How we affect the canal water

[Wanderer Vagabond]

This isn't a gripe or a moan, it is merely an observation. Today we took a trip up the Slough Arm (just for the hell of it ) and it was a reasonably pleasant trip. I think it got dredged a couple of years ago so the passage was fairly straightforward. The observation that I noted however was that the first couple of miles to Highline Yachting was clear of weed(and depth was good). On the section beyond Highline Yachting where all of the residential boats are moored the weed was horrendous. Once past that section to the 'basin' at the end it was, once again pretty clear of weed. The assumption that I would draw from that (unless someone can give another reason) is that the grey water from all of the moored boats is putting a lot of unwanted nutrients into the water which is making the weed thrive.

 

It is worth thinking of this when you empty your nitrate rich soapy water into the canal, you can't complain about the weed if your actions are the cause. It is probably a pain to do so but it may be worth trying to find better soaps.

[Alan de Enfield]

European laws are in place - and have been introduced (and enforced) by several 'Med' countries, that not only 'Black' water, but 'grey' water must be retained on board and pumped out at 'authorised stations'.

 

The fine in Turkey (for example) is TL10,400 (about £3700) and is the same for a 'Black water' offence (toilet waste) or 'Grey water' (sink and shower waste)

[ditchcrawler]

Many years ago when we hired on the Canal De Midi the grey water went into a holding tank until it overflowed, about 4 days and the toilet flushed straight into the canal.

[Paul C]

Many years ago when we hired on the Canal De Midi the grey water went into a holding tank until it overflowed, about 4 days and the toilet flushed straight into the canal.

 

I think you mean black water

 

 

 

black water - toilet waste water

grey wayer - drained water from sink, shower, etc

[b0atman]

Is that all the residential boats are putting in ?

[Alan de Enfield]

Our boat built to European specifications has both a black water tank, and, a grey water tank.

 

We have taken one of the (3) toilets out and installed a 'cassette'.

 

Fortunately (for UK use) the 'grey' water can be pumped overboard from the tank so avoiding the cost of a pump-out.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Is that all the residential boats are putting in ?

In fairness to them I would say that it probably is just the grey water that is causing the problem. Having looked up some of the information on the subject I have to correct my earlier suggestion that it was 'nitrate rich soapy water', apparently it isn't, it is 'phosphate rich soapy water', we need to use phosphate free soaps to try to reduce the problem.

[BruceinSanity]

In fairness to them I would say that it probably is just the grey water that is causing the problem. Having looked up some of the information on the subject I have to correct my earlier suggestion that it was 'nitrate rich soapy water', apparently it isn't, it is 'phosphate rich soapy water', we need to use phosphate free soaps to try to reduce the problem.

But the UK banned more than 0.4% inorganic phosphate in detergent with effect from last year.

[Jo_]

Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this very thing in my shower this morning. Said to the OH, wonder how long it will be till we can't send our grey water into the canal. That were damaging the environment, killing off the SSSSSSSSIs etc. I thought that maybe we could have a grey water tank with a filtering/charcoal system or something so it could be reused/recycled up to a point.

[Guest]

Many of the boat toilets flushed directly into the cut when we were kids. Lovely when canoing/fishing. I expect as we progress that grey water will be banned from entering the water too. We will just have to suck it up (not literally.)

[Phil Ambrose]

This isn't a gripe or a moan, it is merely an observation. Today we took a trip up the Slough Arm (just for the hell of it:rolleyes: ) and it was a reasonably pleasant trip. I think it got dredged a couple of years ago so the passage was fairly straightforward. The observation that I noted however was that the first couple of miles to Highline Yachting was clear of weed(and depth was good). On the section beyond Highline Yachting where all of the residential boats are moored the weed was horrendous. Once past that section to the 'basin' at the end it was, once again pretty clear of weed. The assumption that I would draw from that (unless someone can give another reason) is that the grey water from all of the moored boats is putting a lot of unwanted nutrients into the water which is making the weed thrive.

 

It is worth thinking of this when you empty your nitrate rich soapy water into the canal, you can't complain about the weed if your actions are the cause. It is probably a pain to do so but it may be worth trying to find better soaps.

