Listing

[AlexK91]

Yeah defiantley going to have a look at some ballast to try even me out and someone suggested that of if my pump out tank os making me list so much I might be better of with a thetford cassette toilet which I'm going to look it. When I'm at the marina I mostly use the toilets there unless its middle of night or chucking it down so might look onto that too.

[Rickent]

Pump out or cassette mmmmmm.... i wonder.

[cheshire~rose]

I am glad it all seems under control. When I posted before I had not read the thread about the weedhatch so I was not aware of that problem and was wondering why everyone else seemed so alarmed! I will admit, at a distance knowing the weedhatch seal was dodgy I may too have sounded a bit more alarmed but I was unaware of it when i posted

 

You may find you do not need any ballast

 

if you have not had the boat long then you will not be familiar with just how much difference a tank being empty or full (or anywhere in between) can make to many boats.

 

With ours we always have to remember to have a full water tank if we want to get under low bridges but that can be cancelled out to an extent if we fill the diesel tank. The waster tank I have already mentioned and it takes ages to get to the point where it needs emptying but when it does it very suddenly starts to list.

 

The tank is huge but is baffled inside so the waster will fill the part of the tank that is most central in the boat but once that is full the level starts to go over the top of the baffle and starts to fill the part nearest the side. This starts to make a noticeable difference quite quickly.

 

Get your waste tank emptied, your water tank filled (or perhaps half filled depending how full your diesel tank is) and take a good look at how she sits. If you are certain there is no water in the bilges anywhere and she sits much better once you have sorted the tanks out live with it for a while noting the difference as the tanks fill and empty. We sometimes move a bag of coal from one side to the other to level stuff up a bit temporarily if we need to

[blackrose]

There might even be a bilge pump in the concealed section of bilge. If there is an unidentified switch somewhere, try turning it ON.

If he can't find an inspection hatch it's unlikely there's a pump in the cabin bilge.

 

This thread makes useful reading for anyone who doesn't have a pump or means of easily pumping out the cabin bilge.

I would suggest that if you go and get a really good pump out and fill your fresh water tank you will have a far better idea of what the actual trim of your boat should be.

Had the boat actually been sinking then I would suggest that moving the boat would have been a really bad idea!

[cheshire~rose]

If he can't find an inspection hatch it's unlikely there's a pump in the cabin bilge.

 

This thread makes useful reading for anyone who doesn't have a pump or means of easily pumping out the cabin bilge.

 

Had the boat actually been sinking then I would suggest that moving the boat would have been a really bad idea!

 

As I have already stated, I had not read the other thread regarding the potential problem with the weed hatch when I posted that comment and so my suggestion was based purely on the OP.

 

Based soley on the information given there it reminded me very much of how differing trim situations are affected by full and empty tanks on our own boat - I saw no reason to think the boat was sinking from the OP

[Iain_S]

Although if the list developed after, or round about the same time as, the weedhatch problem, there may still be a lot of water under the floor. Might be worth trying to tip the boat the other way, and see how much water runs across the baseplate!

 

I

[Drayke]

Tried all my switches don't believe I have one...thabks for your help everyone. I've now sealed my weed hatch.the water level has seemed to go down a bit. And someone in my marina thinks its also something as simple as my fresh water tank at front of boat being empty as front is out of water a little higher than usual (going by the water marks) there was some water ing he bottom of a cupboard which I believe is basically my cabin bilge but not much that's now been sucked out. I'm also getting a pump out tomorrow as that's also causing me to list I believe. I think now I need to fill my water tank empty the waste and see how boat is sitting and that'll give me an idea if it correct or not. I can't see any water anywhere else in the boat or by the water tank.

 

Thanks for all your help I'm very new to boating other than trips and holidays so it's a huge learning curve. Thought of learnt a lot and had asked lots of questions prior to getting a boat but nothing prepares you for owning one.

 

Thanks everyone

It still sounds like you have water in the cabin bilge. When you say that you found some water in the bottom of a cupboard, was this at the back of the boat, and did you suck the water out from under the floor or just what was on top. The front of the boat may have risen out of the water as any water in the cabin bilge will run to the rear as the back end will normally site lower in the water due to the design of narrow boats. Once you have sorted this out you may need to run a dehumidifier inside the boat for a couple of weeks to help drying out the bilge.

