when will they ever learn?

[WotEver]

I nearly got a job with a company who made EHV stuff many, many years ago. I recall a fuse (don't know what it was for) that was too big and heavy to even pick up.

[Dalslandia]

I nearly got a job with a company who made EHV stuff many, many years ago. I recall a fuse (don't know what it was for) that was too big and heavy to even pick up.

 

Was it a refuse?

[John V]

Mate of mine came out to a site I was working on (we both used to work in electronics together years previously) when I was crimping up 400mm singles.

He took one look at it and said " if I cant do the terminal up with a terminal screwdriver, I don't want to know"

[WotEver]

Was it a refuse?

No idea. The company was Hellerman.

 

Tony

[keble]

Being a pedant I will just mention that fuses do have voltage ratings - although I don't think I've ever seen ones rated as low as 12v.

Knackered fuse photo (tumble drier)

[John V]

You didn't put thick enough silver paper round it

[peterboat]

You'll flatten the sun. Don't say I didn't warn you...

they are doing it again today another winters day and no generator running, i am thinking of putting funnels up to catch more of those amp hours

[John V]

Well, it's 24 hours of measuring over on my fridge freezer so I know how many amps per hour it has been using

 

Total consumption over 24 hours 0.44 kwh

maximum current drain while running 655 mA @ nominal 220v

minimum current drain while running 510 mA @ nominal 220v

 

lowest line voltage observed 209v

highest line voltage observed 223v

 

approximate duty cycle based on averaged readings 12.5%

 

rather different from the spec sheet that came with the unit (232 kwh/annum)

based on these figures I work it out as approximately 161 kwh/annum

[WotEver]

That duty cycle might get somewhat worse when the weather warms up I guess.

[Paul C]

.....or the day you do shopping, and have the door open for 10 minutes while filling it.

[John V]

You're quite probably right, not by much though because with the central heating the temperature doesn't fall below 16 degrees at night and is maintained at around the 20 degree mark during the day. and a bit higher in the evening when sitting around.

I have been surprised by the very large difference between the quoted figure and that achieved. I would have expected it to be much closer.

[Dalslandia]

Looks good, the standard protocol for testing probably have a higher room temp, and a number of openings every day.

 

so 440Wh per day, how many amp's hour's per hour will that draw from your power out battery back up? :-)

 

you said? your fridge inverter? is rated at 500W? question is if it coop with it an hot summer day, say peak draw is 150W at 230V what is the inverter peak and normal rating?

 

"They" say it is not good to eat at night, but why is there a light inside the fridge then?

Edited February 16, 2016 by Dalslandia

[John V]

Hi there Dalslandia

 

The inverter is rated at 500w continuous 900w peak. It is mounted in the engine room on an internal bulkhead in a well ventilated area, so it shouldn't have to be de-rated too much even on a hot day.

I am quite pleased with the figures as there should be no problem using the existing system, I would prefer not to increase the size of the inverter as I would probably have to up the DC wiring and the DC contactor.

The 230v interlocking changeover contactors are way over rated ( but I had them left over from a job )

 

There is facility to auto start a generator when the battery voltage falls but the generator I had was not good enough so it was never connected.

To be honest I am not convinced that timed run and then switch back to batteries I worked out, was thought through properly.

I think there might be some problems that would come back and bite me on the bum.

I might leave that bit for another day.

[peterboat]

Hi there Dalslandia

 

The inverter is rated at 500w continuous 900w peak. It is mounted in the engine room on an internal bulkhead in a well ventilated area, so it shouldn't have to be de-rated too much even on a hot day.

I am quite pleased with the figures as there should be no problem using the existing system, I would prefer not to increase the size of the inverter as I would probably have to up the DC wiring and the DC contactor.

The 230v interlocking changeover contactors are way over rated ( but I had them left over from a job )

 

There is facility to auto start a generator when the battery voltage falls but the generator I had was not good enough so it was never connected.

To be honest I am not convinced that timed run and then switch back to batteries I worked out, was thought through properly.

I think there might be some problems that would come back and bite me on the bum.

