Help - I think my Calorifier is a goner

[Martin Megson]

Hi,

Looking for advice as I have found m calorifier has started leaking. The leak is not at any of the pipe unions and appears to be coming from a split in the insulation. Of course it is at the back of the calorifier where I can't see. The first picture is of the clalorifier and the second is a closeup of a split which has appeared in the insulation. The split is trickling hot water and my water pump keeps starting for a few seconds every few minutes.

 

I don't know if these units repairable by soldering or some sort of sealant or if I should look to replace the unit. I'm a bit wary of repair as the system must be pressurised when hot. Thank fully the unit is in the engine room so most of the water has gone into the engine bilge. Any advice welcome.

 

 

[nb Innisfree]

Is it a proper marine calorifier or a standard domestic one?

[guelrose]

I have previously experienced the same problem.. Chances are that the calorifier is 'pin holed' and is not repairable.

[Nightwatch]

I have previously experienced the same problem.. Chances are that the calorifier is 'pin holed' and is not repairable.

Sad but probably true.

[Martin Megson]

Is it a proper marine calorifier or a standard domestic one?

 

Sorry I don't know.

 

I have previously experienced the same problem.. Chances are that the calorifier is 'pin holed' and is not repairable.

 

To be honest thats what I thought - I was just hoping someone may have a cheap fix. Anyone know when Midland Chandlers are having their next 20% off day

[frangar]

Just to add to the fun.....

 

You might be lucky and find one with the same pipe positions.....but dont count on it!......

 

Had the same happen to my proper marine rated one.....they just seem to get to an age then split

 

Sorry to be bearer of bad news...

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[O'Mali]

I would be tempted to try to repair depending on what you find when you cut the insulation away.

 

If its just a "pin hole" this is how I would go about repairing it...

 

Thoroughly clean away the foam from the affected area.

 

Get a, say 2/3 inch square bit of copper/stainless or mild steel and form it to the same radius or contour of the cylinder.

 

Rough up both surfaces and apply lots of a very good sealant and press them to together until the sealant oozes out evenly alround.

 

Leave that as is for 24hrs

 

Next day cut away as little of the insulation as possible around the tank so you can fit 2off large jubilee clips around the tank and over the plate.

 

Then all you have to do is test it, if it's ok, replace the foam from a can and knife back.

 

You should also have a pressure relief valve on there some where.

[jelunga]

Just to add to the fun.....

 

You might be lucky and find one with the same pipe positions.....but dont count on it!......

 

Had the same happen to my proper marine rated one.....they just seem to get to an age then split

 

Sorry to be bearer of bad news...

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Ours with the same colour insulation did just that in April. Had to get a new one from Midland Swindlers. Total cost to fit by a boatyard about £400. New one has a temp adjuster on the hot water outlet which I cannot see the point of, and an immersion 1kw which is fab. Now on mains hook up can get hot water without running engine or splogger.

[alan_fincher]

New one has a temp adjuster on the hot water outlet which I cannot see the point of.................

The water in an engine heated calorifier can easily reach the thermostat temperature of the engine - often over 80 degrees centigrade.

 

If the skin tank is less than adequate, it can go higher than that - maybe getting towards boiling point.

 

With a calorifier that doesn't have a thermostatic mixer valve fitted, you risk water coming out of taps or shower heads that can scald and remove skin.

 

OK, some showers incorporate a thermostatic mixer valve, but it is unlikely your sink and washbasin taps will.

 

The best solution is to ensure what is actually coming from the tank is not so hot it can cause injury - that's what the bit you can't seethe point of achieves.

[n.b.Goldie]

A local boat called Water Snail had a similar problem a while ago. The owner took the calorifier to our local blacksmiths called Charlie Head who trades in Tavistock Street, Bletchley, Milton Keynes and they brazed a plate over the hole. AFAIK it is still going strong.

 

Charlie Heads will make pretty much anything out of metal and are renowned for their skills in welding aluminium. When I worked for Mission Motorcycles we took cracked crankcases and blocks to them and they always came through for us.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[Bobbybass]

If it was me.....I'd find a way of repairing it...

