What are the basic requirments for the Thames?

[Froggy]

Hi folks. We're new to boating and plan to be bringing a boat down to Devizes from the London area. We're not sure right now at which point we'll join the Thames. Somebody said that a VHF radio and helmsman's certificate are essential for the Thames. Is this true for the entire river or, if not, at which point of the Thames do these become legal requirements? Thanks in advance for any advice.

[MtB]

Hi folks. We're new to boating and plan to be bringing a boat down to Devizes from the London area. We're not sure right now at which point we'll join the Thames. Somebody said that a VHF radio and helmsman's certificate are essential for the Thames. Is this true for the entire river or, if not, at which point of the Thames do these become legal requirements? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

You'll join the Kennet at Reading.

 

Tidal Thames finishes at Teddington.

 

Not sure about the need for VHF. I think it depends on boat size and I've an idea it is optional anyway. Sensible to have but not mandatory. Others will no doubt correct me on this!

I've not heard anything about a helmsman's stiffycate being required.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

You will be on the cannalised Thames so as long as the water level is ok you will have to buy a river licence for two days. The same flood conditions can happen on the K&A. mobile phone will be ok. Edit woops I got the idea you where at Oxford. Good anchor and chain ready to deploy and VHF if south of Brentford.

Edited October 15, 2016 by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

[by'eck]

EA licence, anchor and life jacket, although neither obligatory.

 

VHF only needed downstream of Brentford. I think there are no lock based VHF stations above Teddington anyway.

Edited October 15, 2016 by by'eck

[MtB]

 

VHF only needed downstream of Brentford.

 

 

Yes but by 'needed', do you mean VHF is mandatory or just a good idea?

[OldGoat]

Mike the Boilerman, on 15 Oct 2016 - 1:16 PM, said:

 

You'll join the Kennet at Reading.

 

Tidal Thames finishes at Teddington.

 

Not sure about the need for VHF. I think it depends on boat size and I've an idea it is optional anyway. Sensible to have but not mandatory. Others will no doubt correct me on this!

I've not heard anything about a helmsman's stiffycate being required.

Nothing is simple -

boats over 45 foot (approx.) are required by PLA to keep a listening watch on VHF channel xx ( ? 14 ?) In an emergency you can / should call them on the VHF. Strictly speaking you don't need to haver a licence to call them.

I won't go into more details 'cos I don't think coming upriver from Limehouse is a good idea for an absolute beginner.

Better to enter the River at Brentford - for which you don't need VHF (which doesn't work very well there anyway).

You need -

a substantial anchor,

30m of strong rope

life jackets.

 

The river is still tidal at Brentford, so your transit between Brentford and Teddington is subject to the tides and the time when Brentford lockkeeper is prepared to open it (i.e. not at dead of night).

 

Either transit is great if the weather is good and scary (for anybody) if not.

 

You will need a short term licence for your trip from Teddington to Reading - which you can purchase from T-L.

Even though the Thames at that point is 'canalised' it is subject to quite strong flows if there has been a lot of rain (what's that??)

There are some winter works on the River from November to February 2016/17. When do you plan to go?

[MtB]

Hi folks. We're new to boating and plan to be bringing a boat down to Devizes from the London area. We're not sure right now at which point we'll join the Thames.

 

 

Oops I misread that initially. Whereabouts in London is the boat now?

[Leo No2]

Might be worthwhile looking at http://www.thamescruising.co.uk/wordpress/

[magnetman]

One essential thing is for the locks to be open.

 

Apparently one of the locks in Windsor is closed all winter from 1st November.

 

I imagine you will have checked this already but just thought to mention in case you hadn't

 

(PS I see already mentioned previously)

[Neil2]

Presumably this is still current https://www.waterways.org.uk/waterways/canals_rivers/river_thames_tidal/thames_tideway_guide_2_downstream

[magnetman]

Also there may be some stoppages on K&A. Its a fairly long trip - canalplan says about 10 days Brentford- Devizes but as you will be going upstream all the way (the Thames and then the Kennet) you are definitely subject to delays if there is any significant rain.

 

Do-able but asap I would suggest.