You may well have a point, however here in the Fens boats are quite thin on the ground (water) and weed grows at a hell of a pace, EA have the weed cutters out on a regular basis. Of course the nitrate run of from farmland may well be a possible cause.

Phil

I think you mean black water

 

 

 

black water - toilet waste water

grey wayer - drained water from sink, shower, etc

I've seen hire boats on the Broads doing just that to avoid the hassle and cost of going to a yard for a pumpout.

Phil

[Paul C]

Broads are different though

[Wanderer Vagabond]

You may well have a point, however here in the Fens boats are quite thin on the ground (water) and weed grows at a hell of a pace, EA have the weed cutters out on a regular basis. Of course the nitrate run of from farmland may well be a possible cause.

Phil

 

It was similar when we went up the Chesterfield, not a heavily used canal but they also have a weed problem. The striking thing about the Slough Arm though was that most of it was relatively clear of weed (though not entirely) except for the 1000 yards or so where the residential boats were where it had formed thick mats of it. Coming back we were pushing such a big carpet of weed that it was almost stopping the boat. It may all just be circumstantial and perhaps CRT have gone along and cleared all the weed from everywhere else except that section, but somehow I don't think that is the case. I stopped off at the chandlery and mentioned the weed in conversation, the guy there said it had got that bad just over the last few weeks (possibly with the start of our 'spring/summer')

[Guest]

It was similar when we went up the Chesterfield, not a heavily used canal but they also have a weed problem. The striking thing about the Slough Arm though was that most of it was relatively clear of weed (though not entirely) except for the 1000 yards or so where the residential boats were where it had formed thick mats of it. Coming back we were pushing such a big carpet of weed that it was almost stopping the boat. It may all just be circumstantial and perhaps CRT have gone along and cleared all the weed from everywhere else except that section, but somehow I don't think that is the case. I stopped off at the chandlery and mentioned the weed in conversation, the guy there said it had got that bad just over the last few weeks (possibly with the start of our 'spring/summer')

I recall the Leeds and Liverpool canal having serious problems in the late sixties/early seventies. I think it was just a couple of bad years caused largely by natural reasons.

[bizzard]

Holiday boat crowd having a pleasant swim on a Norfolk Broads river when a little boy rowed up and leaning on his oars stared at them, he didn't say anything at first but continued to brood. He then delivered himself of the following dictum;'I suppose people have got to go to the lavatory, haven't they?' Yes,' he went on.'My dad won't let me swim in the river just here. It's the sewage, he says.'The sun went in. Somehow the water didn't seem so nice. Arthur was diving under the surface and spouting like a whale. I shuddered.

The relentless child went on; It comes down on the ebb tide from the dyke, my dad says. My dad says he wouldn't swim in this part of the river for all the beer in Norwich, my dad says.' 'where's the sewer?' The boy pointed to a bend in the river. 'Just round the corner. They open the gates when the tides ebbing, like what it is now.'

I did not swim madly to the bank. I kept my head, paddling very carefully in a bizarre fashion, holding my body perfectly upright with my face as far away from contact with the water as possible. As I dare not open my mouth, I didn't warn the others until I reached the bank. The effect was rather interesting, like the effect of ringing the Lutine bell at Lloyd's.

Joan went berserk, poor girl, and shrieked,'Oh no, it's all your fault Dennis,' and swam to the bank as if pursued by a jet propelled piece of effluent. Dennis went pale and tense and by some remarkable feat of muscular control actually launched himself out of the water from the waist upwards and moved vertically to the bank. Arthur feigned indifference and hooted with bucolic laughter, but I noticed he got to the bank first.

We were only just in time. The sewage dyke announced its presence in no uncertain fashion five minutes later.

Looking on the chart we found the following legends marked near our mooring;

Sewage Works (Norwich Corporation)

Sewage farm

Sewage wharf

Sewage dyke

Sewage Outlet

Old sewer.

Exert from Michael Green's (The Art of Coarse sailing).

Edited May 27, 2016 by bizzard

[Loafer]

Holiday boat crowd having a pleasant swim on a Norfolk Broads river when a little boy rowed up and leaning on his oars stared at them, he didn't say anything at first but continued to brood. He then delivered himself of the following dictum;'I suppose people have got to go to the lavatory, haven't they?' Yes,' he went on.'My dad won't let me swim in the river just here. It's the sewage, he says.'The sun went in. Somehow the water didn't seem so nice. Arthur was diving under the surface and spouting like a whale. I shuddered.

