Forth and Clyde Closure

[ronnietucker]

2 minutes ago, AllanD said:

or a dumping area for old cars.

 

It'd make a change from shopping trolleys.

[Up-Side-Down]

In the Sunday papers: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/946204/scotland-forth-clyde-canal-boating-community-angry-scottish-ministers-stranded

[WotEver]

17 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

In the Sunday papers: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/946204/scotland-forth-clyde-canal-boating-community-angry-scottish-ministers-stranded

I love the quote:

The majority of canal users, from cyclists to joggers and dog walkers, are unaffected.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I love the quote:

The majority of canal users, from cyclists to joggers and dog walkers, are unaffected.

 

You cannot argue with that.

You could say the same if the English canal system was totally closed down - after all there are 460,000,000 visits per year to the canals. Boats are a very, very, very small minority of canal users.

[Up-Side-Down]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You cannot argue with that.

You could say the same if the English canal system was totally closed down - after all there are 460,000,000 visits per year to the canals. Boats are a very, very, very small minority of canal users.

 

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You cannot argue with that.

You could say the same if the English canal system was totally closed down - after all there are 460,000,000 visits per year to the canals. Boats are a very, very, very small minority of canal users.

Yet they provide the moving wallpaper that in turn attracts all those 460,000,000 annual visits!

[Jess--]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You cannot argue with that.

You could say the same if the English canal system was totally closed down - after all there are 460,000,000 visits per year to the canals. Boats are a very, very, very small minority of canal users.

I can argue with it... I would say that it's a toss up between boats and fishermen as to who is the largest number of canal users.

almost everyone else uses the towpath

 

[Up-Side-Down]

3 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

I can argue with it... I would say that it's a toss up between boats and fishermen as to who is the largest number of canal users.

almost everyone else uses the towpath

 

Don't forget the Scottish Canals management who reckon they can walk on water ................. . I've never met such arrogant people.

[Iain_S]

1 hour ago, Up-Side-Down said:

In the Sunday papers: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/946204/scotland-forth-clyde-canal-boating-community-angry-scottish-ministers-stranded

Typical Express reporting, though, blaming the Scottish government, rather than the management of Scottish Canals.

 

[AllanD]

Any action by the government can only be judged on the accuracy and integrity of any information presented. The question is really; has been the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth; remembering that we live an age of post-truth.

[ronnietucker]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

I love the quote:

The majority of canal users, from cyclists to joggers and dog walkers, are unaffected.

 

They're unaffected at the moment, but if the canal is left to wreck and ruin then no one will use the towpath as, let's face it, people only use it because it's a nice walk away from the hustle and bustle of the roads. If it's down the side of a stinky, unkept, canal then it'll also get disused.

[Up-Side-Down]

1 hour ago, ronnietucker said:

They're unaffected at the moment, but if the canal is left to wreck and ruin then no one will use the towpath as, let's face it, people only use it because it's a nice walk away from the hustle and bustle of the roads. If it's down the side of a stinky, unkept, canal then it'll also get disused.

......... and I loose count of the number of people walking/cycling the towpath who stop and start taking photos of the boats moored at Bowling.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

......... and I loose count of the number of people walking/cycling the towpath who stop and start taking photos of the boats moored at Bowling.

Are they not likely to be there even more now the bridges are not working - giving more opportunities for photographs ?

Every cloud has a silver lining - or, of you wish - every silver lining has a cloud around it.

[Peter X]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Typical Express reporting, though, blaming the Scottish government, rather than the management of Scottish Canals.

 

It starts by pointing the finger at the politicians, but does go on to criticise the management of Scottish Canals too.

Anyway, isn't it more directly under government control than the CRT is in England and Wales? If the Scottish government is supposed to monitor what its quangos do and has the power to replace the management, they are ultimately responsible for the failures of Scottish Canals.

[Up-Side-Down]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are they not likely to be there even more now the bridges are not working - giving more opportunities for photographs ?

Every cloud has a silver lining - or, of you wish - every silver lining has a cloud around it.

Good point ......... although I was intending to imply that said boats would now only be visible at certain locations severely limiting the opportunities for photography and general gongoozling.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Good point ......... although I was intending to imply that said boats would now only be visible at certain locations severely limiting the opportunities for photography and general gongoozling.

My misunderstanding - I thought the implication was that they only took photos at Bowling.

[Up-Side-Down]

4 minutes ago, Peter X said:

It starts by pointing the finger at the politicians, but does go on to criticise the management of Scottish Canals too.

