alum batteries

[jenlyn]

Been reading up on this stuff for a while. I have a couple of duff 110's.

If you hear a big bang, and see a mushroom cloud from southern gu, it's me.

How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

Here is a free gift to all of you and all the world. Read carefully and follow up on all the links and you'll know as much as I do. Then go fool around with the stuff and see what happens. As a favor, please let me know what you discover.

As far as the lead acid batteries go, they can be a pain. But I am researching the possibility of converting lead acid batteries to alkaline batteries. I had a semi-genius friend once give me this information but have yet to see it anywhere else in public domain.

My friend claimed that you could take a weak lead acid battery, one that was still able to be charged but whose lifecycle was nearly finished and convert it to an alkaline battery by dumping out the battery fluid and replacing it with a mix of water and alum. Alum is sold in the super market spice section for making homemade pickles, it makes them crisp. It is sooooooooo cheap. And soooooooo safe, you can eat this stuff, okay? I don't recommend eating it because of the aluminum connection to Alzheimer's disease.

It is sodium aluminum silicate, chemically speaking. Also goes by sodium aluminosilicate, aluminium sodium silicate; sodium silicoaluminate; silicic acid, etc. For accuracy use the proper catalog numbers. CAS # 1344-00-9, GB 12493-90(02.002); INS 554; GRAS (GRAS means Generally Recognized As Safe) FDA 182.2727, (1994) If you want more complete chemical info, everything possible to know about this substance, you can download it here:

PDF: www.chem.unep.ch/irptc/sids/oecdsids/Silicates.pdf

I experimented with old batteries and had two successes and two failures. The successes were total successes and the failures total failures. I used 4oz of alum to 1/2gal of water. You just replace the fluid, recharge the battery and off you go. The successful batteries seemed to be more powerful than the original, however I have no data. The best one was destroyed in a vehicle fire. It has been over 10 years since I did those experiments and I am getting ready to try again.

The advantages of the alum battery are many.

- the battery fluid is non corrosive - the battery gas is not explosive - the battery can be discharged more deeply - the battery can be charged faster - the battery will last longer - there is not corrosion of the terminals - it is extremely cheap - more power in cold weather

I will be trying this experiment with some better measuring tools. I want to go to a battery shop and try this on numerous old junk batteries. My feeling is at this point, if the battery is too dead to take any charge at all, it is too far gone to recover with this method.

This process has never been commercialized that I know of except by one company in China. From what I can read, I think that their battery is pretty much the same as this homemade solution, but all worked out scientifically. It is extremely simple. I'd love to have some assistance from more knowledgeable folks on how and why it works to be able to perfect it.

When you realize how cheap this is to do, you'll really be doing some head scratching. You can have a renewed battery for the price of a few bottles of alum.

Another related bit of information is this. There was a company set up in China called Guineng who was manufacturing and selling a new type of battery. They indicated on their web site that it was a silicate salt battery. I'm pretty convinced it was of this type I am experimenting with. Well, they had a good site with lots of info. But there has been no success on my part in contacting them in any way. I've tried like the dickens to get ahold of this company but have never had an email response, cannot get through by phone, just impossible so far. They were reported to be selling their battery to E-Max scooters in Germany. The bikes are being sold down under and the first reports on performance are coming in. But here it is, take it and see what you can do with it.

I am going to try to be working out the correct ratio of alum to water myself in the future for my new used battery bank.

[Ray T]

Seems a bit like this to me:

 

Kaboom

[keble]

Sounds fascinating. I love disruptive technology, like the oil filter shown on Tomorrow's World aeons ago that cleaned the oil beautifully - it never saw the light of day.

I wish you luck!

[TheBiscuits]

You should join the ACC ... Association of Crazy Chemists.

 

[StephenA]

Seems to be pretty much a cut and paste from a website post from 2007 :

 

 

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html

Edited July 24, 2015 by StephenA

[Phil Ambrose]

There is stuff out there on the net on this very subject and when I read it I vowed to give it a go but as some years have passed since I had a suitable battery I never got the chance to try it. Kicking myself as I have just replaced my domestics and weighed in the old ones which would have been suitable.

Phil

[jenlyn]

Seems to be pretty much a cut and paste from a website post from 2007 :

 

 

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/how_to_convert_a_lead_acid_bat.html

Yep, cut and paste, hence my stating "reading up".

[churchward]

Fascinating. I have a couple of tired 110amp lead acid batteries in the garage I took off the boat. I am tempted to give it a go just to see what happens.

[John V]

Hum,,,,,I have a pair of 150 Ah's that I have just managed to resuscitate after going totally flat, well past their sell by date.....I'm very tempted to have a go.

I will do some reading up....I wonder what the charging requirements are,

[dmr]

Isn't alum something to do with Garlic?

Why not just get some vindaloo curry paste and put that in, it might turn old lead acid batteries into really high powered batteries!

 

...........Dave

[by'eck]

Isn't alum something to do with Garlic?

Why not just get some vindaloo curry paste and put that in, it might turn old lead acid batteries into really high powered batteries!

 

...........Dave

 

Now that appeals why stop at vindaloo though - surely tindaloo or phall would be better

[Peter X]

Isn't alum something to do with Garlic?

Why not just get some vindaloo curry paste and put that in, it might turn old lead acid batteries into really high powered batteries!

 

...........Dave

You're thinking of allium, the genus to which onions and garlic belong.

