Composting vs cassette toilet vs pump out

[fergyguy]

No doubt this subject has been covered before but as I was unable to find it I thought as part of my pre boat build research I would ask the question as per the title.we will be having wb built and fitted to our specifications allowing us to do the cc style boating we are aiming for.we have looked at comments on here regarding smells from pump outs along with what do you put in the tank to help reduce these issues...we have also looked at the cassette issues at the emptying stations ....peterboat suggested composting toilet which to be honest I never knew existed so it was a quick trip onto YouTube to see the many videos covering this subject . I'm not sure we really want to have sewage swilling around In a large tank under our feet/bed and for us having a larger fresh water carrying capacity would be far more beneficial so we would be considering having the sewage tank area replaced by fresh water tankage. Can I draw on your experience of each of the 3 systems their pros and cons as you see it. Our cruising aim is to do the northern waters first and on no given time schedule cruise to a point we like moor up and explore for as short or long a stay as we wish upto the given 14 days. It was stated on here the other day we would struggle as we would need to get pump out sorted and not have enough water. If we were to go compost toilet (depending on all your views on them) and we increase our clean water capacity then surely this would then not be such a problem....am I wrong? As always your views and advise very welcome even from the guys who lived in a cardboard box lol you know who you are.

Edited May 22, 2016 by fergyguy

[BlueStringPudding]

My water tank lasts a month. My pump out tank lasts 3+ months. It all depends on the size you have installed.

 

I've never used a composting loo so can't comment on them. I love the idea of them but they're very bulky and need a constant 12v draw, albeit a low one

 

"Pump out" refers only to the waste storage and not the loo. There are vacuum, dump through and macerator loos that can use a pump out tank. Personally I prefer the macerator loo over dump through because the waste remains remote from the bowl and the local pump out boat or boat yard empties the tank for me once every few months. Easy. At £15 every three months, a well designed tank layout is cheaper and less time consuming than filling numerous cassettes with chemicals and having to carry them.

 

People use the term "cassette toilet" to also mean more than one sort of loo: the porta potti and the fitted cassette toilet. The former is little more than a glorified bucket which fills in about two days and the top has to be detached from the base and put somewhere while you walk the bottom half to an Elsan point to pour the lumpy waste down a giant toilet. The latter is built in, often the cassettes have greater capacity but the emptying method is the same. I've used both types and like neither of them: too much faff, the need to store spare cassettes or worse: full ones, they often dribble when being transported or removed, plus having to get so up close and personal with one's waste isn't my idea of fun twice a week. Also I've yet to use one on anyone's boat that doesn't smell either of poo or chemicals. People get used to their own loo smelling and don't always realise how it smells to other people.

Edited May 22, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[fergyguy]

Hi bsp that what I felt would be the case but others on here seemed to think we would not have enought capacity...I would have thought having a wb built we could build our requirements into its design.

[GUMPY]

All depends on your usage

We use between 700 and 900 litres a week, that includes both of us showering every day and 2-3 washing machine loads.

Our tank is about 900l and needs filling every week.

When we had the barge with a full size washer/condensiing dryer we averaged about 11-1200 litres a week.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Loddon

[BlueStringPudding]

People give advice based on their own experience. I know lots of boats with tiny pump out tanks which kinda defeats the point a bit of having such a hassle free type of loo. So always take advice on here as just that: subjective and based on each individual's limited experience and preferences. My boat is Pinder built, an ex-hire boat designed to cater for 8-10 people for two weeks at a time. Cheshire-Rose of this parish also has a similar build. Both are narrowbeam too so you could have all sorts of options on a bespoke widebeam.

 

Whatever you choose you will be storing sh*t on your boat, which is peculiarly forgotten by some contributors to the bestest toilet argument. You'll either be storing it remotely in a liquidised form sealed from your home in a tank. Or you'll be storing it in lumpy wet form in plastic cassettes about the place or in a dump through tank which is not remote. Or you'll be storing it in a dried out form and just disposing of your wee regularly. Out of all three, the dried out type seems less gross! But once you add in the essential spare cassettes to the Elsan types then they all take up space. It's just a case of how cleverly you use it.

Edited May 22, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[ditchcrawler]

I have a pump out but I would seriously consider a composting one if starting again. Quite a few boaters have them but like brewing beer it seems bit of an art to run them well, but once you do the look a good option to me. If you don't want to move for 14 days and are not in walking distance of an elsan point then you would probably need several cassettes that you will need to store both full and empty.