 

You don't need a helmsman certificate but if new to boating altogether it is going to be a "baptism of fire" in some ways !

If the boat is in east London its another 2 days to get to brentford by canal (worth doing that rather than the tidewY out of Limehouse - this time of year its not very nice out in the pool of London!!

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[MtB]

Given the OP is a total newbie and is rapidly running out of time due to stoppages, the best option is a crane and a lorry in my opinion.

[Froggy]

One essential thing is for the locks to be open.

 

Apparently one of the locks in Windsor is closed all winter from 1st November.

 

I imagine you will have checked this already but just thought to mention in case you hadn't

 

(PS I see already mentioned previously)

 

 

Whoops, no, we'd overlooked this!!! We were aware of Woolhampton lock on the K&A closing on 7th. November but had been completely unaware of this one (i've just checked on the gov.uk site and you are indeed right. Thanks very much for this information).

 

Given the OP is a total newbie and is rapidly running out of time due to stoppages, the best option is a crane and a lorry in my opinion.

 

You may well be right Mike. My partner is against this due to cost but it's now becoming a more attractive proposition imo. But what is the cost? It's two or three grand as far as i'm aware, including craning in and out. Can anybody recommend a competitive and reliable haulier? With regard to where the boat is, it's currently on the Lea navigation in Hertfordshire.

 

[Froggy]

Thanks very much to everybody who has responded to this thread, this is all extremely useful information to us as novices. This forum is an absolute mine of great advice and knowledge, and i hope to both make use of it and also contribute with my own input as the weeks and months go by.

[steamcompound]

Nothing is simple -

boats over 45 foot (approx.) are required by PLA to keep a listening watch on VHF channel xx ( ? 14 ?) In an emergency you can / should call them on the VHF. Strictly speaking you don't need to haver a licence to call them.

I won't go into more details 'cos I don't think coming upriver from Limehouse is a good idea for an absolute beginner.

Better to enter the River at Brentford - for which you don't need VHF (which doesn't work very well there anyway).

You need -

a substantial anchor,

30m of strong rope

life jackets.

 

The river is still tidal at Brentford, so your transit between Brentford and Teddington is subject to the tides and the time when Brentford lockkeeper is prepared to open it (i.e. not at dead of night).

 

Either transit is great if the weather is good and scary (for anybody) if not.

 

You will need a short term licence for your trip from Teddington to Reading - which you can purchase from T-L.

Even though the Thames at that point is 'canalised' it is subject to quite strong flows if there has been a lot of rain (what's that??)

There are some winter works on the River from November to February 2016/17. When do you plan to go?

Failure to hold a valid licence is a criminal offence and Ofcom's enforcement team can impose on-the-spot fines. The maximum penalty on conviction is a£5,000 fine and/or a six month prison sentence. Those convicted may also be ordered to forfeit any radio apparatus used illegally.

[MtB]

 

You may well be right Mike. My partner is against this due to cost but it's now becoming a more attractive proposition imo. But what is the cost? It's two or three grand as far as i'm aware, including craning in and out. Can anybody recommend a competitive and reliable haulier? With regard to where the boat is, it's currently on the Lea navigation in Hertfordshire.

 

 

that's a long old trip then you need to be getting on with it right now if you're going this side of winter.

 

Tuckeys are the 'go to' lifters and boat movers in this business. Google them. They'll tell you where it can be lifted out and put back in too. I'd guess about £500 at each end for the lifting anfd £1k for the lorry.

 

Or see if Matty40s or Nigel Carton on here (both professional boat movers) are available to move it by water immediately for you.

[Bee]

Yes, go from Brentford, take advice from the lock keeper as regards times etc, I would borrow an anchor or have a good length of rope and a huge chunk of something heavy to lob over the side, just in case. The rest of the river is really lovely as is the Kennet and Avon. Good luck.

[magnetman]

 

 

Whoops, no, we'd overlooked this!!! We were aware of Woolhampton lock on the K&A closing on 7th. November but had been completely unaware of this one (i've just checked on the gov.uk site and you are indeed right. Thanks very much for this information).

