Steel Stove recommendations

[peterboat]

23 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm now more confused than when I started.  I'll try to be more specific:

 

Can anyone recommend a stove which is:

 

Steel (not cast iron)

4.5kw-5kw output

Has a seperate door for the ash-pan and the firebox

Has decent controls (not a crummy slider), probably and wheel (or something I haven't considered).

Has seperate high and low controls.

Is built to a high quality from a tried and tested maker.

 

I'm not bothered about DEFRA approved or airwash features etc.  My stove is to keep me warm, not to look nice. I don't care if it has no glass window at all.

 

If there's no such thing then fine but please don't recommend me cast iron stoves, no matter how good you think they are.  Maybe my boat vibrates more than yours.  If I decide to get a cast iron stove again, it will be a squirrel.

A boatman fits everything but the separate door for the ash pan, I had one in the boat it was great moved it to Jaynes house still great, stays in overnight no probs, cheap cheerful and works whats not to like and its steel and Eddie who makes them is a great guy ?

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

A boatman fits everything but the separate door for the ash pan, I had one in the boat it was great moved it to Jaynes house still great, stays in overnight no probs, cheap cheerful and works whats not to like and its steel and Eddie who makes them is a great guy ?

Mtbs review here:-

 

Maybe worth speaking to Eddie to discuss the possibility of adding an extra door and other mods if required, at extra cost, of course.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by rusty69

[doratheexplorer]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Mtbs review here:-

 

 

Thanks.  I've some experience with boatman stoves.  I'd agree with everything in the review.  They're ok, cheap and cheerful but just aren't in the same class as a properly decent stove.  As Mike said, it's possible to keep a squirrel in for up to 48 hours.  That's very useful for me because I have a cat.  It means if I'm away for the night (say a friday), I can bank up the stove on the friday morning and the boat is still warm when I return on saturday night.  And my cat is happy.  The ashpan on the boatman is crap.  The seperate door of the ashpan is VERY useful, why don't all stoves have this?  It means I can crack the door open when the stove has been lit and it picks up so much quicker.  I can also empty the ash without opening the firebox, or add fuel without opening the ash compartment.

 

For clarity - the list of requirements I put earlier is the bare minimum I'm looking for, if your suggestion doesn't tick all these boxes then I won't choose it.  I'll just get another squirrel.  That ticks all but 1 box anyway, and I'm used to it and it will fit perfectly without altering the hearth or flue.   I'm not expecting anything suitable costing less than £600-£700 but I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Thanks.  I've some experience with boatman stoves.  I'd agree with everything in the review.  They're ok, cheap and cheerful but just aren't in the same class as a properly decent stove.  As Mike said, it's possible to keep a squirrel in for up to 48 hours.  That's very useful for me because I have a cat.  It means if I'm away for the night (say a friday), I can bank up the stove on the friday morning and the boat is still warm when I return on saturday night.  And my cat is happy.  The ashpan on the boatman is crap.  The seperate door of the ashpan is VERY useful, why don't all stoves have this?  It means I can crack the door open when the stove has been lit and it picks up so much quicker.  I can also empty the ash without opening the firebox, or add fuel without opening the ash compartment.

 

For clarity - the list of requirements I put earlier is the bare minimum I'm looking for, if your suggestion doesn't tick all these boxes then I won't choose it.  I'll just get another squirrel.  That ticks all but 1 box anyway, and I'm used to it and it will fit perfectly without altering the hearth or flue.   I'm not expecting anything suitable costing less than £600-£700 but I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

Let me know if you find one that ticks all your boxes. I suspect you won't find one without have one fabricated to your requirements. I don't know what that would cost, but suspect if someone like Eddie from Northern fabrications could be persuaded to produce such a beast,they would fly off the shelf.

 

I would buy one (or even two).

 

ETA. I wonder if a steel squirrel would "stay in" as well as a cast iron one.

Edited January 28, 2019 by rusty69

[rusty69]

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

If I decide to get a cast iron stove again, it will be a squirrel.

Dora. At the risk of getting a virtual slap, can I ask where your crack is? If it is in the top plate, as is quite common, it may be worth considering getting a replacement top plate. I know this answer doesn't tick all your boxes, so feel free to slap away.

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

At the risk of getting a virtual slap, can I ask where your crack is? 

No.... must resist... must not...

[dmr]

I think the separate ash pan door is now difficult to find as its a potential safety hazard; if it gets left open the fire can burn very hot.

 

We have the Charnwood C4 which is a more recent version of the Country 4. It looks good, nicer than the boatman, but then costs a LOT more than the Boatman. It has an optional stand to raise it up a bit which makes it a lot nicer, also a single push-pull knob to control it, this works well but without a separate air-wash control the glass does get mucky. Its a very shallow stove so if its in the middle of the cabin rather than up the corner then I does not intrude too much, the squirrel is very deep.