[Bettie Boo]

I won't cut & paste, but fully agree with everything Blue String Pud says above ^^

 

I can only make reference to a macerator style pump out, because that is what we have on our WB. The only other form of loo I would consider if we were to buy/build another boat would be a compost loo, but I would want to do a lot more research before I committed to the change, as I am very happy with our current set up.

 

We suffer no strong smells with our set up. With that said; every now and then (I'm talking about 3-4 times a year) there is a faint nasty smell in the bedroom - I've yet to discover why or where it comes from. I think it may have something to do with some kind of "breather pipe" and which way the wind is blowing

[fergyguy]

Hi ditchhcrawler thanks for that...composting did seem a bit gross when I first heard of it but every video on it I see people seem to be saying the same thing that it's the way to go so I'm thinking a larger fresh water tank in place of sewage tank and using a composting loo gives us the ability to stay in one place as we wish....at peterboats suggestion we will have an generator built into the design also helping to avoid having to run the engine to charge batteries and of course solar panels will be on the roof.

[Phil Ambrose]

Composting toilets are no more bulky than any other, but you will need to dispose of the pee every couple of days, they have a urine separater/diverter which has a 4 or 5 litre capacity. Once the solid container is full you will need to store it for 6 months before disposing of it. I know 3 people who ha e them and all say they are great.

Phil

[adam1uk]

We had our pump out taken out just over a year ago, and replaced it with a composting loo. We wouldn't go back. We're not liveaboards, and this means that we can empty the solids bin at the start of a trip, when it's been left for a few weeks to go dry and crumbly. There's no need to store it for months -- it all goes in a bag and into the bin. Emptying isn't the most fun thing you'll ever do, but neither is it unpleasant. The main thing to get it working right is to make sure no urine gets into the solids bin, which means everyone sits down on every visit, to aid separation. The pee bottle needs to be emptied every day, and this can be done at an Elsan, or its fine to be tipped into a hedgerow. CRT say not to empty it into the canal, as urine is a fertiliser and it encourages weed growth. I suppose the one slight downside is that the loo needs a 12 volt fan running all the time to dry out the contents. The draw is small, but it's still there.

 

We spoke to several people with composting loos on their boats before we took the plunge, and as I say none of us would go back. The loo doesn't smell like the pump out did, it's a long time between empties, and it uses no water. It's the way forward!

[DailyMike]

Adam1 UK.... "We spoke to several people with composting loos on their boats before we took the plunge, and as I say none of us would go back. The loo doesn't smell like the pump out did, it's a long time between empties, and it uses no water. It's the way forward!.

 

Good afternoon, one and all.

 

Adam1uk....I am very keen to incorporate a composting toilet into my intended conversion/live-aboard and would be appreciative to know what composting toilet you "plumbed-for"...pun INtended!! That is...did you design/make your own, or did you get an off the shelf one...if so, which one, please?

[adam1uk]

Adam1uk....I am very keen to incorporate a composting toilet into my intended conversion/live-aboard and would be appreciative to know what composting toilet you "plumbed-for"...pun INtended!! That is...did you design/make your own, or did you get an off the shelf one...if so, which one, please?

Ours is an Airhead. Fixings are very simple -- just a couple of brackets on the floor. It also needs a vent; many people use a mushroom on the roof, but ours goes through the side of the boat.

[bastion]

Try googling compost toilets for boats and off grid living, there is a great deal of info. With a properly vented loo you do not need a 12v supply.

[DailyMike]

Thanks for your comments Adam1uk and Bastion.

[Anna_Licorice]

After emptying my Porta Potti again today (two of use get about 4 days usage before having to empty it) I am glad to have stumbled on this thread. I did not like the 'idea' of storing my waste for a pump out- but it was more the thought of what could go wrong that I couldn't fix, and also wanting to use the space under my bed for other things.

 

But having had a Porta Potti now for a few months I have to say I'm quite paranoid and obsessed about finding Elsan spots to empty the waste. And once or twice some Elsan spots have been out of order- causing us to use the spare cassette- leading to my initial dislike of carrying waste around.

 

I'm going to research composting toilets now. Thanks for the posts.

[peterboat]

Hi Martin at crick the composting loo man will be there chat to him great guy and mine has been a great loo. Their are now others on the go which |I would buy now I suspect. So do your research and as you would be building it in I would go for a 20 litre pee tank without any problems

 

Peter

[magictime]

Reading this thread, it does feel as if composting loos are establishing themselves as a tried-and-tested alternative to cassette and pump-out, where a few years ago, they were still firmly in the 'sounds good in theory' category. I'll certainly be considering this option when we come to buy our next (liveaboard) boat.