[Guest]

Our boat had a domestic water leak inside a few years back (I blame the plumber.) I could clearly hear the water sloshing about under the floorboards, and I'm deaf. Might just be worth rocking the boat a lot with somebody else listening through the wooden floor (preferably somebody with better ears than I.)

[Arthur Brown]

The trim change due to fuel, waste and fresh water tank level changes can be very noticeable. However the same trim changes can be due to accumulation of water in the cabin bilge. Wisdom is knowing what is causing the trim changes! Skill is knowing what and how to cure the problem.

 

Emptying the waste tank cannot harm the situation.

[Guest]

My previous boat had no seal as such from the cabin bilge to the engine bilge, so any stray water used to find its way back to the engine hole and bilge pump. I once saw a boat with a ball valve really low down on the bulkhead next to the sole plate, and presume this was to drain the cabin bilges back to the engine hole? (I think it was a semitrad). I have often wondered if this was a helpful thing when the cabin got flooded?

[bizzard]

One of my old wheezes described how to make an automatic boat ''List corrector''. It involved a bit old of roof gutter transversely fitted across the boat and hinged in the middle. Heavy balls running in it were counter balanced by a heavy weight hanging on a string that ran around a pulley on the ceiling and attached to either end of the gutter so that when the boat listed the heavy balls ran uphill, defying gravity and so righting the boat and returning it to the level and curing the list.

[system 4-50]

On a typical stern-engined narrowboat, will sealing the conduit and channels in the bulkhead between the engine bay and the cabin prevent prevent an engine bay leak from sinking the boat? How much water in the engine bay can a typical boat tolerate? I know you would need lots of data to give a precise answer - but is there a general feel for what happens?

[MtB]

One of my old wheezes described how to make an automatic boat ''List corrector''. It involved a bit old of roof gutter transversely fitted across the boat and hinged in the middle. Heavy balls running in it were counter balanced by a heavy weight hanging on a string that ran around a pulley on the ceiling and attached to either end of the gutter so that when the boat listed the heavy balls ran uphill, defying gravity and so righting the boat and returning it to the level and curing the list.

 

 

May I have some of whatever you're smoking?

[cheshire~rose]

 

 

May I have some of whatever you're smoking?

 

When he said it would "cure the list" he didn't mean it would be smoked

[Lampyrichard]

On a typical stern-engined narrowboat, will sealing the conduit and channels in the bulkhead between the engine bay and the cabin prevent prevent an engine bay leak from sinking the boat? How much water in the engine bay can a typical boat tolerate? I know you would need lots of data to give a precise answer - but is there a general feel for what happens?

 

My experience would suggest the answer to your question is yes...

 

Myark is a 50' 1980 Colecraft cruiser stern, with about 12' of back deck (quite a bit bigger than many 50' cruiser sterns these days). She's got a full height bulkhead between the engine & cabin bilges & all the cabling holes are right at the top of it, so well above normal water line.

 

I managed to get her stern hung up on a protruding bolt on a lock gate in a fast filling C&H lock, which resulted in the counter going under water & the engine bay getting pretty much filled with water - it was over the rocker cover of the BMC 2.5. With the stern being held down & the lock filling, she rapidly gained an alarming bow up trim & I was convinced she was about to sink.

 

However, as soon as the water level in the lock dropped enough to free her from the offending bolt, the stern shot back up & she was left happily floating, albeit with exhaust & bilge pump outlets under water.

[Guest]

 

My experience would suggest the answer to your question is yes...

 

Myark is a 50' 1980 Colecraft cruiser stern, with about 12' of back deck (quite a bit bigger than many 50' cruiser sterns these days). She's got a full height bulkhead between the engine & cabin bilges & all the cabling holes are right at the top of it, so well above normal water line.

 

I managed to get her stern hung up on a protruding bolt on a lock gate in a fast filling C&H lock, which resulted in the counter going under water & the engine bay getting pretty much filled with water - it was over the rocker cover of the BMC 2.5. With the stern being held down & the lock filling, she rapidly gained an alarming bow up trim & I was convinced she was about to sink.

 

However, as soon as the water level in the lock dropped enough to free her from the offending bolt, the stern shot back up & she was left happily floating, albeit with exhaust & bilge pump outlets under water.

Very reassuring

[Murflynn]

I think now I need to fill my water tank empty the waste and see how boat is sitting and that'll give me an idea if it correct or not.