 

C4 makes a fair bit of heat and stays in ok for a short night but would probably struggle with a long night (early bed and sleep in the next morning).

 

............Dave

[rusty69]

27 minutes ago, dmr said:

I think the separate ash pan door is now difficult to find as its a potential safety hazard; if it gets left open the fire can burn very hot.

Morso started fitting a safety device to prevent this on the squirrel. I removed it from our one. 

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Morso started fitting a safety device to prevent this on the squirrel. I removed it from our one. 

I reckon that was more like Morso trying to prevent folk overheating and cracking their dodgy rip off money stoves and trying to claim, rather than a safety device. 

[rusty69]

43 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I reckon that was more like Morso trying to prevent folk overheating and cracking their dodgy rip off money stoves and trying to claim, rather than a safety device. 

You could be right. They also installed a thick washer to limit the extent of opening the bottom vent. Again removed on ours. 

 

An idea for rusty's newly invented Frankensquirrel (patpending) :

 

Take the good bits off your existing squirrel, both doors, grate, legs, ashpan, bars etc and  give to a local welder to make  a steel box that suits parts.

 

Voila one Frankensquirrel. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by rusty69

[Mad Harold]

10 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm now more confused than when I started.  I'll try to be more specific:

 

Can anyone recommend a stove which is:

 

Steel (not cast iron)

4.5kw-5kw output

Has a seperate door for the ash-pan and the firebox

Has decent controls (not a crummy slider), probably and wheel (or something I haven't considered).

Has seperate high and low controls.

Is built to a high quality from a tried and tested maker.

 

I'm not bothered about DEFRA approved or airwash features etc.  My stove is to keep me warm, not to look nice. I don't care if it has no glass window at all.

 

If there's no such thing then fine but please don't recommend me cast iron stoves, no matter how good you think they are.  Maybe my boat vibrates more than yours.  If I decide to get a cast iron stove again, it will be a squirrel.

Don't think engine vibration has much to do with a stove cracking.It will be caused by metal fatigue caused by constant expansion and contraction.The thinner the metal (weather steel or cast iron) will fatigue quicker than thicker metal.

As an example,jet turbine engines are given a life not on the hours they have run,but on the number of cycles they have clocked up.The cycles being the number of times they have been started up and shut down.The number of cycles is determined by accelerated testing to find it's fatigue limit.

It is likely that stove cracking will be caused by lots of lighting up and shutting down,so a stove burning constantly should last longer than one that is frequently shut down.

Can't add anything useful about specific stoves,but mine is an Evergreen,pretty thick cast iron,has two air wheels and two air wash wheels,is rated at 4.9kw but don't know how old it is (it came with the boat) and I have had the boat two years.It is perfectly satisfactory.

[Tonka]

None of the aircraft I work on have multi fuel fires. But maybe it is because of the vibration

[doratheexplorer]

13 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Dora. At the risk of getting a virtual slap, can I ask where your crack is? If it is in the top plate, as is quite common, it may be worth considering getting a replacement top plate. I know this answer doesn't tick all your boxes, so feel free to slap away.

*cracks (plural)

[doratheexplorer]

6 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Don't think engine vibration has much to do with a stove cracking.It will be caused by metal fatigue caused by constant expansion and contraction.The thinner the metal (weather steel or cast iron) will fatigue quicker than thicker metal.

As an example,jet turbine engines are given a life not on the hours they have run,but on the number of cycles they have clocked up.The cycles being the number of times they have been started up and shut down.The number of cycles is determined by accelerated testing to find it's fatigue limit.

It is likely that stove cracking will be caused by lots of lighting up and shutting down,so a stove burning constantly should last longer than one that is frequently shut down.

Can't add anything useful about specific stoves,but mine is an Evergreen,pretty thick cast iron,has two air wheels and two air wash wheels,is rated at 4.9kw but don't know how old it is (it came with the boat) and I have had the boat two years.It is perfectly satisfactory.

My Squirrel is 16 years old as far as I know.  Are you saying, I'd be needing a new stove by now even if it was steel?  In that case, I may as well get another Squirrel because I can't see any suggestion on here which looks any better.

[rusty69]

6 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

It is likely that stove cracking will be caused by lots of lighting up and shutting down,so a stove burning constantly should last longer than one that is frequently shut down.

Interesting. Our squirrel died after 19 years from new. I would light the fire and let it go out overnight everyday. It failed through internal fatigued bolt securing joints (or WotEver they are called)  which caused the backplate to separate from the rest of the stove. No other cracks. 

 

I expect the new one will outlast me, as i have changed my routine and now keep the fire in 24/7.

 

Another slap Dora (off topic) 

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Interesting. Our squirrel died after 19 years from new. I would light the fire and let it go out overnight everyday. It failed through internal fatigued bolt securing joints (or WotEver they are called)  which caused the backplate to separate from the rest of the stove. No other cracks. 

