More Alternator problems

[roland elsdon]

So from what is being referenced the addition of an advec and hence removal of internal regulator could cause the alternator to continue to put out full output. ( hence the rest period) . I had no alternator issues with my old advec equiped boat ( hence fitting one to current boat) and that had 6 batteries, this has 2. 

Anybody know of a good quality drop in alternator to fit acr/ 127 mounts?

[Dr Bob]

31 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I think you will have to update your infrequent red thermomoter thread to include alternator testing and diagnosis. 

If no traditional instruments are available, or  remote diagnostics are required by inference then whip out your infrequent red thermometer (other thermometers are available). 

Testing can be undertaken whilst waiting for locks without leaving the comfort of your tiller. 

We have just started 3 weeks dogsitting our sons dog. Another thing the infrequent red thermometer can do it tell you if the dog is still alive. The list of applications is endless.

[bizzard]

Say Arrrrrr.

[rusty69]

29 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Say Arrrrrr.

Dammit Bizz, He's a Doctor, not a pirate. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by rusty69

[Tumshie]

33 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Dammit Bizz, He's a Doctor, not a pirate. 

Been watching Star Trek again Rusty? 

[Dr Bob]

19 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Been watching Star Trek again Rusty? 

The infrequent red thermometer will work on Tribbles as well. It is such a good meter. I don't think it will be accurate if trying to measure SoC when near 100% though.....but then most things don't.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_with_Tribbles

[rusty69]

19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

The infrequent red thermometer will work on Tribbles as well.

The trouble trying to take Tribble temperatures with thermometers, time tells that three temperature transducers trending together totally tally. 

[Dr Bob]

Right just emerged from the engine 'ole. Cruiser stern. Loads of room....except round the alternators and no where to put your feet while straddling the beast. Nice a warm 'cause of the obligatory pram hood. Now it's not only the duck sticking its nose it, its the bloody dog (that is still alive) that we are babysitting.

Anyway, back to the plot and the numbers @Sir Nibble was after.

The 90A alternator was putting out 14.30V on the B+ and 14.20V on the D+ immediately after start up. It is still connected to the Sterling A to B. After 3 or 4 mins, when the AtoB started to 'up' its voltage,  the two readings stayed about the same with the AtoB putting 14.50V (ish) into the domestic bank. The batteries were 30Ahrs discharged from full (660Ahrs capacity) so the AtoB was in Absorption mode. Battery voltage at rest this morning with 40Ahrs out was 12.63V ish before the solar came on. Dog got me up too early!!!!

I checked the output from the 55A alternator but it only had a B+  - couldnt see a D+ post. It was 14.35V so a tad higher than the bigger alternator.

I guess these values are fine. Not sure how this compares to when we got the boat as I never measured voltage at the B+ but only measured it at the BMV shunt & solar MPPT controller. At that time, I never saw it go above 13.9V during Absorption. I guess it could have been a wiring issue with voltage drop but the wiring was replaced when I got the AtoB fitted. Perhaps therefore I dont need the AtoB now the wiring's sorted but it is very useful to get the voltage up to 14.5V

So does that mean both alternators are working normally but the smaller one is having to do a lot of work? I have cleaned it up and it was belt dust. Maybe it will be a bit cooler now.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Dr Bob

[WotEver]

15 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I guess it could have been a wiring issue with voltage drop

Almost certainly the case. As Gibbo used to repeat frequently, get rid of any split charge diodes and put in decent sized cables with good connections and you don’t need Charles’s device to overcome the shortcomings in your system. 

[Sir Nibble]

35 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Right just emerged from the engine 'ole. Cruiser stern. Loads of room....except round the alternators and no where to put your feet while straddling the beast. Nice a warm 'cause of the obligatory pram hood. Now it's not only the duck sticking its nose it, its the bloody dog (that is still alive) that we are babysitting.

Anyway, back to the plot and the numbers @Sir Nibble was after.

The 90A alternator was putting out 14.30V on the B+ and 14.20V on the D+ immediately after start up. It is still connected to the Sterling A to B. After 3 or 4 mins, when the AtoB started to 'up' its voltage,  the two readings stayed about the same with the AtoB putting 14.50V (ish) into the domestic bank. The batteries were 30Ahrs discharged from full (660Ahrs capacity) so the AtoB was in Absorption mode. Battery voltage at rest this morning with 40Ahrs out was 12.63V ish before the solar came on. Dog got me up too early!!!!

I checked the output from the 55A alternator but it only had a B+  - couldnt see a D+ post. It was 14.35V so a tad higher than the bigger alternator.

I guess these values are fine. Not sure how this compares to when we got the boat as I never measured voltage at the B+ but only measured it at the BMV shunt & solar MPPT controller. At that time, I never saw it go above 13.9V during Absorption. I guess it could have been a wiring issue with voltage drop but the wiring was replaced when I got the AtoB fitted. Perhaps therefore I dont need the AtoB now the wiring's sorted but it is very useful to get the voltage up to 14.5V

So does that mean both alternators are working normally but the smaller one is having to do a lot of work? I have cleaned it up and it was belt dust. Maybe it will be a bit cooler now.

Those figures are fine and with decent cables it really should charge fine with the standard setup.

[rusty69]

45 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Loads of room....except round the alternators and no where to put your feet while straddling the beast

I'm glad you don't appear to have any serious alternator problems, but I am a bit concerned how you are treating that duck!

