it. I would also like to understand the human cost of a claim like being unable to live on your boat, dry dock costs and just how awkward (or otherwise) it proved.

 

I'd be really interested to hear what everyone thinks, be it pleasure boaters, liveaboard canal boats, hire fleet managers etc. as it will help me make a decision about whether I pursue the prototype to commercial launch.

 

Many thanks in advance for all your help.biggrin.png

 

Chris

 

 

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Chalky Experienced

Chalky

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This has turned up several times on the forum. Any boat monitor has very specific needs that are very different from a house or car alarm - e.g. it may have to be left for months with no mains connection / engine running to charge the batteries and still work perfectly when required. You're looking at pa quiescent currents etc. Communications are also an issue - you can't guarantee a mobile connection. Several people on the forum have made their own, mine is PIC based and uses a modified mobile phone for comms. There are already commercially produced devices available on the market you'd have to compete with these. Design and build your own - it'll form an interesting challenge and possibly a good final year project.

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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Posted (edited)

I thought these types of monitors were already on the market?


Don't bother with that! Make me a tilt alarm instead that hoots whenever I catch the bow under a lock gate, ground on a cill, or catch the side of a lock! Pretty please!

 

I already have two of those tilt sensors. They're called the semicircular canals of the inner ear.

 

I can't help thinking some canal boaters don't realise that their boats are supposed to tilt (though ideally not when caught on a lock cill). What happens when you go on rivers or any waters with small waves?

Edited by blackrose
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308Win Gongoozler

308Win

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I assumed these were on the market as well but there aren't any which cater for a variety of sensor suites. The plan was to have a touch screen central control panel, central processor with 3G, Wifi, SD card slot and serial port as well for connectivity and then a variety of different sensors such as fire, smoke, water, battery, shore power etc which can be expanded as required by the individual.

 

I understand the difficulties with signal having lived on the cut and cruised the Cambridgeshire rivers, hence we were going to allow users to define which PAYG sim card they use for best performance in a given area allied to an additional high gain aerial. I am also considering a twin port GSM slot although there are sim cards out there (data only) which cover all netowrks and connect to the strongest signal. I already have a geolocation cross platform smartphone app which I can adapt to give geofencing and location information as well if required. We would be looking on the top end system to have a video camera (low light and daylight) to record any activity on the boat when the 'security' system is active.

 

I did look at PLC systems but this is too expensive and ultimately very user unfriendly. Modern electronic circuitry can provide far greater flexibility and is much cheaper for mass production. We currently calculate a drain of about 0.5W on any battery so a small solar panel would easily be able to keep whichever the system was connected to topped up (there would be an onboard battery in case the main battery was disconnected and it would let you know).

 

We could probably make the unit cheaper by removing the touch screen and having a mobile app to conduct all settings and alterations to notifications etc. but it's whether there would be a market for this. Current back of the (big) fag packet production costs are circa £250-£300 (not sale price). The ability to have something keep a watch on your boat's vitals while you are away from it and to warn you if it takes on water, the batteries get too low, or even if you have a break in would seem like a good idea but it's whether he boating community would pay for something like this and find it useful. Would you pay for a service which stopped a minor annoyance becoming a potential insurance claim and associated b@ll ache or are the risks of boat ownership just accepted as part of life's rich pageant?

 

As for 7.62x51 NATO - headspace and case rupture comes to mind. Chambers cut loose enough for 7.62 can vary headspace and jump massively which can overpressure and affect accuracy especially at longer ranges (900x and 1000x). Jus'sayin'... biggrin.png

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Robbo Veteran II

Robbo

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Posted

 

We could probably make the unit cheaper by removing the touch screen and having a mobile app to conduct all settings and alterations to notifications etc. but it's whether there would be a market for this. Current back of the (big) fag packet production costs are circa £250-£300 (not sale price). The ability to have something keep a watch on your boat's vitals while you are away from it and to warn you if it takes on water, the batteries get too low, or even if you have a break in would seem like a good idea but it's whether he boating community would pay for something like this and find it useful. Would you pay for a service which stopped a minor annoyance becoming a potential insurance claim and associated b@ll ache or are the risks of boat ownership just accepted as part of life's rich pageant?