I'd either cut back lots of insulation..and then clean it off and solder a copper patch (copper thin sheet from Ebay)...or:

 

Seven years ago...a friend turned up at my party ..in his old petrol bus..

The fuel tank started leaking...and he didn't know what to do...so I said...clean it off...and then put cooking foil over the hole and fibreglass resin it. Then...add another layer of foil..and fibreglass it...and then keep going..gradually spreading out from the split...

 

I said..."that will get you home "

 

Now...seven years later...he still hasn't changed the tank !!

[stagedamager]

Charles head are fantastic and an excellent stockholders. I bought all my steel for BCN1645's rudder from them, very reasonably priced. Would recommend them definitely, and only 5 mins from Fenny Stratford lock

 

 

Dan

[jelunga]

The water in an engine heated calorifier can easily reach the thermostat temperature of the engine - often over 80 degrees centigrade.

 

If the skin tank is less than adequate, it can go higher than that - maybe getting towards boiling point.

 

With a calorifier that doesn't have a thermostatic mixer valve fitted, you risk water coming out of taps or shower heads that can scald and remove skin.

 

OK, some showers incorporate a thermostatic mixer valve, but it is unlikely your sink and washbasin taps will.

 

The best solution is to ensure what is actually coming from the tank is not so hot it can cause injury - that's what the bit you can't seethe point of achieves.

Alan,

If it were thermostatic I coukd see the point, but it isnt. Just proportionalky mixes the hot avd cld. So if the "hot" water is not that hot it will add more cold

[nb Innisfree]

 

 

Seven years ago...a friend turned up at my party ..in his old petrol bus..

The fuel tank started leaking...and he didn't know what to do...so I said...clean it off...and then put cooking foil over the hole and fibreglass resin it. Then...add another layer of foil..and fibreglass it...and then keep going..gradually spreading out from the split...

 

I said..."that will get you home "

 

Now...seven years later...he still hasn't changed the tank !!

 

Reminds me of the time in the early 70s and I was returning to my Morris 1000 at the end of the working day and as I approached from the rear I saw petrol suddenly start to gush from the bottom of the fuel tank. Quick sprint over and put my finger over the hole and with someones help managed to get a container and catch what was left. What was weird was the that it started to leak as I was watching but even weirder was the perfectly round hole it leaked from, just as if it had been stamped out with perfect round edges, no corrosion and road dirt up to the edges and no sign whatsoever of the cause or origin. Very strange.

 

Another odd occurence at that time was over a period of two weeks whilst my wife driving to work in the same car and two other cars she had the bonnet fly up in three separate incidents, in each case they bypassed the main catch and the emergency catch. Never did figure out what was all about.

Edited November 14, 2012 by nb Innisfree

[steelaway]

I would certainly try and repair it, although I could not see my leak.

If you are going to (TRY!!) to get it replaced by your insurance cover insist that was frost damaged - it wont be covered by any other fault.

Been there - done that - fortunately after the frosts of December 2010

 

Alex

 

 

Edited November 14, 2012 by steelaway

[nb Innisfree]

Alan,

If it were thermostatic I coukd see the point, but it isnt. Just proportionalky mixes the hot avd cld. So if the "hot" water is not that hot it will add more cold

 

No adjusting knob?

[jelunga]

No adjusting knob?

Yes but the knob just adjusts the quantity of the mix not the final output temp. I. E. just the ratio of hot to cold without referebce to the output temperature.

[alan_fincher]

Alan,

If it were thermostatic I coukd see the point, but it isnt. Just proportionalky mixes the hot avd cld. So if the "hot" water is not that hot it will add more cold

 

No adjusting knob?

 

Yes but the knob just adjusts the quantity of the mix not the final output temp. I. E. just the ratio of hot to cold without referebce to the output temperature.

 

I assumed it was like this one (Surecal/Surejust), particularly as a quick squint at Midland Chandlers seems to say that is mostly, if not exclusively what they sell.

 

This one is definitely thermostatic.

 

No chance you have a broken one ?

 

 

EDITED TO ADD SURECAL DETAILS:

 

Surecal Brochre

 

Thermostatic mixing valve which is adjustable from 45 C to 65 C.