[Dr Bob]

10 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Those figures are fine and with decent cables it really should charge fine with the standard setup.

Thanks Sir Nibbs. If I wanted to replace either or both of these alternators with ones that can deliver high amps continuously, what are the best makes. From your post in another thread you were mentioning you were looking into alternators for Lithiums. When is that likely to happen?

[Sea Dog]

I'm a bit late to the party here Dr Bob, but have you had the Beta alternators connected to their respective batteries without the Sterling gizmo linking them up?  If you have a pair of low output alternators I can see a possible case for the gizmo, but I reckon a healthy 90a domestic alternator would do the job without being linked to the engine alternator.  You have a battery monitor, so can monitor your domestic charging current and tell what's going on in your boat but, even though my Beta 42 has a 175a alternator,  my domestic charge current drops below 90 amps in a matter of minutes even on batteries down to about 60% SOC. With that in mind, my inclination would be to keep things simple - have the charging circuits separate and, if the domestic alternator has a fault, get it fixed or replace it.  More than one way to skin a cat though. 

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

More than one way to skin a cat though. 

Number 18: Sandblasting.

[Dr Bob]

27 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I'm a bit late to the party here Dr Bob, but have you had the Beta alternators connected to their respective batteries without the Sterling gizmo linking them up?  If you have a pair of low output alternators I can see a possible case for the gizmo, but I reckon a healthy 90a domestic alternator would do the job without being linked to the engine alternator.  You have a battery monitor, so can monitor your domestic charging current and tell what's going on in your boat but, even though my Beta 42 has a 175a alternator,  my domestic charge current drops below 90 amps in a matter of minutes even on batteries down to about 60% SOC. With that in mind, my inclination would be to keep things simple - have the charging circuits separate and, if the domestic alternator has a fault, get it fixed or replace it.  More than one way to skin a cat though. 

I went for the sterling AtoB as the voltage was low. Maybe I dont need in now the wiring is ok but it still is very useful in getting the voltage up to 14.5V and can be programmed to the battery type and is likely more intelligent on absorption/float. This thread has helped me understand a bit more about alternators and having 2 with the AtoB gives me a number of ways to skin that cat.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

This thread has helped me understand a bit more about alternators and having 2 with the AtoB gives me a number of ways to skin that cat.

Glad you have given the duck the day off.

[Dr Bob]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Glad you have given the duck the day off.

Naw, the dogs chased the cat off and now the duck wont let the dog back on the boat.

[rusty69]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

Naw, the dogs chased the cat off and now the duck wont let the dog back on the boat.

Thats what you mean by alternator problems?

Thought it was an electrical problem not alternating animals,although I have heard of alternating fruits........Alternating Currants.

[Sir Nibble]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Thanks Sir Nibbs. If I wanted to replace either or both of these alternators with ones that can deliver high amps continuously, what are the best makes. From your post in another thread you were mentioning you were looking into alternators for Lithiums. When is that likely to happen?

The alternators you have are good kit for their relative jobs. As for the other, still at the planning stage and the man with the money and the market has just suffered a bereavement so don't hold your breath. I am still tossing ideas around.

[Sea Dog]

3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Naw, the dogs chased the cat off and now the duck wont let the dog back on the boat.

Don't bring me into your menagerie a trois! 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

Don't bring me into your menagerie a trois! 

I think the star trek jokes are on the other thread. I too liked Deanna Trois!

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Thanks Sir Nibbs. If I wanted to replace either or both of these alternators with ones that can deliver high amps continuously, what are the best makes. From your post in another thread you were mentioning you were looking into alternators for Lithiums. When is that likely to happen?

Be aware that there were issues with the pre 2007(?) Beta 42s where the power take off from the crank at the front of the engine was not man enough for radial load of the bigger alternators.  Later motors have a revised, shorter pulley mounting.  Someone will be able to clarify the exact detail if you do intend to explore that option, but 'twas a big job to put right, so do do your homework.

[nicknorman]

I’d be inclined to go back to separate charging, the 55A alternator for the engine battery and the 90A one for the domestics. Using the A2B on the 90A alternator/domestics might help a bit with charging times if that’s important to you, but not massively. I see there is a polyvee belt for the 90A alternator so you could fit a bigger alternator, later Betas have a 175A Iskra alternator. But the bracketry may need modifying to fit a different sized alternator. If the alternator is to be used just for charging the batteries then I don’t think it’s worth the hassle of fitting a larger alternator. A large alternator can be useful to run a high power device via a big inverter, eg washing machine, electric kettle, tumble drier etc, but only if you have a big inverter and want to run such things!

[Sir Nibble]

22 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

So from what is being referenced the addition of an advec and hence removal of internal regulator could cause the alternator to continue to put out full output. ( hence the rest period) . I had no alternator issues with my old advec equiped boat ( hence fitting one to current boat) and that had 6 batteries, this has 2.

Anybody know of a good quality drop in alternator to fit acr/ 127 mounts?

Yes, but you would need a poly vee belt to drive it.

[Dr Bob]

Sea Dog/Nick

thanks for the inputs. I think I will stick with what I have now. There is a total of 140A from the 2 together and I rarely run more than 100Ahr out (<20% of capacity) so they are not going to be overworked. I now know what I will need if one of the units fail.