 

What you are proposing isn't new and is already out there and all for the different types of customer from the "I just want it too txt me if a the bilge pump goes and to turn the heater on via txt" people, to the I want a fully blown everything automated and everything electrical all centrally controlled using some logic. I'm looking at the Empirbus NXT system for when I re-wire my boat.

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Chalky Experienced

Chalky

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I did look at PLC systems but this is too expensive and ultimately very user unfriendly. Modern electronic circuitry can provide far greater flexibility and is much cheaper for mass production. We currently calculate a drain of about 0.5W on any battery so a small solar panel would easily be able to keep whichever the system was connected to topped up (there would be an onboard battery in case the main battery was disconnected and it would let you know).

 

 

 

0.5W!!!! So on a winters day I have to have several hundred pounds of solar panel to overcome the self discharge of the batteries and power the boat monitor. (If I want to steal it I'd have to place a tarpaulin over the solar for 2 days to flatten the batteries...)

 

An electronic unit on a typical modern car draws about 200ua quiescent, about 0.0024W. You're several orders of magnitude out! Look at the use cases in detail, not all boats have solar panels, mains hookups etc

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308Win Gongoozler

308Win

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Have a look at www.boatwarden.com

 

Thanks for that link. I'd not seen this system on the market before and looks like they have all the functionality sewn up as well as only a single payment (other than a PAYG sim) rather than a subscription model. Oh well, it was a nice idea while it lasted...

 

Chalky, thanks for the pointers on power consumption. I think the drawing board beckons and if I can't offer something better or better value than BoatWarden there's probably little point in going ahead with the R&D.

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308Win Gongoozler

308Win

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Win308 - get a couple more posts and you can receive Private Messages.

 

13 thou difference in H/S if I recall

 

If you've only got a 15 thou jump to the lands of the of the barrel that's too close for comfort for me unsure.png Handloads are probably the way to go...

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Bobbybass Experienced

Bobbybass

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You did ask for peoples 'feelings' so here are mine :

 

I made a unit using a wireless house alarm..and then purchasing extra transmitter modules which I inserted into 'shop made' smoke detectors...and flood detectors...

It triggered a very old model Nokia phone..and I could 'listen in' for the sound of the alarms or intruders.

 

Away I went...was enjoying my day...taking a long bus trip..and some numpty..hit my boat hard and triggered it...(although it was quite tolerant to that)

 

So I rushed back...over an dhour of panicing...to find all was OK.

 

I then thought..I really don't want this.

I don't want to go out...and panic if it goes off.

I don't want the ring of my phone striking fear into me...

It would be no use if the fire sensor went off while I was out..or the bilge flooded.

 

This is about boating...looking at lovely fields and enjoying life..

If I want clever security systems...and technology...I could live in a house and lock myself in.

 

So...I stopped setting it...and moved on...and was much happier.

 

That...was my feelings..

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smileypete Veteran II

smileypete

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Posted (edited)

 

Or lack of power. There's no point having a top notch bilge pump if it runs the batteries down and stops working.

 

It is a slim possibility but not such a likely one as having no pump in the first place! =)

 

Most problems are caused by relatively small leaks, not catastrophic failures. At 2.5A and 40lpm, a typical bilge pump will shift about 100,000 litres before flattening a fully charged leisure batt.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Surely a far better and simpler solution to your problem is to fit weed hatch seals that work, and check their condition each time you have take it off to to unhook a bladeful.

 

My other thought is the weedhatch shouldn't do this in the first place. Is the seal above water level? And assuming it is, does it have a baffle that alighns with the hole in the uxter plate when the hatch is in position, to stop water splashing against the underside of the hatch?

 

MtB

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Biggles Veteran

Biggles

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I have 2 separate systems on my boat. One for security and CCTV and one for remote control of things like heating refrigeration and inverter.

 

It's nice they are separate and in the main they are petty reliable. The security system monitors bilge intrusion inc CCTV , gas leak and smoke, and the remote control on another module. This does need 2 SIM cards, one in each system but it keeps each system independent.

 

I am on the Cambridgeshire waterways and have many ideas how this could be made into a comprehensive system.

 

I do have 500w of solar which keeps the whole lot running even in winter.

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