Looked at my first boat today

[Geo]

If it has a wet bilge walk away. Any owner worth their salt would have sorted any leaks as soon as they were discovered even while it was on sale.

 

Looking at the blurb "Hull clean and blacking in July 2016. New anodes August 2016. Coach repainted 2016" My mind asked why do all that when the boat is being sold, only one reason in my mind to hide things, be it poor maintenance or other things.

 

Who did the blacking and coach painting the owner or a professional and if so who.

 

No mention of overplating, I would have expected a 40 year old Springer to have been over plated. Nothing wrong with that when done properly. But I would expect it to be mentioned.

 

My gut says walk away

[Saul Bee]

Saul Bee

have a look at http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1992/Delphi-Marine-Narrowboat-3038388/United-Kingdom

and yes I am the broker

BUT if you want to have a look tomorrow it may give you another idea for your budget

.

and if you want I make a decent coffee for forum members

Chris

Thanks, it does look quite good certainly a lot cleaner than the one at Walton and about the same kind of size, they have dropped a huge amount off the advertised price as a starting bid on that boat which would mean I had some money to change things about. I would not have considered this at all if it had been at the listed price. Not sure I like bunks, but I guess that can be tweaked layout wise given time. Like I have heard here the hull and engine are the most important. Not sure if I would be able to get down to Pyrford before next weekend though. Perhaps I could PM you and arrange something.

[Saul Bee]

Thanks for all the advice people. Looks like this is a non starter. Would it make a difference if I said I had been more or less offered it for 10 grand. I was a bit suspicious about that as well as it is quite a dramatic drop in price, I was expecting something off anyway but I hardly had to say anything at all for it to fall.

 

If the water is just coming from the flue on the stove that will probably be an easier fix for me ( I know someone who works with woodburners ) but if it is something more serious it would be an issue.

 

At that price I would also have some money in the bank to do things such as replace the stove entirely and add solar panels etc... but if I had to replace the engine or replate the hull or do any major work I would be stuffed.

[Peter X]

...

 

Indeed "all things are irrelevant"; as Einstein himself once said of the application of his work to the narrow canals of England (apparently being German he didn't know where Wales was).

 

JP

Totally off topic, but Einstein made several visits to the UK, visiting at least Manchester, Oxford and London, so might have come across canals:

http://www.einstein-website.de/z_biography/chronological_table.html

He met Lloyd George in September 1933, who would have made him aware of Wales:

http://history.aip.org/history/exhibits/einstein/public3.htm

[Murflynn]

But Alan, you are making a common yet important mistake of someone who spends his time on rivers and the sea.

 

This is a narrowboat built for the narrow canals of England (and Wales just to keep GD quiet) where the conventional concepts of time and space are strangely distorted with consequent effects on the established laws of science.

 

Therefore the normal concepts associated with successfully mass produced engines and the rates of corrosion and the strength of mild steel known to learned folk in the full sized world manifest themselves in strange ways on the canals. Ways that are known only to age old canal folk.

 

Indeed "all things are irrelevant"; as Einstein himself once said of the application of his work to the narrow canals of England (apparently being German he didn't know where Wales was).

 

JP

luvvit !!

People say the same about houses, but when we were looking for our first house, in Sussex,we bought the second one that we viewed, and lived happily in it for 12 years. It just felt right. Perhaps we were lucky to discover it so soon.

err ...................... most people have lived in a house or flat all their life, and are therefore familiar with them when they view.

 

boats are a different matter, especially for newbees. like saulbee.

[Alan de Enfield]

But Alan, you are making a common yet important mistake of someone who spends his time on rivers and the sea.

 

 

 

And, you Sir, are making the common mistake of making assumption based on very little knowledge.

 

To rectify that a little - we are in the fortunate position of being able to own several boats at any one time and for the last 30 years have had both Steel narrow boats and sea going GRP cruisers.

We only 'got rid' of our last NB last year when we replaced it with a Cat A 'Ocean' cruising (sailing) catamaran, so at this point in time you are correct we 'only' have a Twin Engine Motor cruiser and a Cat (no NB).

[Murflynn]

 

And, you Sir, are making the common mistake of making assumption based on very little knowledge.

 

not a lot of humour today then?

[___]

And, you Sir, are making the common mistake of making assumption based on very little knowledge.

 

To rectify that a little - we are in the fortunate position of being able to own several boats at any one time and for the last 30 years have had both Steel narrow boats and sea going GRP cruisers.

