BMC 1.8 and gearbox oil, prop not engaging properly

[Onewheeler]

1 hour ago, Poppin said:

If it's the seal leaking into the housing, presumably it won't need craining out to fix?

No, it's an easy job if the bolts are accessible: the gearbox and housing are luggable. I'd be tempted, if you think it is the front seal, to slacken the bolts holding the housing to the engine enough to confirm that there is oil in the housing (unless your investigations show that it is obviously coming from there). Then get the mechanic back (I assume from Calcutt?) to stick his finger in and confirm it.

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, Jess-- said:

as long as your engineer knows that the engine and gearbox are separate parts there shouldn't be any need (assuming you mean craning out the engine)

 

usual method would be...
1. undo propshaft from gearbox
2. slide prop & propshaft backwards to give some clearance
3. remove gearshift cable
4. either remove gearbox oil cooler from engine or gearbox (depends which is simpler)
4. remove gearbox from engine

 

 

Not quite so simple. The BMC has the rear engine mounts on the adapter plate so the engine would have to be supported. The rear engine mounts undone before removing the gearbox/adaptor plate/rear mounts as a unit. Probably beyond the scope of someone with limited resources on the side of the canal. I would get whoever did the recon/ installation to come and sort it pronto. If they don't want to know threaten them with trading standards.

[Boater Sam]

You would need to jack up under the engine, the rear mountings are on the flywheel housing and that has to come off to get at the gearbox bolts. 

 

 

Poppin, can I ask is RCR involved in this? Its beginning to sound like a familiar story. Don't answer if you don't wish too, I understand. You could send me a private message if you wish.

[Poppin]

No it's not RCR, I've been less than impressed with them in the past. To be honest, I've been less than impressed with everyone I've dealt with these past few years of boating... Negligent surveyors, dodgy electricians, incompetent engineers.  I'm reluctant to name the wharf at the moment, but I'll say that everyone around here is surprised to hear bad things about them. I have had an utterly shocking time with them. But here is an interesting update:

 

I've been climbing around the engine myself and I think I've found the source of the biggest leak. Maybe the only remaining one! Can someone tell me what this small bell-looking part of the engine is, hidden on the lower side with a copper pipe coming out of it, which I believe leads to an oil filter? Here's a video:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T0XE7oICy2hOBztfr7cGzQihRQMUnw39/view?usp=drivesdk

 

I gave that nut a good few turns and the constant dripping has stopped. I think in general they've done a terrible job putting this recon in, espexially considering I've  paid them £800 on top to rewire and tidy the engine compartment. Anyway I'm hoping the oil levels in the gearbox will remain stable now than all pipes have been tightened. 

 

I'll need to get a second opinion at the first marina I come across. There is so much oil along the bottom of the engine at this point that I won't know for sure it's ok until time has passed i guess. In the meantime, can someone tell me what insulation I need to put around these black tubes to stop them rubbing against each other and wearing down? They've already started to degrade just two days into the journey.

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

That's the engine fuel pump, so what is dripping is diesel, not engine or gearbox oil, I'm afraid.

It would explain a lot of diesel under the engine, but has nothing at all to do with your gearbox issues.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

So what it is connected to is a fuel filter, not an oil filter.

Edited May 24, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Boater Sam]

Sorry to say but that installation is a  mess and will not pass boat safety, leaking diesel at fuel pump union, insecure copper and rubber fuel hoses chafing on engine and hull.

That leak is diesel fuel, not gearbox oil and you have a possible fire bomb under your engine with spilt fuel everywhere. You still have a gearbox oil problem.

[alan_fincher]

Fortunately it is quite hard to ignite diesel that is just lying as a puddle.

However I do think you need to urgently find out exactly what you do have under that engine.

I'm assuming the whole area must stink of diesel, because there is no doubt that with it dripping at that rate there must be quite a lot of it in the mix.

EDIT:

Also, above where that fuel pump is leaking the water cooling circuit is passing through copper pipe with a soldered 90 degree bend in it.  The soldered joint apperas to be leaking.  Again nothing to do with your main problem, but yet something else that I think needs correcting.

Edited May 24, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Poppin]

Okay... I need to pay somebody to tidy this up pronto. At least I've managed to stop the diesel leaking for now. I'm 10 minutes from Weltonfield Marina. Anyone have experience with them?

[RLWP]

4 minutes ago, Poppin said:

Okay... I need to pay somebody to tidy this up pronto. At least I've managed to stop the diesel leaking for now. I'm 10 minutes from Weltonfield Marina. Anyone have experience with them?

Weltonfield Narrowboats? Their engineers are pretty good

 

Richard

[john6767]

On 23/05/2018 at 16:59, Tony Brooks said:

On many gearboxes the distance between max and min is about the length of the screw in thread of the nut that holds the dipstick so:

 

Remove and wipe oil off

 

Drop back in but do not screw in.

 

Lift out, turn on its side and either:

 

1. lay bottom of dipstick along the back of your hand

2. Lay the bottom of the dipstick on a piece of tissue

 

Both will allow you to see how far up the dipstick the oil is.

 

As you did not screw the dipstick back in the minimum mark is now taken as maximum and usually the bottom of the dipstick roughly equates to  minimum.

 

Note - no gearbox identity so may not be correct re levels.

