questions about owning a canal boat

[TinaC]

Hi

 

I have been canal boating with my family and friends for a number of years and we thoroughly enjoy it and will continue to go every year. I have noticed that you can buy a small canal boat for quite a reasonable price (under £10,000) and my sister and I are interested in buying one so that we can use between the family but also rent out so that it covers the running/maintenence costs.

 

I have spent hours researching on the internet and understand that you firstly find a mooring and then buy the boat, I also have details of the licensing and insurance requirements. This seems straight forward enough, but when looking for a mooring do we need permission from the marina to rent the boat first or are there any laws/regulations we need to be aware of before we go ahead and advertise it? Also, does it need to be a residential mooring and are there any companies that would rent your boat out for you like a letting agent for houses (I live in Essex).

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone has.

[the grinch]

you would require a multi user or hire boat licence (and the permission of the mooring owner in many cases) to operate a hire boat you will get grief from BW / EA (dependant on location of boat) if they find you hiring out on a pleasure licence

[dor]

I think you would struggle to find a narrowboat for under £10,000 that was good enough and suitablew for hiring. Even a small one.

[Lady Muck]

Read this http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/do...at_for_hire.pdf

[Athy]

Welcome, Tina. Private hiring is not an easy option. If you enjoy boating, grit your teeth and resolve to spend ten grand (for which you can get a smallish, nicish, elderly narrowboat which floats and goes) for your own pleasure. Shared between two or more people the costs would not be too frightening!

Keep us informed of your progress.

[mayalld]

Hi

 

I have been canal boating with my family and friends for a number of years and we thoroughly enjoy it and will continue to go every year. I have noticed that you can buy a small canal boat for quite a reasonable price (under £10,000) and my sister and I are interested in buying one so that we can use between the family but also rent out so that it covers the running/maintenence costs.

 

I have spent hours researching on the internet and understand that you firstly find a mooring and then buy the boat, I also have details of the licensing and insurance requirements. This seems straight forward enough, but when looking for a mooring do we need permission from the marina to rent the boat first or are there any laws/regulations we need to be aware of before we go ahead and advertise it? Also, does it need to be a residential mooring and are there any companies that would rent your boat out for you like a letting agent for houses (I live in Essex).

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone has.

 

Advice?

 

Forget it.

 

Hiring out your boats requires different licences, insurance, proof that you have the necessary infrastructure to support the whole operation.

 

There is also no way whatsoever that you are going to get a boat that you can rent out for 10 grand.

[gaggle]

Would a marina welcome a boat that cost £10 grand , i met a fella coming out of a marina who had been told he could only pay to moor overnight in the marina if he hid it out of view at the very back , it was a new boat but still in its primer.

[Teakbank12]

Hi

 

I have been canal boating with my family and friends for a number of years and we thoroughly enjoy it and will continue to go every year. I have noticed that you can buy a small canal boat for quite a reasonable price (under £10,000) and my sister and I are interested in buying one so that we can use between the family but also rent out so that it covers the running/maintenence costs.

 

I have spent hours researching on the internet and understand that you firstly find a mooring and then buy the boat, I also have details of the licensing and insurance requirements. This seems straight forward enough, but when looking for a mooring do we need permission from the marina to rent the boat first or are there any laws/regulations we need to be aware of before we go ahead and advertise it? Also, does it need to be a residential mooring and are there any companies that would rent your boat out for you like a letting agent for houses (I live in Essex).

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone has.

 

My opinion is if there are a few of you regularly hiring over a number of years then maybe you should look at Ownerships.

Buy one share or more in a given boat to use between you.

[Naughty Cal]

When people hire a boat they expect it to be something with a little quality. A 10k narrowboat isnt going to give that.

 

If there are a few of you to share the costs and use the boat at your pleasure then a 10k boat should cost too much to run when the costs are split between all of you.

 

I would forget the hire idea.

[magpie patrick]

Would a marina welcome a boat that cost £10 grand , i met a fella coming out of a marina who had been told he could only pay to moor overnight in the marina if he hid it out of view at the very back , it was a new boat but still in its primer.