The relentless child went on; It comes down on the ebb tide from the dyke, my dad says. My dad says he wouldn't swim in this part of the river for all the beer in Norwich, my dad says.' 'where's the sewer?' The boy pointed to a bend in the river. 'Just round the corner. They open the gates when the tides ebbing, like what it is now.'

I did not swim madly to the bank. I kept my head, paddling very carefully in a bizarre fashion, holding my body perfectly upright with my face as far away from contact with the water as possible. As I dare not open my mouth, I didn't warn the others until I reached the bank. The effect was rather interesting, like the effect of ringing the Lutine bell at Lloyd's.

Joan went berserk, poor girl, and shrieked,'Oh no, it's all your fault Dennis,' and swam to the bank as if pursued by a jet propelled piece of effluent. Dennis went pale and tense and by some remarkable feat of muscular control actually launched himself out of the water from the waist upwards and moved vertically to the bank. Arthur feigned indifference and hooted with bucolic laughter, but I noticed he got to the bank first.

We were only just in time. The sewage dyke announced its presence in no uncertain fashion five minutes later.

Looking on the chart we found the following legends marked near our mooring;

Sewage Works (Norwich Corporation)

Sewage farm

Sewage wharf

Sewage dyke

Sewage Outlet

Old sewer.

Exert from Michael Green's (The Art of Course sailing).

 

Should that be 'coarse'?

 

Great story Biz.

[bizzard]

 

Should that be 'coarse'?

 

Great story Biz.

Of cawse it shood, thanks Loaf.

[saltysplash]

This horrible clingy weed has always been a problem on the Slough Arm.

Im not convinced its all the fault of the moorings, Just pop down to Packet Boat and they dont have the same problem, yet move

down the GU to the top and middle of the Hanwell flight and you do have the same problem.

[cuthound]

Most weed growth comes from lack of boat movement, and as others have said, detergents are now virtually phosphate free, soap never had any in the first place.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

This horrible clingy weed has always been a problem on the Slough Arm.

Im not convinced its all the fault of the moorings, Just pop down to Packet Boat and they dont have the same problem, yet move

down the GU to the top and middle of the Hanwell flight and you do have the same problem.

As you are on the Slough Arm (according to your side screen) just walk along and have a look at the difference between where the moorings are and the rest of it, it really is amazing. If it isn't as a result of the boats moored then I'd be interested to know what is the cause. As I said at the outset this isn't a gripe or moan and since they aren't doing anything that isn't allowed I'd be reluctant to say it is the 'fault' of the moorers, it is just what seems to have happened. Equally interesting is that the water around where the moored boats are is almost crystal clear so you can watch the fish as you drift by whereas the rest of the arm is just as murky as any other piece of canal. So it gives clear water, fish and presumably the weed oxygenates the water, the only thing it seems to cause difficulty for is navigation.

[saltysplash]

As you are on the Slough Arm (according to your side screen) just walk along and have a look at the difference between where the moorings are and the rest of it, it really is amazing. If it isn't as a result of the boats moored then I'd be interested to know what is the cause. As I said at the outset this isn't a gripe or moan and since they aren't doing anything that isn't allowed I'd be reluctant to say it is the 'fault' of the moorers, it is just what seems to have happened. Equally interesting is that the water around where the moored boats are is almost crystal clear so you can watch the fish as you drift by whereas the rest of the arm is just as murky as any other piece of canal. So it gives clear water, fish and presumably the weed oxygenates the water, the only thing it seems to cause difficulty for is navigation.

I wasnt suggesting you were having a go, I was just saying im not convinced due to the high number of residential boats in Packet Boat, with no problem and lack of residential boats at Hanwell that does have a problem.

Its all very odd and yes, Im well aware of the weed's location along the arm as I cycle to Uxbridge regularly along the towpath.

 

Following the dredging, which wasnt done to full depth by the way, we were weed free for a couple of years but this year it has returned with a vengence.