 

A quick google showed me there's a lot of material out there about the idea, but is it the blind leading the blind?

Is there a chemistry graduate on the forum, or someone who has actually done it successfully themselves, who can tell us whether the lead-alum battery is an Internet myth or a genuine possibility?

[dmr]

You're thinking of allium, the genus to which onions and garlic belong.

 

A quick google showed me there's a lot of material out there about the idea, but is it the blind leading the blind?

Is there a chemistry graduate on the forum, or someone who has actually done it successfully themselves, who can tell us whether the lead-alum battery is an Internet myth or a genuine possibility?

 

I did realise that, but had to find a humorous link to the curry powder concept (plus I'd had a few pints).

Its interesting that we have to use distilled water to top up our batteries, and Trojan publish a list of impurities, the destructive effect they have, and the very small concentrations needed to cause that damage, yet the www is full of stories about putting aspirin and all sorts of other stuff into batteries to revive them.

Still I really hope this idea works, When I was younger electricity, electronics and home computing was really exciting stuff, with a touch of magic and anarchy, but now everything is so regulated, sensible and boring, so I'm with Keble on this (not heard of disruptive technology before).

I've just got a new set of Trojans so not going to try it on mine just yet!

 

............Dave

[Guest]

I have some 110 lesiure batteries which have become tired. Might have a play sometime. Nothing ventured...

[MtB]

Is it April 1st?

[Guest]

I smell...

[peterboat]

I smell...

 

Had a look on tinternet and plenty on there that say otherwise for the cost worth a play especially as I have 2 volt cells

 

Peter

[John V]

Had a look on tinternet and plenty on there that say otherwise for the cost worth a play especially as I have 2 volt cells

 

Peter

 

That's my take on it as well Peter.......the link gives a lot of food for thought, there is either something in it or there are a lot of very good tall tale tellers on that thread.

I have (as I said earlier) a pair of very tired and aged 150 Ah but they are lead calcium but I do have a small, tired battery off my generator that is struggling and is due for replacement. I might have a go with that later on in the year (too busy at moment getting the yoghurt pot ready for a cruise)

[by'eck]

Had a look on tinternet and plenty on there that say otherwise for the cost worth a play especially as I have 2 volt cells

 

Peter

 

And throw in some high Scoville chillies as well - what harm can it do

[peterboat]

 

That's my take on it as well Peter.......the link gives a lot of food for thought, there is either something in it or there are a lot of very good tall tale tellers on that thread.

I have (as I said earlier) a pair of very tired and aged 150 Ah but they are lead calcium but I do have a small, tired battery off my generator that is struggling and is due for replacement. I might have a go with that later on in the year (too busy at moment getting the yoghurt pot ready for a cruise)

My starter battery is getting tired I also have a Jag battery at work 95ah so I will buy some alum and have a go with the Jag battery I will wash it out with bi carb first flush it out and fingers crossed

One of my 2 volt cell banks is 10 years old so at some point if it works on the starter battery it might work on them big saving

 

Peter

[OldGoat]

It's chalk and cheese, totally different chemistry:-

 

A lead aid battery uses lead for both plates

The dielectric (?) is an strong acid at high strength

the acid takes part in the reaction to produce electricity.

 

An alkaline battery uses different metals in the plates

The dielectric is an alkali

and is not altered by the reaction

The metals are compounds of nickel and iron or cadmium

 

So my A level chemistry fills me with a lot of scepticism

[peterboat]

It's chalk and cheese, totally different chemistry:-

 

A lead aid battery uses lead for both plates

The dielectric (?) is an strong acid at high strength

the acid takes part in the reaction to produce electricity.

 

An alkaline battery uses different metals in the plates

The dielectric is an alkali

and is not altered by the reaction

The metals are compounds of nickel and iron or cadmium

 

So my A level chemistry fills me with a lot of scepticism

Its cost 10 squids for the alum I will let you know if it works an interesting play which may or may not work

 

Peter

[MtB]

 

So my A level chemistry fills me with a lot of scepticism

 

 

My common sense tells me it's a load of old b*ll*cks believed only by the foolish and gullible.

 

If it actually works, does anyone here really believe this would not have been widely recognised long ago and be in general use by now?

 

If it worked, even a bit, commercial interests would have taken the chance to sell "battery revival kits" in their thousands at half or a quarter the price of a new battery and make a load of money in the process. The Trades Descriptions Act stops this happening because, l suggest, the process doesn't work.

[StephenA]

 

 

My common sense tells me it's a load of old b*ll*cks believed only by the foolish and gullible.

 

If it actually works, does anyone here really believe this would not have been widely recognised long ago and be in general use by now?

 

If it worked, even a bit, commercial interests would have taken the chance to sell "battery revival kits" in their thousands at half or a quarter the price of a new battery and make a load of money in the process. The Trades Descriptions Act stops this happening because, l suggest, the process doesn't work.

 

I agree - if Lead Alum batteries worked as well as ( or people claim better than ) Lead Acid then they'd be commercially available. The fact that they aren't suggests that they don't.

[dmr]

But surely a big multinational company has purchased the patents to hush up this revolutionary invention.

Luckily the original poster (on some other forum) had recently inherited various secret notebooks from a deceased uncle who used to work for the secret service investigating soviet technology.

You may change some of the details but the basic story always applies in these cases!

 

...........Dave