We only 'got rid' of our last NB last year when we replaced it with a Cat A 'Ocean' cruising (sailing) catamaran, so at this point in time you are correct we 'only' have a Twin Engine Motor cruiser and a Cat (no NB).

I think you must be in the Nick Norman camp when it comes to my sense of humour, Alan.

[Saul Bee]

err ...................... most people have lived in a house or flat all their life, and are therefore familiar with them when they view.

 

boats are a different matter, especially for newbees. like saulbee.

Yep boats are a whole different ball game. Even having spent the last 6 months window shopping online and reading through forums stepping onto a boat and thinking do I really want to spend my money on this showed up how little of a clue I really have.

 

But then there are a lot of wonderful people to learn from here...

 

Do I really have to remember all that stuff about Einstein when I go to look at the next boat?

[Stilllearning]

Yep boats are a whole different ball game. Even having spent the last 6 months window shopping online and reading through forums stepping onto a boat and thinking do I really want to spend my money on this showed up how little of a clue I really have.

 

But then there are a lot of wonderful people to learn from here...

 

Do I really have to remember all that stuff about Einstein when I go to look at the next boat?

It's only relatively important...

[Athy]

It's only relatively important...

That's just your theory.

[Alan de Enfield]

That's just your theory.

 

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation.

[reg]

Good luck with your search Saul can I just point out what I believe are the 2 most important things to look at when purchasing any boat.

1 Decent steelwork (not sinking should be first priority always)

2 Decent Engine

 

Any thing else can be fixed, nice internals are a bonus on an older boat

 

Don't make the mistake this couple did who spent 7 months fitting out the inside of a rotten Hull only to loose everything.

 

 

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/fundraiser_launched_to_help_heartbroken_couple_whose_boat_sank_into_regent_s_canal_1_4799078

 

If I can repeat myself Steelwork first and formost

 

Again good luck and I wish you well

[OldGoat]

Good luck with your search Saul can I just point out what I believe are the 2 most important things to look at when purchasing any boat.

1 Decent steelwork (not sinking should be first priority always)

2 Decent Engine

 

Any thing else can be fixed, nice internals are a bonus on an older boat

 

Don't make the mistake this couple did who spent 7 months fitting out the inside of a rotten Hull only to loose everything.

 

 

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/fundraiser_launched_to_help_heartbroken_couple_whose_boat_sank_into_regent_s_canal_1_4799078

 

If I can repeat myself Steelwork first and formost

 

Again good luck and I wish you well

Echo the above -

interior layouts can be fixed / fettled / changed at a whim.

Hull steelwork / engines / layout / and to some extent services, require more expertise and importantly COST.

[nebulae]

Is it just me,but I am surprised how many Springers have NOT been plated. Maybe good steel,maybe carefull owners. I am aware of one which has rusted through,but had been neglected for many years. Why does everybody call them Springers. I am sure Mr Springer called them Sampson Narrow boats.?

[Saul Bee]

Good luck with your search Saul can I just point out what I believe are the 2 most important things to look at when purchasing any boat.

1 Decent steelwork (not sinking should be first priority always)

2 Decent Engine

 

Any thing else can be fixed, nice internals are a bonus on an older boat

 

It is my top lesson, steel work and engine, which is why Surveys are so important.

[Chris-B]

Thanks, it does look quite good certainly a lot cleaner than the one at Walton and about the same kind of size, they have dropped a huge amount off the advertised price as a starting bid on that boat which would mean I had some money to change things about. I would not have considered this at all if it had been at the listed price. Not sure I like bunks, but I guess that can be tweaked layout wise given time. Like I have heard here the hull and engine are the most important. Not sure if I would be able to get down to Pyrford before next weekend though. Perhaps I could PM you and arrange something.

yeah send me a pm if you want to .. I will be around till Monday 19th then locking the doors and throwing away the keys till 3rd Jan

Before anyone says anything we brokers are allowed time off as well

Chris

[___]

Is it just me,but I am surprised how many Springers have NOT been plated. Maybe good steel,maybe carefull owners. I am aware of one which has rusted through,but had been neglected for many years. Why does everybody call them Springers. I am sure Mr Springer called them Sampson Narrow boats.?

No I don't think it's just you but the underlying point beyond my obtuse rambling above is that the rate of corrosion of steel is very slow and there is no direct reason why any boat constructed in the era of modern leisure boats should be generally corroded through the main sections of the hull even if poorly cared for. The only boats I may make an exception for are those Springers constructed in very thin steel.

