Peter Thornton Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 We are at the Wigan Junction waiting to go up the flight tomorrow. Having come from Leigh we have just done the two Poolstock Locks. Are these locks wider than normal? The other strange thing about them is that there is no step across board on the top gates and the bottom gates on the first lock have a windlass and chain to close them. I've never seen that before. But can someone reassure us that the next 21 locks aren't as difficult as those two!? We are the only boat here at present so look like we shall be on our own tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Porteous Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Yes, the Poolstone looked wider than normal. The rest of the Wigan Flight are the usual double lock variety. Just need a windlass, an anti-vandal key and a lot of muscle. Good luck and have fun. Handy pub at the top for a celebratory pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 You may be lucky and get a couple of CRT lockies to assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Porteous Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Sadly, very unlikely. We have "done" the Wigan Flight some 20-30 times. Whilst CRT lock keepers have been around, not once did any assist. Having said that, we happened to meet the volunteer one time (Peter). He was just superb. Assisted when required after he worked out exactly what assistance we required. The best we have ever encountered on the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted September 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Did it today, and Peter was there! I told him he was famous on the forum and he seemed quite surprised! Took 6 hours with just the two of us (Peter helped us towards the end, he had been busy with a couple of boats going down) Not too bad, but you're always aware of that looming deadline ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Peter Thornton said: Did it today, and Peter was there! I told him he was famous on the forum and he seemed quite surprised! Took 6 hours with just the two of us (Peter helped us towards the end, he had been busy with a couple of boats going down) Not too bad, but you're always aware of that looming deadline ......... Ah, you passed us heading the other way a couple of days ago, near Dover Bridge I think, I made some smart remark about your boat name... 6 hours isn't bad on your own, we rattled down the flight in three a few days back but that was with another crew. Fortunately the lockie let us out early at the bottom. Actually we would have done the flight quicker but for a pair of boats coming up who though it was a good idea to raft up until they got stuck in one of the locks where the gates don't fully open. Then they couldn't untie the ropes holding the boats together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 23 hours ago, Peter Thornton said: We are at the Wigan Junction waiting to go up the flight tomorrow. Having come from Leigh we have just done the two Poolstock Locks. Are these locks wider than normal? The other strange thing about them is that there is no step across board on the top gates and the bottom gates on the first lock have a windlass and chain to close them. I've never seen that before. But can someone reassure us that the next 21 locks aren't as difficult as those two!? We are the only boat here at present so look like we shall be on our own tomorrow. I've only done Poolstock once, about ten years ago heading for the Ribble Link, so I can't recall details of their layout so can't help on gates etc On their construction, they have a curios origin. As originally built the Lee Branch had no locks here, the fall was at the other end near Dover, with mining subsidence first one and then two locks at Poolstock were introduced and the locks at Dover and Plank Lane became redundant, although one still passes through narrows where they once were. This means that Poolstock locks got progressively deeper after they were built, and are quite a bit newer than the canal they are on, thus they are not contemporary with the other locks in the Wigan area, and they have been extensively rebuilt in their lifetime. That said, I think the Wigan flight has been rebuilt a couple of times following subsidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 There were originally three locks on the Leigh branch, two at Dover and one at Plank Lane. The narrows for all three are still there. They were replaced by those at Poolstock early in the 20th century when subsidence became a major problem. Some 80 feet of coal has been removed under some parts of Wigan/Leigh, and the whole area has dropped up to 30 feet. The upper Poolstock lock was originally built from wood to allow for subsidence, and was replaced by the current concrete lock about twenty years ago. The lock at Pagefield is also a 'new' one, and it was originally proposed to have sliding gates to accommodate subsidence.It replaced the one at Crooke, whose chamber also survives. Wigan flight is interesting to study when drained as you can see how the locks have been raised or lowered to keep the lock falls fairly standard after subsidence. The top lock had a fall of over 15 feet around 1890, so was one of the deepest in the UK before being altered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Thanks Pluto - I nearly quoted the wooden top lock but wasn't certain I hadn't made it up! Didn't realise there were three originally, although I think at one point all five were in use? Nicholson's Guides in the 1970's stated of Poolstock "depth varies" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 The top Poolstock lock was opened in 1901, and the lower in 1915. Dover lower lock was out of use by 1927, and I seem to remember that the upper was used into the 1950s. Plank Lane Lock became level around 1915. Subsidence in this area only stabilised around 1980. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted September 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 On a perhaps related subject, we noticed a long line of wooden piling on the right, after Leigh. It was set back about a couple of foot from the concrete bank. Was this something to do with works to combat the subsidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Peter Thornton said: On a perhaps related subject, we noticed a long line of wooden piling on the right, after Leigh. It was set back about a couple of foot from the concrete bank. Was this something to do with works to combat the subsidence? Without knowing the particulars, the most likely answer is yes, in that the banks have needed constant repair for well over 100 years and periodically the answer is a major investment rather than a patch up. The issue is that bank protection at water level eventually ends up under water, and subsidence makes the banks less stable anyway, so once in a while the whole lot is replaced and raised. Wooden piling is (a) an historic solution that is seldom if ever used these days and (b ) difficult to extend upwards if it sinks further Concrete banks can have another layer of concrete added at a later date if needs be Pluto, my father recalls his friend Stan Kelsall (who was quite a bit older than dad) using Dover Lock in the late fifties/early sixties and one summer arriving to find it was no longer needed. He had been quite rude about it when it was in use, telling the lock keeper that it could be filled by relieving oneself on the way home from the pub, although Stan didn't put it quite like that apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) Three photos of the Leigh branch. The first is one of mine from 1980 showing the first Poolstock lock with its wooden construction. The second is the embankment resulting from raising the banks in 1967, photo from the Waterway Archive. The last is by Edward Paget-Tomlinson from 1972, showing one of the boats at Plank Lane used for dumping pit shale into the canal to reduce water depth, and hence the pressure on the banks. Edited September 17, 2017 by Pluto Editted to get captions correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIC Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 16 September 2017 at 19:01, Pluto said: Plank Lane Lock became level around 1915. I've never understood how the locks became level? I could understand a lock sinking in its entirety and a new one being required above, but I've been through Dover and Plank Lane and they seems, well, level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloudinspector Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 17/09/2017 at 17:40, Pluto said: Three photos of the Leigh branch. The first is one of mine from 1980 showing the first Poolstock lock with its wooden construction. The second is the embankment resulting from raising the banks in 1967, photo from the Waterway Archive. The last is by Edward Paget-Tomlinson from 1972, showing one of the boats at Plank Lane used for dumping pit shale into the canal to reduce water depth, and hence the pressure on the banks. Is the embankment where the flashes are now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 40 minutes ago, AndrewIC said: I've never understood how the locks became level? I could understand a lock sinking in its entirety and a new one being required above, but I've been through Dover and Plank Lane and they seems, well, level! There is an interesting consequence of mining subsidence at lock 4 on the Ashton Canal. The water level in the pound below that lock looks to be normal , about 6ins below the wash wall copings. at the other end of that pound, above lock 3, the towpath is about three feet above the water level,giving the appearance of a nearly empty canal. Also, the fall on lock 4 is now about 3ft but the lock is actually as deep as the nearby lock 5,about 12ft, with 'full size' tailgates , mostly under water. There are brick buttresses across the bottom of the lock to hold the walls out.Subsidence was caused by the Bradford Colliery,closed in the early 1970s because the cost of rectifying subsidence damage had made mining here uneconomic. There is still an estimated 900,000,000 tons of coal reserves under Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Cloudinspector said: Is the embankment where the flashes are now? No, I think it is towards Dover. There are two sets of flashes: Scotsmans Flash below Poolstock dates from around 1900, and Pennington Flash, at Plank Lane, developed in the 1960s and 70s. The majority of subsidence takes place over a fairly short period, as this section along the Leigh branch shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted November 12, 2022 Report Share Posted November 12, 2022 All very interesting. Also slightly interesting that the locks are I believe 72 ft, unlike any other Leeds Liverpool locks which are more like 62ft, thus allowing 'full length' southern boats to Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Eater Posted November 12, 2022 Report Share Posted November 12, 2022 Off topic Poolstock locks close on Monday 21st November for long overdue repairs. They are expected to reopen on Monday 5th December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted November 12, 2022 Report Share Posted November 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, DHutch said: All very interesting. Also slightly interesting that the locks are I believe 72 ft, unlike any other Leeds Liverpool locks which are more like 62ft, thus allowing 'full length' southern boats to Wigan. All the locks ( Hell Meadow, Pagefield, Dean, Appley Bridge et al) between Poolstock and Liverpool are 72ft long, so a "full length southern boats" are able to get beyond Wigan and all the way to the Liverpool link and Albert Dock. Not down the Rufford Arm though, so no access to Tarleton, Preston Docks or the Ribble Link. The change of lock size is evidenced in their being two sorts of Leeds and Liverpool wide beam boat: The Leeds and Liverpool Long Boat ( 72x x14 ft ish), and the more commonly seen Leeds and Liverpool Short Boat (62 ×14 ft ish). N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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