Anyway, isn't it more directly under government control than the CRT is in England and Wales? If the Scottish government is supposed to monitor what its quangos do and has the power to replace the management, they are ultimately responsible for the failures of Scottish Canals.

That is the situation in a nutshell Peter X.

[Iain_S]

2 hours ago, Peter X said:

It starts by pointing the finger at the politicians, but does go on to criticise the management of Scottish Canals too.

Anyway, isn't it more directly under government control than the CRT is in England and Wales? If the Scottish government is supposed to monitor what its quangos do and has the power to replace the management, they are ultimately responsible for the failures of Scottish Canals.

No more under direct government control than BW was prior to CaRT. 

 

e.t.a. I agree the Scottish Government has been a bit remiss in its choice of board members, failing to appoint any with knowledge of the construction and working of canals. The Board, however, must bear responsibility for the current situation. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Iain_S
additional text

[Jokar]

Scottish government need to step in and investigate the problems and if the Scottish canal management  is to blame for the shambles on the canal then steps should be taken to replace ALL those responsible,  and while doing so get folk who know what the purpose  of a canal is and what you get as a by product,  the canal wasn't engineered for the towpath, that is a by product now. Also get folk who know about the need for running of a canal, for years the weed problem esculated as the micro organisms  within the weed and water had to be protected, even any weed removed from the canal had to be left lying so anything living in the weed could return to the water, weed killers could not be used. Large boats could have been encouraged  to transit too helping to dredge the canal. We agree the way the canal was run when reopened could not continue. But passage booking and self locking should have been encouraged to keep boats moving.  Even bringing the charges down to get the canal used. 

[AllanD]

On 15/04/2018 at 19:52, Jokar said:

But passage booking and self locking should have been encouraged to keep boats moving.  Even bringing the charges down to get the canal used. 

It was this passage booking and the manner in which we were herded in convoy through the locks on the Forth Clyde Canal  which severely diminished the enjoyment factor of cruising. The freedom to cruise spontaneously was removed. This was one of the reasons which made me consider selling up. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by AllanD

[haggis]

27 minutes ago, AllanD said:

It was this passage booking and the manner in which we were herded in convoy through the locks on the Forth Clyde Canal  which severely diminished the enjoyment factor of cruising. The freedom to cruise spontaneously was removed. This was one of the reasons which made me consider selling up. 

When the lowland canals were reopened and it was announced that there would be no boater operation of locks and bridges I argued against it but when you have the hire fleet operator and other influential figures against you, you don't have much chance of winning. Scottish Canals management couldn't understand that a lot of the enjoyment of canal boating is to go when you want and stop when you want and not be herded like sheep 

Haggis 

[Jokar]

I have witnessed  some lock gates being pushed open with a pickup, but during good weather I see no reason why self locking is not encouraged. And I'd rather book my passage than be told what day I can move

[ronnietucker]

Since I'm new to this game, I have to ask: why did they (whomever) decide against boaters operating the locks themselves?

[haggis]

Who knows? Obviously it was considered that boaters couldn't manage to work locks and bridges themselves and once the decision was made it couldn't be unmade 

The fact that boaters down south, including hire boaters, had been managing just fine for years didn't alter their opinion 

Haggis 

[Mr Venus]

Unlike most of the locks on the English network, the locks on the Lowland canals have no by-pass weirs. As the F&C "flows" from its summit, the locks "run" all the time over the top of the gates due to excess water, this being Scotland after all. On top of that, the lock gates themselves have sluices built in above the water level, which means that boats going downhill can get cascaded with water in the stern when the locks are being filled. Going uphill, you are met with a waterfall coming from way above your head at the bow.

Contrary to a previous post, I'm sure the hire fleet would love to have all the locks self operated by the crews, but these locks are not safe, and I speak as one who has done thousands of locks, big and small, often single handed, but I wouldn't do these on my own.

In fact, despite the generally excellent work performed by both the SC and Re-Union lock teams, flooded boats are not as rare as they should be, and an out of control boat caught in the water stream coming from one of the gate sluices is not a pretty sight. Steel narrowboats are one thing, but a plastic yacht out of control would be another.

 

[Jokar]

Mr Venus,  I have seen water rushing in too fast and swamping boats, never thought why. But I know some boaters were given lessons to operate certain locks, not sure which ones, but I don't think any bridges were involved  in the training.