billS Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 After many years faultless service, my Travelpower has developed a strange fault. When the engine is cold, it appears to work as normal. When switched on it delivers 230 volts and will accept a load - Mrs S's hairdryer for instance. After about 20 minutes, the volt meter starts to flicker, then the voltage dies away to more or less zero and the switch light and the panel lights go off. Switching off then on again shows it to be dead. However, the alternator(?) on the engine is still delivering 15 volts to the box when it is switched on. The box is completely isolated from the engine and is not affected by the temperature of the engine bay. When the engine is cold in the morning, we get a repeat performance with 230 volts being delivered for 15-20 minutes. Has anybody any idea what could be causing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Do the brushes and maybe sliprings need replacing? Also, its a good idea to get the alternator inspected and rebuild every couple of thousand hours. The belt needs to be tight and that gives the bearings a hard life. Is it a black box or silver box jobbie? Can you start the engine from cold with the TP turned off, get the engine hot, then turn the TP on, and tell us what happens please? ..................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Sounds like the brushes to me. You mention 15v but in fact the travelpower alternator should put out 300v or so into the "magic box" so be careful - that is "ouch" level of voltage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billS Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Dave It's a black box jobbie - probably circa 2000/1, and I don't have a manual for it. The TP is normally switched off - I only switch it on when I actually need it (washing machine or wife's hairdrier whilst on the move). Starting the engine from cold with the TP turned off then turning it on when the engine is hot gives no response. Since the initial failure (whilst using the washing machine a week or so ago) it only seems to work when the engine is cold, so the failure appears like a temperature, rather than a time phenomenon. Nick, Interesting, I had been told that the TP was essentially an unregulated 15V alternator delivering to a separate large inverter (in the black box). Your comment seems to debunk that! Edited June 26, 2016 by billS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceinSanity Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Sounds like it's time to take it all out and send it to Cox's for overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Nick, Interesting, I had been told that the TP was essentially an unregulated 15V alternator delivering to a separate large inverter (in the black box). Your comment seems to debunk that! Well I can only tell you about our 2011 TP which is 300v. You just have to look at the size of the alternator - at 3.5kw, smaller than our ~2kw 12v alternator. Based on the amount of copper windings required to pass the relevant current, the TP must be less current which means much higher voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Nick, Interesting, I had been told that the TP was essentially an unregulated 15V alternator delivering to a separate large inverter (in the black box). Your comment seems to debunk that! The similar Dynawatt also employs a ~ 300v alternator feeding a remote inverter. Don't see how it could be so compact otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess-- Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 re: the 15v vs 300v question could the 15v reading be the result of trying to read and AC voltage with a meter set on DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Dave It's a black box jobbie - probably circa 2000/1, and I don't have a manual for it. The TP is normally switched off - I only switch it on when I actually need it (washing machine or wife's hairdrier whilst on the move). Starting the engine from cold with the TP turned off then turning it on when the engine is hot gives no response. Since the initial failure (whilst using the washing machine a week or so ago) it only seems to work when the engine is cold, so the failure appears like a temperature, rather than a time phenomenon. Nick, Interesting, I had been told that the TP was essentially an unregulated 15V alternator delivering to a separate large inverter (in the black box). Your comment seems to debunk that! The alternator produces about 300v (three phase) like Nick says. The field current is controlled by the black box to control this voltage. So do take care when measuring voltages. I was thinking it might just be a warming up fault in the black box itself due to self heat, but from what you say it really sounds like an issue in the alternator so this is most likely the brushes. Brush failure can lead to a transistor failure in the black box. The alternator really does need a rebuild every 2000 hours or so else the bearings might fail and this makes a much more expensive repair. Cox's will do this but a good local auto electrician might be able to do it for you. It will most likely need a press so is probably not an easy DIY job. .....................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 It's a fiddly and dangerous thing to mess with. I got involved with mine some years back when it exhibited a similar fault. After consulting with auto electricians.and having them attempt repairs.....I took mine to Cox (as has been said) It needs to all go..including the connecting lead....box and alternator. Worth also checking the drive pulley on the crankshaft..and making sure its not working loose on its 'key'. Not sure of your engine....mine was a Beta 43. You need to grip the drive pulley...and make sure it doesn't 'waggle'.. Its an almost fatal flaw with Beta...that this pulley works loose ...destroys the key...and ultimatley terminally destroys the crankshaft...(yup...a mate had a 500 hour engine destroyed like this) Obviously...its not easy to spot when tensioning...as you tighten it and don't realise that the whole pulley is 'leaning'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Spartacus Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think you will find that the 15v is used for the excitation voltage for the coils, this is normally dc not ac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Its pretty easy to replace the brushes yourself and they are generally available on eBay, but note that it might be critical to modify them before fitting by cutting through an earthing bar. Whilst replacing them you can get a good look at the state of the slip rings. New brushes should confirm that it is brushes rather than the black box that is at fault but I still suggest you get new bearings fitted. The black box should also be opened up every year or two to remove any build up of dust etc. ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billS Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks for all the help folks. I shall be following Dave's advice - an alternator bearing and brushreplacement appears to be long overdue. I will get back with the next exiting instalment after I get back to the boat in a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosschapel Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I have exactly the same problem with my travelpower, stopped working whilst using washing machine and now only works when engine cold. Did the OP resolve the problem and if so, how? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billS Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, crosschapel said: I have exactly the same problem with my travelpower, stopped working whilst using washing machine and now only works when engine cold. Did the OP resolve the problem and if so, how? Thanks. It went to Cox's and returned with a different alternator and a new wiring loom (and a bill for £600). It all works perfectly now and the pain in the wallet is fading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosschapel Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Thanks. I think I will try my local auto electrician first if that's what Cox's charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, crosschapel said: Thanks. I think I will try my local auto electrician first if that's what Cox's charge. You have no doubt heard the story about the Apollo 'trailer problems' ? When NASA came to move the rocket to its launch point, it was found that it would have to pass under 6 bridges - it was 3" too high and it would involve tremendous expense and time delays to re-build the bridges to give enough clearance. A consultant was called in, he said he could resolve the problem at a cost of $10 million, with no time delays - NASA accepted. The consultant arranged for the truck/ trailer to be driven along to the 1st bridge, he let the tyres down, and it passed under the bridge, pump up tyres, repeat another 5 times. NASA queried the $10 million - to be told "its not what I did that you are paying for - you are paying for me for my knowledge, &, knowing what to do" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 13 hours ago, crosschapel said: Thanks. I think I will try my local auto electrician first if that's what Cox's charge. Is he a TP specialist like Cox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) On 14/06/2017 at 08:57, crosschapel said: Thanks. I think I will try my local auto electrician first if that's what Cox's charge. So you know an auto electrician with experience of working with 300 volt variable frequency 3 phase electrics; all in the same box as 230 volt 50Hz single phase? Really should be talking to Cox. Edited June 15, 2017 by Eeyore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boredrider Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 http://www.fc-marine.co.uk/Welcome.html An alternative to Cox, who I can recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosschapel Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Thanks for all constructive posts. I have all the information I need now from current thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now