Changes to BSS regs for RCD's ?

[Robbo]

Even if it was compulsory, given the quote above it would only require a look at the shore power cable to determine no heat damage to warrant a pass.

Bit daft the BSS, all the advisory stuff of the AC looks very good, like been only have AC source at a time, using correct female/male leads, but it's all advisory, so I can just say thank you BSS man and ignore it and still have some dangerous shore lead hanging around!

[Lampyrichard]

In the 2005 BSS it's quoted in 3.5.1

Quote

rated less than the current-carrying capacity of the cable protected;

Yes, but the crux of the argument is that MCBs & fuses aren't designed to protect upstream cables, so even the 2005 wording wouldn't cause this particular fail.

 

 

[Guest]

In the 2005 BSS it's quoted in 3.5.1

 

Quote

Yes, but the crux of the argument is that MCBs & fuses aren't designed to protect upstream cables, so even the 2005 wording wouldn't cause this particular fail.

 

 

An upstream cable wouldn't be protected by a downstream fuse in the event of a fault, but it would prevent possible overload current in the cable. Not a good way of achieving this, though. Something of a cart before the horse situation. I agree it couldn't cause tis particular fail, and it seems odd to say the least.

If I were really concerned about this, (which I'm not) I would connect a fuse into my shoreline just after the plug (pillar end.)

Edited August 8, 2016 by Guest

[Keeping Up]

I also await Rob's response most eagerly. Thanks for bringing it to his attention (I've had no signal most of today)

 

Incidentally with 2.5 mm cable the rating is far above 16 amp so it is the connector itself which is the limiting feature.

[Guest]

I also await Rob's response most eagerly. Thanks for bringing it to his attention (I've had no signal most of today)

 

Incidentally with 2.5 mm cable the rating is far above 16 amp so it is the connector itself which is the limiting feature.

I was thinking about this. Even 1.5 flex scrapes in at 16A so in your case the cable is not an issue (when connected to a 16A breaker.)

[nbfiresprite]

Popped into Peterborough's Building Control Office at lunch to enquire about the rules and regulations as regards an outdoor socket near water. According to Building Control under BS7671 circuits of special locations are to be RCD protected and if an iindustrial electrical (IP44/IP67 16/32 amp) socket is used it should also be protected by a MCB at the socket rating. Even with a standard outdoor 13amp socket it is best practice for the socket to be protected by its own FUSE or MCB. So therefore the shoreline is protected.

 

As to the examiner I would ask what qualifications he has in electrical matters.

[Tony Brooks]

I find it rather sad that the BSS office seem to have not responded to this. They seem keen to use the forum to get their "messages" out but do not explain why this is a failure under the regs.

[Chewbacka]

 

I find it rather sad that the BSS office seem to have not responded to this. They seem keen to use the forum to get their "messages" out but do not explain why this is a failure under the regs.

 

Hopefully they will give us an answer during office hour tomorrow

[nicknorman]

I suppose it is holiday season.

[Chewbacka]

I suppose it is holiday season.

Maybe they are all out boating.

[BruceinSanity]

Is the examiner confusing BSS with RCD? ISTR there's an RCD requirement for an ELCB/MCB within 1 metre of the shoreline inlet.

[Keith M]

I believe there have been some staff changes within the BSS office this may be the reason?

 

Keith

[Iain_S]

(snip)

Although I still struggle to see how downstream devices are supposed to protect upstream equipment

 

Richard

 

It would protect the upstream cable against downstream faults. Similarly, the 60A fuse before the meter in our house supply protects the Electricity Board's cable. I agree that it's not a BSS fail, though. An advisory at the most.

 

Iain

[WotEver]

My PM to Rob has not been read. My email to the enquiries email addy has not been replied to. So I don't know what's happening.

 

Tony

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks - at least you tried.

[ditchcrawler]

My PM to Rob has not been read. My email to the enquiries email addy has not been replied to. So I don't know what's happening.

 

Tony

He has been on facebook about CO poisoning

[MtB]

Obviously if you make up a cable with a 32A connector at the source end and a 16A connector at the boat end, and don't contemplate the consequences, you are a silly billy.

 

 

When I moored in T&K at Reading, they supplied exactly such adaptors fre of charge to all the moorers whose 16A shorelines would not fit the 32A sockets on the bollards.

[widebeamboy]

 

 

When I moored in T&K at Reading, they supplied exactly such adaptors fre of charge to all the moorers whose 16A shorelines would not fit the 32A sockets on the bollards.

 

They do it at Limehouse too. I've been watching this thread with some interest as well I am in exactly the same boat, however I haven't yet worked out what I could do to mitigate the risks with my own situation.

 

I am on a 32a bollard, made my own 32a cable to a 16a to go into my boat socket. In a nutshell don't have a choice really, however what can I check to ally my fears, or what can I upgrade to mitigate issues? Bear in mind I have a dual element calorifier, full size dishwasher and washing machine onboard (its a big WB)

 

My original plan was to replace the 16a socket with a 32a one, however no-one makes one that is recessed with a flap so I would need to do some adapation to the tower. I assume I need to check the size of cables from where the supply goes into the boat and then feeds the fuseboard and then check items in the fusebox, but what? Obviously I can if needed get an electrician in, not always the simplest thing to do in London.