 

Saul Marina will let you in so long as you have a licence, BSC and insurance. however, mooring in a marina is a significant proportion of the boat's value if the boat is worth 10k

 

And Tina, I'd agree with all the others, forget hiring it. The regulations are complex and expensive to comply with and you will be entering into a contract that makes you liable in the event that the boat breaks down or if anything else goes wrong with it.

[bottle]

Hi Tina

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

As the others have said, forget the hiring not only is the licence more than for private use, the insurance will be high, the boat has to be kept to a higher regulation level (Boat Safety Scheme for Non Private boats).

 

I doubt any marina will let you hire your boat out from there marina, if they did it would be for a cut of the 'profits'.

 

As for hiring out a £10,000 boat, just look at the ex-hire boats for sale, after many years of usage they still sell in the region of £30,000+.

[WotEver]

Keith, without trawling through the non-private BSS details to look for differences, can you preci what's different to the private regs?

 

Ta,

Tony

[bottle]

Tony

 

Sorry, not ever read the whole of the non-private.

 

I do know from previous questions to this forum that they are more stringent though.

[TinaC]

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to give your advice. I would like to explain my idea a little better....

 

Boating has been something i have grown up with and enjoy very much and whilst the idea of cheap holidays is appealing my personal interest is on the business side. I have close family who are not only passionate about all things boating, but have the time and various skills that would be beneficial. My dad is fully competent in the maintenece and mechanical side, my sister is studying for her degree in business and tourism and my mum and partner are also involved.

 

I fully appreciate that there is a lot of red tape to get through and i dont expect it to be a big money maker (if at all, at first) so my question really is not about if i can manage this - i know we could, its more around whether its possible for this to be a business that you can start from the bottom and will a marina accomodate me?

 

I know that £10,000 is not a lot in comparison to many boats ive seen so im not looking at the luxury end of the market with a 50+foot boat that rents out for £900+ a week, im thinking of a 30-35ft 4 berth boat. I havent viewed any in person yet and based on comments i have seen i could be being naive, but in the pictures ive seen they certainly dont look like something you would be asked to hide at the back! My thoughts are that a smaller boat would interest a couple, perhaps 2 couples, or a small family looking for a reasonably priced holiday that offers something different to a week in Spain. In light of the current economic climate this is a growing market as more people are holidaying in Britain in the last year and with this in mind im thinking of people who are looking for something smaller and cheaper who are prepared to sacrifice a little of the luxury and space for the price and experience. Obviously in an ideal world i would have a beautiful huge 70ft 5* boat with all the luxuries but its not really an option for me now!........(maybe my second boat!).

 

Once again thanks for all your advice, i really am listening to what people say but i just cant let the thought of hard work put me off! I would welcome any further thoughts anyone has and in particular if anyone rents out just one boat or has started a business like this, successfully or otherwise. Ive seen a few on the internet so either there is something i dont know (like do they own the marina?) or it could be possible....?

 

Thanks again, Tina

[Smelly]

I've never seen a 35ft hire boat... I wonder whether the diminutive size might put potential customers off.

[RLWP]

Ive seen a few on the internet so either there is something i dont know (like do they own the marina?) or it could be possible....?

 

Thanks again, Tina

 

Owning a marina would be a definate advantage. You will have to pay for a commercial license, an appropriate safety certificate and commercial insurance. BW will insist that you are operating from an appropriate base - somewhere with parking for clients, safe areas to hand over boats, proper rubbish and sewage disposal facilities - and that you have competent and appropriate hand-over processes for your clients.

 

ABC have a 47' boat here: Weaver which is what you would be competing with. This is many times better presented than a £10,000 boat.

 

If you are really serious, do your sums, visit a lot of boats in brokerages and give British Waterways a call. If all you can afford to start this business is £10,000 for a boat then I'm afraid it is very unlikely to succeed.

 

Richard

 

But then, what do I know...

 

I've never seen a 35ft hire boat... I wonder whether the diminutive size might put potential customers off.

 

Ashby have a boat Badger which is about that size.

 

Richard

[stewey]

I've never seen a 35ft hire boat... I wonder whether the diminutive size might put potential customers off.