Edited May 22, 2016 by magictime

[1agos]

We are still contemplating a composting loo but the only one that would fit in the bathroom is the Airhead but that looks so ugly.

[fergyguy]

Having you tube researched them I feel sure composting loos are the way to go...if used correctly (sit down guys for a pee) then it's a clean none messy way of dealing with waste.i feel sure we will be telling our builder when the time comes that's what we want along with as big a fresh water tank as our boat can take...these two measures along with solar panels and a good quality quiet generator we should be able to cruise contently filling diesel and water as we pass suitable points without panicking that we are on our last drop. Just one last question which I know I should have worked out but where does my sink and bath water go?

[pophops]

Well, personally speaking, when I've dumped through my dump-through I don't ever want to see the result again.

I don't want to be lugging it down the towpath and emptying it into some foul-smelling hole.

I certainly don't want to be emptying the liquid element every day and shovelling out the solids no matter how 'green' it makes me feel.

I gladly pay someone else to pump it away every so-often.

[peterboat]

Well, personally speaking, when I've dumped through my dump-through I don't ever want to see the result again.

I don't want to be lugging it down the towpath and emptying it into some foul-smelling hole.

I certainly don't want to be emptying the liquid element every day and shovelling out the solids no matter how 'green' it makes me feel.

I gladly pay someone else to pump it away every so-often.

I got froze in with my last boat the pump out turned into a nightmare!! In the end I had to get a tanker down to pump out the loo Composting loo now no hassles

[bargemast]

Maybe if you read the stories of people that are users of composting toilets,( that can be as small as a porta-pottie) of which many where sure that they would never change their potable loo or pumpout loo against a composting version, you'll read that they're all very happy, and would absolutely NEVER go back to their previous systems, you'll have a better idea of make a toilet choice for your (new) boat.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/compostingloos/?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

Peter.

Edited May 22, 2016 by bargemast

[magictime]

Just one last question which I know I should have worked out but where does my sink and bath water go?

 

Out of a hole in the side of the hull, and into the canal.

[Drayke]

We installed a composting loo on our W/B in Feb 2015. The one we purchased was a ‘Natures Head’ and I’m still not sure if we have done the right thing. We had trouble with urine getting into the solids compartment, there was a fault with the top half of the loo, and a new one was supplied FOC. Still found that some of the urine was getting into the solids so made some alteration to stop this happening, we put a physical barrier between the two compartments which has made it a lot better.

We find that with two of us staying on board we have to empty the urine bottle every two days and the solid compartment about every six weeks, so have purchased a second bottle and a second base unit to allow the solids to finish composting. The jury is still out on this.

When the urine was getting into the solids we found that the liquid sludge was creeping out around the paddle wheel shaft on both sides of the base unit running down the sides and making a mess on the floor, so there is not a good seal around the paddle wheel shaft.

As to any smells you do get a whiff of an earthy smell now and again.

Prior to this installation we had a pump out macerator toilet with a holding tank in the engine room, approx. 280ltrs that lasted 10-14 days before needing to be emptied. We left the holding tank in-situ just in case we change our minds again.

[system 4-50]

We installed a composting loo on our W/B in Feb 2015. The one we purchased was a ‘Natures Head’ and I’m still not sure if we have done the right thing. We had trouble with urine getting into the solids compartment, there was a fault with the top half of the loo, and a new one was supplied FOC. Still found that some of the urine was getting into the solids so made some alteration to stop this happening, we put a physical barrier between the two compartments which has made it a lot better.

We find that with two of us staying on board we have to empty the urine bottle every two days and the solid compartment about every six weeks, so have purchased a second bottle and a second base unit to allow the solids to finish composting. The jury is still out on this.

When the urine was getting into the solids we found that the liquid sludge was creeping out around the paddle wheel shaft on both sides of the base unit running down the sides and making a mess on the floor, so there is not a good seal around the paddle wheel shaft.

As to any smells you do get a whiff of an earthy smell now and again.

Prior to this installation we had a pump out macerator toilet with a holding tank in the engine room, approx. 280ltrs that lasted 10-14 days before needing to be emptied. We left the holding tank in-situ just in case we change our minds again.

Am I seeing this right? 2 of you for 14 days producing 10L per day each? You must have been using a full flush for every use? Surely one can be more economical that that?

There is only one of me and I am not full time, and I aim to empty my 280L tank several times per year!