Edited November 14, 2012 by alan_fincher

[nb Innisfree]

Can't see anyone would manufacture one without t/static control, it would be pointless, I agree with Alan and suggest it is faulty.

[MtB]

Hi,

Looking for advice as I have found m calorifier has started leaking. The leak is not at any of the pipe unions and appears to be coming from a split in the insulation. Of course it is at the back of the calorifier where I can't see. The first picture is of the clalorifier and the second is a closeup of a split which has appeared in the insulation. The split is trickling hot water and my water pump keeps starting for a few seconds every few minutes.

 

I don't know if these units repairable by soldering or some sort of sealant or if I should look to replace the unit. I'm a bit wary of repair as the system must be pressurised when hot. Thank fully the unit is in the engine room so most of the water has gone into the engine bilge. Any advice welcome.

 

This is a common problem in houses with mains pressure copper cylinders (to the point where they are now generally considered unfit for purpose), and also in boats judging by the number of threads on here about it.

 

Mainly caused, in my personal opinion, by work-hardening of the copper as a result of no effectively working expansion vessel on the system.

 

I'd suggest an easy temporary fix. Cut off the insulation until you find the leak then solder a copper patch over it as others have suggested. A better fix would be to braze the patch on. But if you have access to brazing expertise, then the hole itself can probably be brazed over directly without the copper patch.

 

Best to fit an expansion vessel though, or the problem will re-surface in a different place pretty quickly.

 

MtB

[Martin Megson]

This is a common problem in houses with mains pressure copper cylinders (to the point where they are now generally considered unfit for purpose), and also in boats judging by the number of threads on here about it.

 

Mainly caused, in my personal opinion, by work-hardening of the copper as a result of no effectively working expansion vessel on the system.

 

I'd suggest an easy temporary fix. Cut off the insulation until you find the leak then solder a copper patch over it as others have suggested. A better fix would be to braze the patch on. But if you have access to brazing expertise, then the hole itself can probably be brazed over directly without the copper patch.

 

Best to fit an expansion vessel though, or the problem will re-surface in a different place pretty quickly.

 

MtB

 

Thanks Mike - I take it from your moniker this is your area of expertise. I'll have a closer look today to see the size of the problem.

 

I'm a bit confused about the expansion vessel as there is a pressure relief valve fitted which seems to work freely. Or is that the tank is constantly stressed by being held just below the relief pressure level ?

 

A local boat called Water Snail had a similar problem a while ago. The owner took the calorifier to our local blacksmiths called Charlie Head who trades in Tavistock Street, Bletchley, Milton Keynes and they brazed a plate over the hole. AFAIK it is still going strong.

 

Charlie Heads will make pretty much anything out of metal and are renowned for their skills in welding aluminium. When I worked for Mission Motorcycles we took cracked crankcases and blocks to them and they always came through for us.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

Thanks Dichdabbler,

 

Would you believe I'm just up the GU at Yardley Gobion on my way to visit a friend in MK. I can't sort it myself I'll certainly try this guy.

[Boat&Bikes]

I would certainly try and repair it, although I could not see my leak.

If you are going to (TRY!!) to get it replaced by your insurance cover insist that was frost damaged - it wont be covered by any other fault.

Been there - done that - fortunately after the frosts of December 2010

 

Alex

 

 

Would that not be fraud?

[Martin Megson]

It would be fraud and I would like to make it clear that nothing I have posted suggested I would even consider it which I would not. It would be interesting to see how one explains that a fully insulated tank has been frost damaged while the unlagged pipes survived :-)

[mrsmelly]

It would be fraud and I would like to make it clear that nothing I have posted suggested I would even consider it which I would not. It would be interesting to see how one explains that a fully insulated tank has been frost damaged while the unlagged pipes survived :-)

 

Yeah, especialy as we havnt had anything remotely like cold enough weather this year yet.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

It would be fraud and I would like to make it clear that nothing I have posted suggested I would even consider it which I would not. It would be interesting to see how one explains that a fully insulated tank has been frost damaged while the unlagged pipes survived :-)

Because the pipes flexed an 18" disc of ice in a copper cylinder didn't .

 

Edit

I know of 3 others

Edited November 15, 2012 by ditchcrawler