 

 

You may well be right Mike. My partner is against this due to cost but it's now becoming a more attractive proposition imo. But what is the cost? It's two or three grand as far as i'm aware, including craning in and out. Can anybody recommend a competitive and reliable haulier? With regard to where the boat is, it's currently on the Lea navigation in Hertfordshire.

 

On the bright side Windsor (I think there is another one at Sonning) is only about 4 or 5 days from east London (if going through town by canal - factoring in the possible delay getting a good tide time to go out of Brentford) so there is time to do it before the stoppage. If the weather stays nice it'd be a lovely trip.

 

Going by canal through London would be good boating practice in a safe environment and if you just didn't fancy it just turn right at Bulls bridge up to Watford where P&S Marine can crane (most) boats onto a vehicle.

Or head onto the Thames and see how it goes but if you did get stopped by the closure at Old Windsor then you may have to go back down to find a crane. Depends on the size of the boat. penton hook marina can lift quite big boats and so can shepperton but not sure on their capacity.

Is it a narrow boat - how long? Do you know about the engine and reliability ?

Just noticed "Lea Navigation in Herts" so not east London so maybe another day or two.

Or more..

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[Froggy]

 

that's a long old trip then you need to be getting on with it right now if you're going this side of winter.

 

Tuckeys are the 'go to' lifters and boat movers in this business. Google them. They'll tell you where it can be lifted out and put back in too. I'd guess about £500 at each end for the lifting anfd £1k for the lorry.

 

Or see if Matty40s or Nigel Carton on here (both professional boat movers) are available to move it by water immediately for you.

 

Thanks very much for this Mike, i will start making serious enquiries on Monday. We could i guess just have it transported part of the way, perhaps either having the boat put in at the beginning of the K&A at Reading or maybe also circumventing the Woolhampton lock and swingbridge closures on the K&A. Do you reckon there would be any worthwhile savings to be made having the boat put in just west of Woolhampton rather than having it transported all the way to either Semington or Devizes?

 

On the bright side Windsor (I think there is another one at Sonning) is only about 4 or 5 days from east London (if going through town by canal - factoring in the possible delay getting a good tide time to go out of Brentford) so there is time to do it before the stoppage. If the weather stays nice it'd be a lovely trip.

 

Going by canal through London would be good boating practice in a safe environment and if you just didn't fancy it just turn right at Bulls bridge up to Watford where P&S Marine can crane (most) boats onto a vehicle.

Or head onto the Thames and see how it goes but if you did get stopped by the closure at Old Windsor then you may have to go back down to find a crane. Depends on the size of the boat. penton hook marina can lift quite big boats and so can shepperton but not sure on their capacity.

Is it a narrow boat - how long? Do you know about the engine and reliability ?

Just noticed "Lea Navigation in Herts" so not east London so maybe another day or two.

Or more..

 

Yeah, i've just noticed the Sonning closure too, which i think is near Reading, so all of a sudden none of the Thames section of the journey looks very viable, especially as novices and with the tight time contstraints :-(

 

The boat (subject to survey) is 60ft, with a Barrus Shire engine delivering either 40 or 45hp, but we have no experience of its reliability.

 

[magnetman]

Call P&S marine in Watford I think they are your best option.

They will know a trucking company for delivery to K&A. Probably best get it all the way in one hit or sods law might come into it !

Sonning would be the last lock on the Thames before entering the Kennet.

There may be a yard on the Lea or Stort who can do it but I am not aware of one. Unless you get a mobile crane in to do it.

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[Froggy]

Call P&S marine in Watford I think they are your best option.

They will know a trucking company for delivery to K&A. Probably best get it all the way in one hit or sods law might come into it !

Sonning would be the last lock on the Thames before entering the Kennet.

There may be a yard on the Lea or Stort who can do it but I am not aware of one. Unless you get a mobile crane in to do it.

 

Thanks for this, magnetman. I will phone around on Monday and both P&S Marine and Tuckeys will be at the top of the list.

[ditchcrawler]

Yes, go from Brentford, take advice from the lock keeper as regards times etc, I would borrow an anchor or have a good length of rope and a huge chunk of something heavy to lob over the side, just in case. The rest of the river is really lovely as is the Kennet and Avon. Good luck.

