New(ish) Vetus Bow Thruster (BOW9512C) not working

[Daltonia]

I've just bought a boat built in 2014. The bow thruster is not working. Here is what happens:

1. I switch it on at the stern control unit (two pushes of the button) and the green LED lights

2. I push one of the direction buttons and nothing happens except a clicking sound that can be heard from the bow, near to where the thruster is located

 

I've checked the 5 amp blade fuse indicated and it is OK. When the boat was out of the water recently I checked for any blockages in the propeller area, but all was OK and the propeller could be spun easily. Any ideas on how I should proceed with finding the problem? Many thanks for any help.

[Alan de Enfield]

Flat battery ?

[nicknorman]

The red T handle is the bow thruster battery isolator. Is it turned on?

 

Are the bow thruster batteries charged (check the voltage with a meter)?

 

Is there 12v on the fat connections either side of the yellow thruster motor (under the red and black rubber covers)?

Edited August 30, 2016 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

Is there 12v on the fat connections either side of the yellow thruster motor (under the red and black rubber covers)?

... when one of the direction buttons is being pushed.

[adrianh]

It looks like you have a high current fuse in the line just before the isolator ( with cable tie around), check that this has not blown. Also do not assume that the isolating switch has not burnout, it looks vary undersized for the possible load of this motor.

[nicknorman]

... when one of the direction buttons is being pushed.

I'm not familiar with this bow thruster but it looks to me like those connections go to the batteries. The gubbins in front of that is the direction relay and I think the various black wires are the actual supply to the motor.

[Iain_S]

The clicking sound will be the relays. Most likely, either the battery is a bit flat, or there is a bad connection somewhere. Unlkely to be faulty relay(s), if the same thing happens in both directions.

How are the batteries charged? If in parallel with a domestic bank, or through a diode splitter, they may not be getting a good charge.

 

(A trip boat I skipper had a similar set up, and it always gave problems. The last time it broke was about 2 years ago. It hasn't broken since, because we didn't bother repairing it )

[Tiggs]

Get out you multimeter and see how far the voltage is going.

 

Haven't got one?

 

Suggest if you own a boat you ought to get one.

[WotEver]

I'm not familiar with this bow thruster but it looks to me like those connections go to the batteries. The gubbins in front of that is the direction relay and I think the various black wires are the actual supply to the motor.

Actually yes, looks like you're right.

 

I suspect either flat batteries or faulty isolator.

[Sea Dog]

 

I've checked the 5 amp blade fuse indicated and it is OK.

That's the control side fuse, and this is to be expected with the clicking noises and control unit beeping confirming that that side of the circuit appears to be at least live if not ok.

 

Sounds like the high power side has a problem, and that's fed by the big fuse (100s of amps) below the red T handle. Check that the T handle is 'ON' as Nick suggested - it looks like it is because it is in line with the wiring as opposed to across it which ought to be off, but stranger things have happened and that's one reason why you need a voltmeter as Tiggs pointed out.

 

My first thought, however, would be a flat battery as others have suggested: that voltmeter is really earning it's keep today!

[Murflynn]

I had the same problems with a vetus.

the cause was low voltage at the contactor terminals.

the current demand is so big that it will draw down the volts to the point that the contactor chatters but does not make a proper contact, burning the silver contacts in the process.

 

my solution -

- contacted Allbright International who provided replacement contacts for a few quid (not vetus who would charge hundreds).

- ensured that I had a dedicated battery adjacent to the thruster, which was kept fully charged.

[pearley]

The feed for the operating switch is from the bow thruster battery so if the switch lights up then the main fuse is ok. That white 4 pin plug goes to the switch and has feed, earth and left right in it. Easier to do your checks by shorting across these with a bit of wire rather than having to shout the length of the boat to press it now.

 

My checks, in order, would be flat battery, bad isolator (join the cables to check) or burnt contacts.

 

Another vote for All bright.

[Daltonia]

Thank you for the very helpful replies. I've done a little more checking.

1. I uncoupled all leads from the two batteries and checked their voltage. The port-side gave 11.9v and the starboard-side gave 12.7v.

2. I checked the T-handle isolator was on.

3. I checked the big fuse adjacent to the T-handle isolator and it is fine.

4. I checked the voltage with the multimeter probes positioned as indicated in the image below and got a reading of 12.5v.

5. I checked each of the eight carbon brushes. All are clean and way above their minimum length.

 

Still all that happens is a clicking noise when either of the bow thruster direction buttons are pressed. Any further ideas?

[Alan de Enfield]

Thank you for the very helpful replies. I've done a little more checking.

1. I uncoupled all leads from the two batteries and checked their voltage. The port-side gave 11.9v and the starboard-side gave 12.7v.

2. I checked the T-handle isolator was on.

3. I checked the big fuse adjacent to the T-handle isolator and it is fine.

4. I checked the voltage with the multimeter probes positioned as indicated in the image below and got a reading of 12.5v.

5. I checked each of the eight carbon brushes. All are clean and way above their minimum length.

 

Still all that happens is a clicking noise when either of the bow thruster direction buttons are pressed. Any further ideas?

 

1) Motor corroded and seized due to lack of use.

2) Motor burned out due to excessive use.