Is it something to do with the clear water and the Sun having a direct path to the Mud rather than being diffused by normally murky water?

 

 

eta glad you visited the Arm, we do need more boats visiting even if at this time of year it can be a bit of a mare

Edited May 28, 2016 by saltysplash

[ditchcrawler]

 

I think you mean black water

 

 

 

black water - toilet waste water

grey wayer - drained water from sink, shower, etc

Yes I know that is why I posted it. Shower and sink water into a tank and toilet straight out of the bottom.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I wasnt suggesting you were having a go, I was just saying im not convinced due to the high number of residential boats in Packet Boat, with no problem and lack of residential boats at Hanwell that does have a problem.

Its all very odd and yes, Im well aware of the weed's location along the arm as I cycle to Uxbridge regularly along the towpath.

 

Following the dredging, which wasnt done to full depth by the way, we were weed free for a couple of years but this year it has returned with a vengence.

Is it something to do with the clear water and the Sun having a direct path to the Mud rather than being diffused by normally murky water?

 

 

eta glad you visited the Arm, we do need more boats visiting even if at this time of year it can be a bit of a mare

On that section of canal the weed on the canal bottom is so thick that you cannot see the mud (or that is certainly the impression that I got as I drifted through). I suspect that may be the reason that the water is so clear, passing boats can only disturb the weed whilst the mud remains covered and doesn't get stirred up (this is only a theory unless someone else has a better reason why the water is so clear).

 

I would guess that as the summer goes on and the temperatures increase the weed will probably spread up and down the canal, but it does all seem to be focussed at Highline moorings at the moment. When I ran into the weed at Highline I must admit that I was dreading the last couple of miles since I thought that it would thicken as I got towards the 'basin', but it wasn't the case, the rest of the cruise was much the same as any other canal, some weed but nothing of any concern.

 

If you want a 'proper' weedy canal, the Chesterfield is the one to go on (at least on its lower reaches) . I was expecting the Slough Arm to be a lot worse that it was.

[ditchcrawler]

Holiday boat crowd having a pleasant swim on a Norfolk Broads river when a little boy rowed up and leaning on his oars stared at them, he didn't say anything at first but continued to brood. He then delivered himself of the following dictum;'I suppose people have got to go to the lavatory, haven't they?' Yes,' he went on.'My dad won't let me swim in the river just here. It's the sewage, he says.'The sun went in. Somehow the water didn't seem so nice. Arthur was diving under the surface and spouting like a whale. I shuddered.

The relentless child went on; It comes down on the ebb tide from the dyke, my dad says. My dad says he wouldn't swim in this part of the river for all the beer in Norwich, my dad says.' 'where's the sewer?' The boy pointed to a bend in the river. 'Just round the corner. They open the gates when the tides ebbing, like what it is now.'

I did not swim madly to the bank. I kept my head, paddling very carefully in a bizarre fashion, holding my body perfectly upright with my face as far away from contact with the water as possible. As I dare not open my mouth, I didn't warn the others until I reached the bank. The effect was rather interesting, like the effect of ringing the Lutine bell at Lloyd's.

Joan went berserk, poor girl, and shrieked,'Oh no, it's all your fault Dennis,' and swam to the bank as if pursued by a jet propelled piece of effluent. Dennis went pale and tense and by some remarkable feat of muscular control actually launched himself out of the water from the waist upwards and moved vertically to the bank. Arthur feigned indifference and hooted with bucolic laughter, but I noticed he got to the bank first.

We were only just in time. The sewage dyke announced its presence in no uncertain fashion five minutes later.

Looking on the chart we found the following legends marked near our mooring;

Sewage Works (Norwich Corporation)

Sewage farm

Sewage wharf

Sewage dyke

Sewage Outlet

Old sewer.

Exert from Michael Green's (The Art of Coarse sailing).

As you drive over the A47 bridge you can see the change in colour of the water

[Iain_S]

(snip). Equally interesting is that the water around where the moored boats are is almost crystal clear so you can watch the fish as you drift by whereas the rest of the arm is just as murky as any other piece of canal. So it gives clear water, fish and presumably the weed oxygenates the water, the only thing it seems to cause difficulty for is navigation.

 

The clear water may well be part of the weed problem. More light= more weed.