 

The areas subject to wear such as the chines are very important but I wonder on what proportion of boats where the hull integrity has been breached it has been a weld that has been the root cause.

 

A genuine problem is pitting but that isn't a general corrosion, i.e. rusting, issue. There are suggestions it is a specific form of electrolytically induced or possibly biological corrosion. I like the latter theory.

 

As far as SB is concerned a survey is indeed important as is trying to find out as much about the provenance of the boat and it's general upkeep.

 

I don't think the suggestion (not yours) that a 20 year old hull might very well be shot or whatever the exact words were is particularly helpful. SB doesn't have the budget to buy a boat that is less than 20 years old and I would not expect a boat that new to have problems. Condition rather than age is key and you only know that by doing your due diligence. Even then it is as much about meeting insurance criteria as 'seaworthiness'.

 

JP

Edited December 11, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Athy]

Why does everybody call them Springers. I am sure Mr Springer called them Sampson Narrow boats.?

No, the Samson name was introduced by P.J. Smith when he took over after SS's retirement.

[Bewildered]

Saul, I would recommend that you take a trip up to the midlands where there are several large brokers. Take a look at as many boats as you can even if they are way out of your price range. This will give you a better feel for what you can expect for your money and maybe even some ideas for modifications once you find the right boat.

Take a look at some of the boats on the brokers web site before you go and then compare the actual boat to the photos, a well taken photo can even make a turd look good.

When we were looking we found one boat that had coffe cup rings on the table and work tops, the owners couldn't even be bothered to clean the boat before selling; makes you then wonder what the general maintenance was like.

[Dave Payne]

Spotted a couple of £25k boats on brokerage at trinity marina the other day when I was fuelling up, if that's where abouts your budget is?

 

http://www.trinitymarinas.co.uk/boat-sales-narrowboats-uk/

[Saul Bee]

Saul, I would recommend that you take a trip up to the midlands where there are several large brokers. Take a look at as many boats as you can even if they are way out of your price range. This will give you a better feel for what you can expect for your money and maybe even some ideas for modifications once you find the right boat.

Take a look at some of the boats on the brokers web site before you go and then compare the actual boat to the photos, a well taken photo can even make a turd look good.

When we were looking we found one boat that had coffe cup rings on the table and work tops, the owners couldn't even be bothered to clean the boat before selling; makes you then wonder what the general maintenance was like.

 

I keep an eye out and have been trawling the interwebs for a few months now, last weekend was the first chance I had to go and see a boat in person as it were. I don't think I could find the time to have a proper tour of brokers up north to be honest, I think I would have to line up some specific boats to look at.

One of the things that I discovered on my first boat viewing was just how different it was to the pictures and a hell of a lot more shabby. I noticed what was not in the photos and was also surprised by some bits that were not in there.

Thanks for the input.

 

Spotted a couple of £25k boats on brokerage at trinity marina the other day when I was fuelling up, if that's where abouts your budget is?

 

http://www.trinitymarinas.co.uk/boat-sales-narrowboats-uk/

 

Cheers for the pointer. Might have to do some hard bargaining or keep saving for a while.

[reg]

One of the things that I discovered on my first boat viewing was just how different it was to the pictures.....

At the end of a viewing of my boat I was selling a good few years ago the prospective buyer said "I thoroughly compliment you on being a good photographer" Very Sir Humphrey Appleby.

Anyway wish you good luck in your search

[Athy]

At the end of a viewing of my boat I was selling a good few years ago the prospective buyer said "I thoroughly compliment you on being a good photographer" Very Sir Humphrey Appleby.

 

Marvellous! Back-handed compliment of the year.

[Athy]

 

 

One of the things that I discovered on my first boat viewing was just how different it was to the pictures and a hell of a lot more shabby. I noticed what was not in the photos and was also surprised by some bits that were not in there.

 

 

 

Yep, welcome to the wacky world of boat-hunting!

When viewing adverts, try to ask yourself, what is NOT included in the description or the photos. Examples may include no interior photos (repainted outside, shambles inside), no exterior photos (nice interior, plug-ugly boat), no photo of engine (is it rusty and bathing in a pool of oil?)...I think you get the idea.

If a boat is offered with a mooring, beware of the shot which shows a peaceful view of tree-lined fields with spray-on sheep just across the canal; just out of shot there may be St. Hades' Industrial Estate or the Merry Dumper tip recycling depot.