This will tell you the times for locking out of Brentford https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/thumbnail/25271-thames-lock-brentford-availability-2016.pdf

[Peter X]

Moving the boat yourselves will be much cheaper than using a lorry, it'll be an opportunity to get to know your boat, and above all it'll be fun. However:

 

Definitely go through the canals to come out on the river at Brentford, as others have suggested, and treat the first part of the trip from the Lea to Brentford as a useful training period. The bit from Brentford up to Teddington is much easier than coming up from Limehouse. Just plan for the tide times, have lifejackets, take care not to fall in anyway, and look out for all the rowers, canoes etc.

 

You need to be confident of your engine, and the boat in general, before going onto a river. But if it doesn't fail before Brentford that would suggest your chances are good.

 

You need to have the time to do the trip and get past the Thames winter stoppages before 1st November. Once you're off onto the K&A and subject to any planned winter stoppages there, you might like to do the rest of the journey to Devizes in stages.

 

It's a good idea to have someone aboard with some experience of rivers; try "The Boater" on here, or find someone else through Crew Swap. I feel I could do it, as I'm just back from a 9 day trip which included going up the Nene and I have done Brentford to Reading once, however please see me as a last resort because I need some time at home to sort things out after a summer of boating!

 

You don't need a licence for the PLA part (the tidal river up to Teddington) but from there up to Reading you need a temporary EA licence; allow 3 or 4 days for that and make sure you're moored up before dark each night.

 

The Thames (and the eastern end of the K&A) can flood forcing you to cancel the trip, but it's unlikely and you would get warning in the form of yellow/red boards and advice from lockkeepers.

[Froggy]

Moving the boat yourselves will be much cheaper than using a lorry, it'll be an opportunity to get to know your boat, and above all it'll be fun. However:

 

Definitely go through the canals to come out on the river at Brentford, as others have suggested, and treat the first part of the trip from the Lea to Brentford as a useful training period. The bit from Brentford up to Teddington is much easier than coming up from Limehouse. Just plan for the tide times, have lifejackets, take care not to fall in anyway, and look out for all the rowers, canoes etc.

 

You need to be confident of your engine, and the boat in general, before going onto a river. But if it doesn't fail before Brentford that would suggest your chances are good.

 

You need to have the time to do the trip and get past the Thames winter stoppages before 1st November. Once you're off onto the K&A and subject to any planned winter stoppages there, you might like to do the rest of the journey to Devizes in stages.

 

It's a good idea to have someone aboard with some experience of rivers; try "The Boater" on here, or find someone else through Crew Swap. I feel I could do it, as I'm just back from a 9 day trip which included going up the Nene and I have done Brentford to Reading once, however please see me as a last resort because I need some time at home to sort things out after a summer of boating!

 

You don't need a licence for the PLA part (the tidal river up to Teddington) but from there up to Reading you need a temporary EA licence; allow 3 or 4 days for that and make sure you're moored up before dark each night.

 

The Thames (and the eastern end of the K&A) can flood forcing you to cancel the trip, but it's unlikely and you would get warning in the form of yellow/red boards and advice from lockkeepers.

 

Thanks for all this useful advice and your kind offer. At the moment having the boat trailered is looking like the most attractive proposition but we'll keep all options open for the time being. Much will depend on how quickly we can get the boat surveyed (and also, ideally, blacked). No doubt by the spring we will have the experience and confidence to tackle greater challenges, and also intend by then to have taken the YHA helmsman's course.

[mark99]

A little thing to watch out for is that you could fall for the Brentford sucker punch. Although unlikely as it does depend upon rainfall/timing.

 

In summer we had a torrential downpour over a few days but thought nowt of it. We left Teddington Lock for our transit down to Brentford in the normal way.

 

As we turned <skidded> into the River Brent at Brentford, I did the customary "phew" we are out of the aggro - but we found it very hard to get up the Brent cos the Brent was running real hard (it's a spate type river that flushes through at some speed if a cloudburst - but it drops real quick too). Just when you think it's over!

Edited October 15, 2016 by mark99