 

I know there are many in same position of me where I am so the thoughts of the group would be appreciated.

[nicknorman]

When I moored in T&K at Reading, they supplied exactly such adaptors fre of charge to all the moorers whose 16A shorelines would not fit the 32A sockets on the bollards.

So it then comes down to the size of breaker in the bollard. If 32A they were being foolish.

[nicknorman]

They do it at Limehouse too. I've been watching this thread with some interest as well I am in exactly the same boat, however I haven't yet worked out what I could do to mitigate the risks with my own situation.

 

I am on a 32a bollard, made my own 32a cable to a 16a to go into my boat socket. In a nutshell don't have a choice really, however what can I check to ally my fears, or what can I upgrade to mitigate issues? Bear in mind I have a dual element calorifier, full size dishwasher and washing machine onboard (its a big WB)

 

My original plan was to replace the 16a socket with a 32a one, however no-one makes one that is recessed with a flap so I would need to do some adapation to the tower. I assume I need to check the size of cables from where the supply goes into the boat and then feeds the fuseboard and then check items in the fusebox, but what? Obviously I can if needed get an electrician in, not always the simplest thing to do in London.

 

I know there are many in same position of me where I am so the thoughts of the group would be appreciated.

If you want to upgrade to a 32A boat system you would have to review (and most probably replace) all the cabling in the boat. With 16A boat systems it is common to select cable to sockets etc that can handle 16A but not much more. If you wanted to upgrade to a 32A system then you would have to bear in mind that a spur feeding a double socket might have to pass 26A (2 x 13A). Alternatively you could leave the 16A breaker(s) in place and just upgrade the bit between the new socket and the consumer unit.

 

Of course if you just have a single 16A breaker then there is no safety issue with leaving things as they are.

[widebeamboy]

If you want to upgrade to a 32A boat system you would have to review (and most probably replace) all the cabling in the boat. With 16A boat systems it is common to select cable to sockets etc that can handle 16A but not much more. If you wanted to upgrade to a 32A system then you would have to bear in mind that a spur feeding a double socket might have to pass 26A (2 x 13A). Alternatively you could leave the 16A breaker(s) in place and just upgrade the bit between the new socket and the consumer unit.

 

Of course if you just have a single 16A breaker then there is no safety issue with leaving things as they are.

 

Many thanks, I will have a look at the bollard and the breakers in the boat (there are quite a few of them) and take it from there.

[Robbo]

 

Many thanks, I will have a look at the bollard and the breakers in the boat (there are quite a few of them) and take it from there.

It's quite easy to rewire a consumer unit so one of the (or additional) is the feed from the shoreline and feeds the others.

[widebeamboy]

It's quite easy to rewire a consumer unit so one of the (or additional) is the feed from the shoreline and feeds the others.

 

Interesting, if I understand that then you would run the correct cable from boat input in sutiable 32a rated cable, run into 32a breaker in the board and then run this to the individual breakers. I'd probably get someone in to do this as putting in a new radial circuit is easy enough (currently in process of doing so) however this might be a little more tricky.

[Robbo]

 

Interesting, if I understand that then you would run the correct cable from boat input in sutiable 32a rated cable, run into 32a breaker in the board and then run this to the individual breakers. I'd probably get someone in to do this as putting in a new radial circuit is easy enough (currently in process of doing so) however this might be a little more tricky.

Should have read white I wrote as I missed out the word MCB but you get the idea. If any cable/sockets are designed for 16amp but supplied by a 32amp shore feed you can add a 16amp MCB at your consumer box that the shore feed goes through to feed your other MCB's. It will then protect the upstream cable/socket if you overload them.

 

The limiting factor may be a Isolation Transformer or Combi as these will be at whatever rate, but then if you have any of these your limiting the shore power anyhow!

Edited August 10, 2016 by Robbo

[widebeamboy]

thanks for all of that, yes I think they are rated at 16a as it would explain why the inverter throws a bit of a paddy if the kettle is put on when the boss lady is using the industrial sewing machine. The new radial circuit I am installing is planned for the sewing machine and spare sockets in the bedroom to split the load as am conscious is potentially quite a lot on one breaker.

 

When you say upgrade to a 32a socket, I take it you mean the blue things as opposed to some sort of magic 32a three pin socket regular? That might sound daft question however I genuinely dont know and have never seen one when Ive been googling 32a sockets previously.

 

I think the upshot of all this advice is to get a professional in to review my exisiting wiring (its only 3.5 years old and looks very professionally fitted out) and my needs as I am marina based and we rarely cruise. I know some people might be aghast at that, however it is perfect for us, we get an exceptionally good commute to our work, our greys are chilled at home, the boat is safe (relatively) and we have amazing thoughtful neighbours.