IanM Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yes you do! I was trying to be helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I always reckon take it slowly, don't overdo it on the power and if it all goes wrong you have plenty of time to back out of it and pretend that is what you intended to do all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p6rob Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Bet it wasnt as bad as this bugger which went two weeks ago... I find that corner far easier with a push pull gear rather than a morso or similar. You can keep the engine speed and give it bursts of forward /reverse to keep the boat swinging round. with your engine temperature, sounds like you still have an air bubble that needs bleeding somewhere, possibly skin tank. You definitely win with that one! As for the temperature; I think the prop is a bit fouled, just not badly enough for me to want to stick my arm in the cold cold water at the time. Must do something about that, though I've just booked a winter mooring in Cambrian wharf for January, so I shan't be moving very far during the next six weeks. Edited December 15, 2016 by p6rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 When a boat is stationary, applying 45 degrees of rudder and ahead power will cause the boat to pivot around a point roughly midships, but as forward speed is attained this pivot point moves forward. This is why almost stopping and then applying short bursts of power will enable a tighter turn. The optimum rudder angle will vary between boats but 45 degrees is a good place to start. Another way of looking at this is to observe how little the bow moves sideways when turning a bend at 4 mph compared to the stern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_P Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I would summarize this thread as "different boats handle differently". Sometimes I get round in one go, sometimes I don't. That junction is shallow with a lot of debris which doesn't help. Sometimes the wind is blowing the wrong way which doesn't help either. At least that's my excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Slightly off topic but I noticed with the Peter Le Marchant trip boat Symphony at the tight turn in Loughborough it handled differently depending where the passengers were. On a Sunny day with about ten people on the bow it was very different to when everyone was inside. I guess a full or empty water tank would have the same effect. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7766279,-1.212474,142m/data=!3m1!1e3 What I can't remember is if I could do it in one with people on the front or people inside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Pretty much as other have said, it's a case of slowing right down to nearly zero before starting the turn, then using plenty of power for the actual turn. Rudders differ but it's worth bearing in mind that too extreme a rudder position relative to the water flow causes it to stall and become less effective. I say relative to the water not the boat for a good reason - at the start of the turn, the back is going straight and a large rudder deflection will cause it to stall and be less effective. As the turn starts to tighten up the water flow is at an angle to the stern so at less of an angle to the rudder and hence the rudder deflection can be increased. It's always worth having a look at the water flow from the rudder when turning, and if it's nearly all coming out one side, that is good. If it's coming out both sides you have too much rudder on but due to the momentum (weight) of the water it will take a second or so to re-establish a reasonably laminar flow over the rudder after you've reduced or straightened it. So it is better to progressively increase the rudder as the turn starts to develop, and not go beyond about 60 degrees. You see some boats with their rudder over at nearly 90 degrees with water coming out both sides and barely turning. That's not the way to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tawny Owl Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I think we have gone round there towards Brum with our 70ft boat in one, but can't be entirely sure. it's as everyone says start very slow and put the power on to turn. Tawny does have good "brakes" though so if it's going wrong we can back out and correct fairly easily. Never done it in one turning towards Stratford though, we have to come so far out of the bridge that the bow is nearly on the shallows the other side once we can start to turn. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Pretty much as other have said, it's a case of slowing right down to nearly zero before starting the turn, then using plenty of power for the actual turn. Rudders differ but it's worth bearing in mind that too extreme a rudder position relative to the water flow causes it to stall and become less effective. I say relative to the water not the boat for a good reason - at the start of the turn, the back is going straight and a large rudder deflection will cause it to stall and be less effective. As the turn starts to tighten up the water flow is at an angle to the stern so at less of an angle to the rudder and hence the rudder deflection can be increased. It's always worth having a look at the water flow from the rudder when turning, and if it's nearly all coming out one side, that is good. If it's coming out both sides you have too much rudder on but due to the momentum (weight) of the water it will take a second or so to re-establish a reasonably laminar flow over the rudder after you've reduced or straightened it. So it is better to progressively increase the rudder as the turn starts to develop, and not go beyond about 60 degrees. You see some boats with their rudder over at nearly 90 degrees with water coming out both sides and barely turning. That's not the way to do it! ...obviously, it helps if your butler is pulling the front end round with the rope too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I haven't done that particular turn, but in general I find left-hand turns far easier than right-hand ones. Am I unique in this? That said, the only place where I almost always bump the side is that pig of a bridge immediately South of Marston Junction on the Coventry - but only when I am heading Northwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess-- Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Slightly off topic but I noticed with the Peter Le Marchant trip boat Symphony at the tight turn in Loughborough it handled differently depending where the passengers were. On a Sunny day with about ten people on the bow it was very different to when everyone was inside. I guess a full or empty water tank would have the same effect. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7766279,-1.212474,142m/data=!3m1!1e3 What I can't remember is if I could do it in one with people on the front or people inside! I do notice a difference on our boat when tanks are full vs empty, the boat is more nimble with water and pump out tank empty. it may also be worth noting that our rudder has a lot of leading edge and will not recenter when moving forwards (it also won't snap off to one side, it just wanders), this means that when we have the rudder hard over (anything up to about 80 degrees) it is diverting around 90% of the flow from the prop in the direction of the rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 I haven't done that particular turn, but in general I find left-hand turns far easier than right-hand ones. Am I unique in this? That said, the only place where I almost always bump the side is that pig of a bridge immediately South of Marston Junction on the Coventry - but only when I am heading Northwards. Possibly responding to prop. walk with a right handed propellor. What does it do in reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Possibly responding to prop. walk with a right handed propellor. What does it do in reverse?Like most n/b's - whatever it wants! - at least if I am steering. No, I think it's psychological rather than a mechanical thing. I haven't yet worked out the reference to Clyde. Has anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Athy, see post 18, the Clint Eastwood movie with the Orangutan called Clyde. The CE character used him as a sparring partner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Athy, see post 18, the Clint Eastwood movie with the Orangutan called Clyde. The CE character used him as a sparring partner!I did see the photo, but my knowledge of orang-utans' monikers is alas very limited. Thanks anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p6rob Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I did see the photo, but my knowledge of orang-utans' monikers is alas very limited. Thanks anyway! It's a reference to the film any which way but loose. In the film Clint Eastwood says "right turn Clyde" and his orangutan, Clyde, hits someone to his right. If he says "Left turn Clyde" Clyde hits someone to his left. My boat has a tendency to hit something on the left or right and occasionally straight on at that particular junction. I was practiced a low speed 'U' turn at Cambrian wharf this afternoon. Pulsing the throttle worked extremely well. So thanks everyone for that advice. Think I'll be trying that at the Ozells loop junction next. Rob a stationary manouvre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Turning left out of the Old Turn end of the Oozels Loop is a good one to try in one especially if there are moored boats around. Coming round with a pair makes it easier as the butty steerer can help turn the motor quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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