3) Battery capacity seriously compromised due to insufficient charging and not enough 'juice' to turn the motor.

 

What is the voltage reading when you 'press the buttons' at :

1) The battery

2) The motor terminals

 

The 11.9 v battery is probably knackered.

[nicknorman]

Thank you for the very helpful replies. I've done a little more checking.

1. I uncoupled all leads from the two batteries and checked their voltage. The port-side gave 11.9v and the starboard-side gave 12.7v.

2. I checked the T-handle isolator was on.

3. I checked the big fuse adjacent to the T-handle isolator and it is fine.

4. I checked the voltage with the multimeter probes positioned as indicated in the image below and got a reading of 12.5v.

5. I checked each of the eight carbon brushes. All are clean and way above their minimum length.

 

Still all that happens is a clicking noise when either of the bow thruster direction buttons are pressed. Any further ideas?

Firstly, a battery showing 11.9v is completely flat. If it was properly connected and being charged it must be totally knackered.

 

I can't quite see from the pictures but are we right to think the batteries are in parallel giving 12v overall, and not in series giving 24v overall?

 

Can you measure the voltage as per the photo, whilst someone is pressing the button? Could be a high resistance connection somewhere that allows 12v through with no load, but plummets when there is load.

[Alan de Enfield]

Are the 'thin' red & black wires (connected to the batteries + & -) the battery charger cables ?

Do they run the full length of the boat ?

What voltage do you get out of them with the engine/alternator running ?

[Murflynn]

fault is low voltage - possibly/potentially associated with burnt contactor surfaces.

 

low voltage resulting from flat battery/ies and/or bad connections.

 

as noted above - check the voltage across the contactor when the switch is depressed. I'll bet it's less than 10v.

[Jrtm]

Not very helpfull more toung in cheek coment.

 

Use a pole.

[Chertsey]

Or learn to steer? Then you wouldn't have to worry about it at all and could get that nasty rust trap welded up.

[nicknorman]

Or learn to steer?

Funnily enough, I recall a town class historic boat turning into the marina during the Braunston parade a few years ago, failing to make the subsequent left turn properly and colliding with and demolishing the "Keep Left" sign on the end one of the pontoons. Clearly a bow thruster would have been useful on that occasion, although it was interesting to note that the preceding huge historic boat being driven by a tiny 12 year old boy had made the turn cleanly.

 

 

 

Or to put it another way, something about glass houses and stones!

[Daltonia]

Thank you for the very helpful comments. Some progress:

1. The batteries are wired in parallel

2. The live connector of the port-side battery was rusty and loose, so I cleaned it up (yesterday)

3. Today, when the batteries are disconnected from everything, I get voltage readings of 12.75v (port-side battery) and 12.89v (starboard-side battery)

4. The thin red and black wires are the charger cables. When disconnected from the batteries they have voltage readings of 13.38v (engine not running) and 14.46v (engine running).

5. At the thruster motor contacts, the voltage is now 12.85v (engine not running) and 13.51v (engine running).

6. When a bow thruster direction button is pressed, the voltage at the motor contacts reduces from 13.51v to 13.44v

 

Still the bow thruster does not work (just clicking when the direction buttons are pressed). Any further thoughts?

p.s. the thinnest red and black cables go to a bilge pump

[nicknorman]

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to help you much further as I've never taken one of those to bits and not even totally sure what type of motor it is. But can I just mention that you get 10/10 for providing clear information in answer to our various questions - a rare thing on here!

 

So it seems the power is getting there, but something within the box of tricks isn't working. Is it the relays or the actual motor?

 

Maybe try this: in the photo with the motor's lid off there are the 2 semicircular conductors that connect the brushes opposite each other. 1/ Are you getting 12v between these two conductors (ie between 2 brushes at 90 degrees to each other) when the BT button is pressed? And 12v of the opposite polarity when the other button is pressed?

 

2/ looking at the relay section, there are 4 terminals (ie threaded studs/nuts) on top. Not them, but at the sides and lower down are the places where wires connect and disappear into the guts of the motor, one on the left and one on the right. Are you getting 12v across these studs when a BT button I pressed, and 12v of the opposite polarity when the other button is pressed?

 

If the answer to both these is yes then I'm inclined to think there is a winding fault in the stator (and I'm assuming it isn't a permanent magnet motor).

 

If the answer to both is no then I'm inclined to think there is a fault in the relay section.

 

But to be honest, I'm rather clutching at straws in the absence of being able to poke around with a meter myself!

Edited September 1, 2016 by nicknorman

[nicknorman]

Oh and last point, I'd say that if and when you do get it working, there may be a bit of an issue with the charging. The charging wires are pretty thin and there will be a fair bit of voltage drop between the engine and the BT. Of course eventually, it will fully charge the batteries, but if you are a frequent BT user I think you'll find that you take more out of the batteries than those wires can put back in, and that is never a good thing!

[Jrtm]

I am more inclined after reading that the thing is seised the buzz you can here is the electric running thew the contacts on the motor you may find turning by hand frees it but you may then find leave it a week and it will stop. Either that or something is trapped in the blades big bit of weed maybe

[Murflynn]

is the clicking continuous or just one click?

 

continuous would suggest the contactor is not seeing enough volts and/or the the silver contact surfaces are burnt.