The Canal Cruising Company at Stone has two 34 foot boats, Rosemary and Angela:

 

http://www.canalcruising.co.uk/3-berth-can...at-rosemary.php

 

Stewey

[Lady Muck]

I havent viewed any in person yet

Do this and then you'll realise why they are only £10k. There are some horrors in the brokerages, they aren't always honest in the adverts. A 10k nb is about as cheap as they come and will probably need alot of work to pass a normal boat safety cert. never mind a hire boat one. And then theres the overplating....

[bottle]

My thoughts are that a smaller boat would interest a couple, perhaps 2 couples, or a small family looking for a reasonably priced holiday that offers something different to a week in Spain. In light of the current economic climate this is a growing market as more people are holidaying in Britain in the last year and with this in mind im thinking of people who are looking for something smaller and cheaper who are prepared to sacrifice a little of the luxury and space for the price and experience.

 

TinaC

 

To just answer this one piece, I hired a 35' from Alvechurch as my very first hire boat, many years ago with my wife and young daughter, we never hired that small again, just to small.

 

In light of the current economic climate people are/maybe staying here this year but next year they will be abroad again, just look at the weather we have had, two weeks of summer, when the kids were at school.

 

Another thing in the last few years many of the hire companies have been taken over and are now part of the ABC group.

 

I believe (possibly) the only way forward is to hit a niche market but what that niche is, sorry do not know.

 

As I said before, look at the ex-hire boats that are for sale, the companies believe them to be not suitable for hire and they are in the region of £30,000.

 

Good luck

[Naughty Cal]

I think you need to visit some brokers and look at the 10k boats then visit a hire yard and look at the standard of the craft they turn out. A 10k boat isnt going to be suitable as a hire craft and 30-35ft is far too small.

[RLWP]

Heading mildly off-topic, here are the BSS items for hire boats: Section 10 PDF

 

The way I'm reading it, the guidance on hull openings is mandatory, so for a hire boat all openings must be 250mm above water level. Am I reading that right?

 

Richard

[WotEver]

Heading mildly off-topic, here are the BSS items for hire boats: Section 10 PDF

 

The way I'm reading it, the guidance on hull openings is mandatory, so for a hire boat all openings must be 250mm above water level. Am I reading that right?

 

Richard

 

Yes and no. The actual wording is "lowest point of hull opening positioned greater than 250mm above normal laden waterline or is watertight up to 250mm"

 

So they can be below 250mm as long as the internal fitments are watertight to 250mm above waterline and not push-fit. From this I assume they mean plastic welded fitments.

 

T

Edited August 6, 2009 by WotEver

[RLWP]

Yes and no. The actual wording is "lowest point of hull opening positioned greater than 250mm above normal laden waterline or is watertight up to 250mm"

 

So they can be below 250mm as long as the internal fitments are watertight to 250mm above waterline and not push-fit. From this I assume they mean plastic welded fitments.

 

T

 

 

Yebbut, section 10 is advisory for private boats and mandatory for hire boats. So a boat built as a private boat with, say, an engine room air intake 9" above water would fail section 10 if used as a hire boat.

 

It looks like it is the same for glass panels too.

 

Richard

 

What about deck drains?

[RichardH]

Owning a marina would be a definate advantage. You will have to pay for a commercial license, an appropriate safety certificate and commercial insurance. BW will insist that you are operating from an appropriate base - somewhere with parking for clients, safe areas to hand over boats, proper rubbish and sewage disposal facilities - and that you have competent and appropriate hand-over processes for your clients.

 

ABC have a 47' boat here: Weaver which is what you would be competing with. This is many times better presented than a £10,000 boat.

 

If you are really serious, do your sums, visit a lot of boats in brokerages and give British Waterways a call. If all you can afford to start this business is £10,000 for a boat then I'm afraid it is very unlikely to succeed.

 

Richard

 

But then, what do I know...

 

 

 

Ashby have a boat Badger which is about that size.

 

Richard

 

And we've got a 32footer which is doing great as a 2 berth short break boat

[RLWP]

And we've got a 32footer which is doing great as a 2 berth short break boat

 

Bought for £10,000 ?

 

Richard

 

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