 

I expect the new one will outlast me, as i have changed my routine and now keep the fire in 24/7.

 

Another slap Dora (off topic) 

You're making me wonder if you're liking a slap??...

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

You're making me wonder if you're liking a slap??...

It is a bit early in the day for me. Perhaps later though? 

 

Now, without further ado. Back on topic. 

 

Find Dora a steel stove.............. 

[doratheexplorer]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It is a bit early in the day for me. Perhaps later though? 

 

Now, without further ado. Back on topic. 

 

Find Dora a steel stove.............. 

Despite appearances, I've found this thread quite useful.  It's made me realise that my Squirrel is rather lovely and I should just budget to replace every 15 years or so.  Unless someone can promise me that a steel equivalent would definitely outlast that?

Edited January 29, 2019 by doratheexplorer

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Despite appearances, I've found this thread quite useful.  It's made me realise that my Squirrel is rather lovely and I should just budget to replace every 15 years or so.  Unless someone can promise me that a steel equivalent would definitely outlast that?

That is the same conclusion i came to. We bought another squirrel, and one for the bedroom too. 

 

A great stove despite their faults. 

 

 

My only concern is if it has a catastrophic failure and sets light to the C̶a̶t̶s̶ boat. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by rusty69

[Mad Harold]

On 24/01/2019 at 23:15, Tom Richmond said:

I have heard many reports of squirrels cracking, but not all on boats. I have heard many people talk about great welded steel stoves, but not all on boats. I don't think there is a correlation between cracked cast iron stoves and boat engines, sure there are vibrations, but cast iron stoves crack due to heat...

 

I currently have a Rayburn on my boat, but we don't have an onboard engine, so it's mostly irrelevant.

It would appear from all these posts that a stove will last for between 15 and 20 years.There will I suppose,be exceptions,but the price of a new stove will need to be factored into boat running costs.As has been pointed out several times.A boat may only cost a few hundred quid in maintainance one year,and a few thousand the next.

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

It would appear from all these posts that a stove will last for between 15 and 20 years.There will I suppose,be exceptions,but the price of a new stove will need to be factored into boat running costs.As has been pointed out several times.A boat may only cost a few hundred quid in maintainance one year,and a few thousand the next.

At £34.50 /year for a squirrel lasting 20 years, that sounds like good value. Assuming it doesn't burn your boat down and kill the contents when it fails and you are able to fit it yourself with no additional cost (excluding flu and collar).

 

The Alternative......get a steel stove that may last 50 years plus, and live with the shortfalls,if you feel there are any.

 

I chose not to choose steel....I chose something else.I won't live another 50 years anyway.

[doratheexplorer]

45 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

At £34.50 /year for a squirrel lasting 20 years, that sounds like good value. Assuming it doesn't burn your boat down and kill the contents when it fails and you are able to fit it yourself with no additional cost (excluding flu and collar).

 

The Alternative......get a steel stove that may last 50 years plus, and live with the shortfalls,if you feel there are any.

 

I chose not to choose steel....I chose something else.I won't live another 50 years anyway.

What is the lifespan of a beagle?

[dmr]

22 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Let me know if you find one that ticks all your boxes. I suspect you won't find one without have one fabricated to your requirements. I don't know what that would cost, but suspect if someone like Eddie from Northern fabrications could be persuaded to produce such a beast,they would fly off the shelf.

 

I would buy one (or even two).

 

ETA. I wonder if a steel squirrel would "stay in" as well as a cast iron one.

When we were looking for a Stove I did speak to Eddie. We were replacing a lovely but inefficient Stratford Range so we wanted something with a bit more style than the Boatman. Eddie said he was so busy making the Boatman that he had no time for custom builds, but always worth asking again.

 

.............Dave

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

When we were looking for a Stove I did speak to Eddie. We were replacing a lovely but inefficient Stratford Range so we wanted something with a bit more style than the Boatman. Eddie said he was so busy making the Boatman that he had no time for custom builds, but always worth asking again.

 

.............Dave

Seems strange to me that he persist with an ok but fundamentally flawed design.  If he tweaked it a bit, I'd buy one.  I'm sure lots of others would too. 

 

1.  Make it exactly the same dimensions as a Squirrel so it's a very easy replacement.

2. Have an independantly opening ash door.

3.  Make the ash pan big enough.

 

Thats it.

[Phil Ambrose]

26 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Seems strange to me that he persist with an ok but fundamentally flawed design.  If he tweaked it a bit, I'd buy one.  I'm sure lots of others would too. 

 

1.  Make it exactly the same dimensions as a Squirrel so it's a very easy replacement.

2. Have an independantly opening ash door.

3.  Make the ash pan big enough.

 

Thats it.

Maybe because he is working flat out making and selling Boatman stoves he doesn't need to make "upgraded" stoves, nothing in it for him.

Phil