 

 

That’s what I do with a PRM150, still have great difficulty seeing it though.

[Poppin]

38 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Weltonfield Narrowboats? Their engineers are pretty good

 

Richard

Better to keep going to braunston?

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, Poppin said:

Better to keep going to braunston?

No, Weltonfield will help you.

 

I've never used them because I've usually be doing work there myself on Listers. They do know what they are talking about and what you are describing is pretty normal PRM stuff

 

Richard

[Poppin]

Thanks Richard! Does anyone reckon my insurance company would help me make a claim against the original wharf? The cost of putting things right could run into the thousands, no? and I've already dropped a fortune on this shoddy work.

[RLWP]

5 minutes ago, Poppin said:

Thanks Richard! Does anyone reckon my insurance company would help me make a claim against the original wharf? The cost of putting things right could run into the thousands, no? and I've already dropped a fortune on this shoddy work.

Why not find out first? The symptoms sound like low oil, and you seem to be having trouble checking that. I'm not seeing enough leaked oil

 

Richard

[Richard T]

An alternative to laying the gearbox dipstick on a piece of paper is to make a wooden one to be used when the metal one has been removed. I found it easier to read. Some people don't like this idea but it works for me.

Good luck with sorting out your problems - it looks like you have been conned and Trading Standards might need to be involved.

[WotEver]

Does your insurance include legal cover?  I guess there’s an outside chance they’d help but I’d have thought a strongly worded letter (once you know what’s wrong) followed by threat of legal action would do the trick. Small Claims Court will accept claims up to £10,000 so that could be your last-resort.  However, I believe that you have to firstly allow the original guys to fix the problem. I could be wrong about that and someone with better knowledge than me would be better placed to advise. 

[70liveaboard]

Just out of interest, what viscosity was the oil you put in the gearbox, or indeed they put in ?

[Poppin]

21 minutes ago, 70liveaboard said:

Just out of interest, what viscosity was the oil you put in the gearbox, or indeed they put in ?

15/40

30 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Does your insurance include legal cover?  I guess there’s an outside chance they’d help but I’d have thought a strongly worded letter (once you know what’s wrong) followed by threat of legal action would do the trick. Small Claims Court will accept claims up to £10,000 so that could be your last-resort.  However, I believe that you have to firstly allow the original guys to fix the problem. I could be wrong about that and someone with better knowledge than me would be better placed to advise. 

Yes legal cover and policy says this too: 

We also cover claims against retailers of goods or services supplied for use in connection with the vessel 
or the vessel itself providing that the amount in dispute is not less than £150 and not more than £5,000. 
On payment of an additional premium we will amend these limits by reducing the amount of £150 to £100 
and increasing the amount of £5,000 to an unlimited sum.

[Poppin]

34 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Why not find out first? The symptoms sound like low oil, and you seem to be having trouble checking that. I'm not seeing enough leaked oil

 

Richard

The oil is leaking out. It is under the gearbox, and under the engine mixed in with the Diesal. One of the wharfs trainees came and tightened an apparantly loose oil coolant line, but the stuff is all over the place. 

[Boater Sam]

It needs cleaning out before you do any more cruising. Get it clean, put paper on the floor and then see if you have any further leaks when the engine is run. If so, get them fixed and get those pipes secured. Remove all paper and combustibles from under the engine and gearbox.

[RLWP]

5 minutes ago, Poppin said:

The oil is leaking out. It is under the gearbox, and under the engine mixed in with the Diesal. One of the wharfs trainees came and tightened an apparantly loose oil coolant line, but the stuff is all over the place. 

Id have to check, from memory there's about a litre of oil in those boxes. I'm not seeing a litre of oil in the bilge

 

Anyway, it's really hard to do proper diagnosis by Internet forum. I would pop over to have a look, only I am completely snowed under at the moment. Get Weltonhythe to check it for you

 

Richard.

[alan_fincher]

The manual indicates that thegearbox should hold 1.4 lites, (2.5 pints) of oil.  The oil cooler will increase that slightly but not a lot.
 

How much oil do you reckon you have put in it so far. please?

[WotEver]

10 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

It needs cleaning out before you do any more cruising. Get it clean, put paper on the floor and then see if you have any further leaks when the engine is run. If so, get them fixed and get those pipes secured. Remove all paper and combustibles from under the engine and gearbox.

^^^^ this. 

You’ll need cat litter or cheap disposable nappies and lots of paper towels to clean up the existing mess. Once that’s done then as above, spread paper towels below the engine, start it up and look for leaks. 

[Flyboy]

On 23/05/2018 at 19:04, Poppin said:

Prop shaft turns fine by hand. As for identification, Any markings have been painted over it seems, here is a pic

 

On picture 2, is there a nut missing on the drive coupling ?  Also there seems to be Nyloc nuts on the exhaust flange, very bad practice in a very hot area. The more I look at the pictures, the more I see lots of very poor installation features. If I were you I would get back to installer and get them to rectify the faults and report to trading standards if they refuse.

[ditchcrawler]

22 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Sounds like it could be the gearbox input shaft seal is leaking into the bellhousing, which presumably has a drain at the lowest point, and it is either dripping from there or running along the underside of the engine and dripping from the sump.

That would be my view, but you dont need the boat lifting out