 

just imagine that the water tank outlet piping is leaking somewhere. the LAST thing you want to do is to fill the water tank, allowing the contents to drain out into your bilges.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Murflynn

[Guest]

Just roughly working it out, i reckon the cabin bilges in our boat would hold about 1.5 tons of water (I have allowed for the bricks that take up some of the space.) I seem to recall that every ton of ballast would take the boat down about 1 inch? That being correct, it would go down about 1.5 inches? Of course our boat is slightly bow-high, so the water would be above the rear floor before the front, so I expect the bilge would never quite fill completely without us realising we were in trouble. However the water running backwards would take the stern lower I imagine.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Guest

[Peter X]

Yes if you have a full length 70 foot narrowboat, because that will occupy about 40 square metres at the waterline, so a metric ton of ballast or water (very close to an imperial ton), which occupies a cubic metre at water density, will take the boat down 2.5cm or one inch.

 

For a shorter boat such as the OP's, the area at the waterline will be less, so the height difference for one ton will be proportionately more. His waterline area might be 20 square metres, so four tons would be enough to take him down 8 inches.

[WJM]

Because the cabin bilge is hard to see and easy to forget I keep a small water alarm on the hull inside the inspection hole.

 

I also keep one on the shelf (counter top) in the engine hole in case the bilge pump fails and I don't notice. That way I get a warning at half full!

[Murflynn]

Just roughly working it out, i reckon the cabin bilges in our boat would hold about 1.5 tons of water (I have allowed for the bricks that take up some of the space.) I seem to recall that every ton of ballast would take the boat down about 1 inch? That being correct, it would go down about 1.5 inches? Of course our boat is slightly bow-high, so the water would be above the rear floor before the front, so I expect the bilge would never quite fill completely without us realising we were in trouble. However the water running backwards would take the stern lower I imagine.

if you consider the bilge to be a simple rectangular space of the same horizontal area as the plan view of the boat at the waterline, then 1" of water will take the boat down the same amount. Archimedes, innit?

 

there is a bit of buoyancy provided by the parts of the plan area that do not form part of the bilge, so if the cabin bilge is 12m long, 750 litres of water which represents 2" depth of water in the bilge will take us down about 1.6".

 

however the bottom is not horizontal so all the water will move aft to the rear cabin bulkhead, in which case the average depth will increase by 1.6". the front will probably rise (say by 4") in which case the back will sink, by about 7".

 

for a 16 tonne narrowboat these changes in trim work out to be approximately correct when calculating moments about the longitudinal centre of buoyancy.

 

conclusion - if your water tank dumps all its contents into the bilge you could well see a change in the water level in the weed hatch of 7".

 

 

 

typically

[AlexK91]

Right everyone there was a .much more major problem which is what mist of you said it was. A kind person in my marina was worried and had been discussing it so as I don't have a cabin bilge hatch he kindly drilled me a hole in the bottom of one of the under bed storage on side I'm listing. Low and behold a tonne of water poured out I'm now in the process of pumping out my cabin bilge which we suspect is full of water. It also looks like bath water as is slightly soapy so believe the water is coming from the shower when I'm pumping the water out from the shower tray. We've caught this luckily before anything drastic has happened.

 

There is like some of you said probably at least a tonne of water to get rid of if not more. Thanks again for the advice. Now I have a hole I can easily make it bigger to great a better hatch and put a cover ion it so can keep an eye on this to find my exact cause of problem

Here's a picture of my basic bilge pump set up getting rid of the water

[chubby]

Good work . It ll be a pain getting it all out and may be doing it for days yet as water works its way back . To confirm the suspect shower fittings maybe pour some red food colouring down the plug hole . If you start pumping pink water out then bingo - you know where its coming from . Or Ribena ??

Once the bilges are empty or mostly empty then look at your bathroom issue . Again , good luck

ETA : If you do this perhaps put a sheet of kitchen roll underneath the pump . Again , if u pink blotches then the pump will be leaking . If the paper stays dry then the leak may be coming from pipe work further along the system somewhere . Of course , a look below your shower tray or bathroom sink at the flooring may yet reveal soaked floorboards so the prob will be obvious. Anyway , food for thought - first things first is to get those bilges mostly emptied

Edited January 5, 2017 by chubby

[Rob-M]

My OH often uses the shower whilst I'm steering so I always have a check that water is coming out the side to reassure it isn't filling the bilges.

[mross]

My OH often uses the shower whilst I'm steering so I always have a check that water is coming out the side to reassure it isn't filling the bilges.

Is his experience that terrifying?