I might leave that bit for another day.

i have autostart on the wispergen, which although is good i have never had come on [or i have been asleep when it has] but it does give me a warm feeling that it will protect my batteries from over discharge if it does. plus the warm feeling will be because it runs the central heating as well

[Loafer]

Well, it's 24 hours of measuring over on my fridge freezer so I know how many amps per hour it has been using

 

Total consumption over 24 hours 0.44 kwh

maximum current drain while running 655 mA @ nominal 220v

minimum current drain while running 510 mA @ nominal 220v

 

lowest line voltage observed 209v

highest line voltage observed 223v

 

approximate duty cycle based on averaged readings 12.5%

 

rather different from the spec sheet that came with the unit (232 kwh/annum)

based on these figures I work it out as approximately 161 kwh/annum

 

How many amps per hour was it, then?

 

If it uses 10A while running, it doesnt matter whether its on for a minute, or 24 hours. It still 10A.

 

1A = 1 Coulomb of charge per second. Or billions of electrons per second.

 

1A per hour means that during the first hour, it uses 1A. During the second hour, it uses 2A. During the third hour, it's up to 3A. That means that it is steadily consuming more and more energy per hour and will soon blow itself up when it gets to about hour 24! Edit: And using 24A!

Edited February 16, 2016 by Loafer

[Murflynn]

 

 

 

1A per hour means that during the first hour, it uses 1A. During the second hour, it uses 2A. During the third hour, it's up to 3A. That means that it is steadily consuming more and more energy per hour and will soon blow itself up when it gets to about hour 24! Edit: And using 24A!

that'll learn them !!!

[ditchcrawler]

Looks good, the standard protocol for testing probably have a higher room temp, and a number of openings every day.

 

I once looked it up. it was a surprise to me what they did or didnt do

[ditchcrawler]

Looks good, the standard protocol for testing probably have a higher room temp, and a number of openings every day.

 

 

http://www.bigee.net/media/filer_public/2012/12/04/bigee_doc_4_refrigerators_freezers_test_procedures_20121130.pdf

[John V]

The way the ventilation for the freezer is arranged possibly helps as well.

There are ventilation grills in the cabin sole immediately beneath the heat exchanger so the cooling air is drawn directly from the bilges and exhausted at the top into the cabin,

Edited February 16, 2016 by John V

[Dalslandia]

http://www.bigee.net/media/filer_public/2012/12/04/bigee_doc_4_refrigerators_freezers_test_procedures_20121130.pdf

 

Interesting, so they cook more in Japan, they don't cook in USA we know that, they go out for all meals, so just use it for beer and ice. And there beer is like making love in a canoe anyway.

 

but we also see the different between the test, with 32C ambient temp it takes 10-20% more energy or amp per hours per hour then if it is 25C but that also include 3C instead of 5C inside the fridge. (Centigrade-celsius not capacitet of battery)

Edited February 16, 2016 by Dalslandia

[dmr]

 

How many amps per hour was it, then?

 

If it uses 10A while running, it doesnt matter whether its on for a minute, or 24 hours. It still 10A.

 

1A = 1 Coulomb of charge per second. Or billions of electrons per second.

 

1A per hour means that during the first hour, it uses 1A. During the second hour, it uses 2A. During the third hour, it's up to 3A. That means that it is steadily consuming more and more energy per hour and will soon blow itself up when it gets to about hour 24! Edit: And using 24A!

 

Billions??? Not good enough! Exactly how many electrons per second please?

 

and please clarify which way they are going!

 

.................Dave

[Loafer]

 

Billions??? Not good enough! Exactly how many electrons per second please?

 

and please clarify which way they are going!

 

.................Dave

 

 

6.24 x 10¹⁸

 

From negative to positive!

The movement of a single electron leaves a 'hole', which effectively moves from positive to negative. The actual flow of electrons is from the negative to the positive.

 

They actually move quite slowly, similar to a pipe full of marbles. Push a marble in at one end, and almost immediately a marble pops out of the far end. However, it will take ages for the first marble to reach the far end of the pipe.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Loafer

[John V]

 

 

6.24 x 10¹⁸

 

From negative to positive!

The movement of a single electron leaves a 'hole', which effectively moves from positive to negative. The actual flow of electrons is from the negative to the positive.

 

They actually move quite slowly, similar to a pipe full of marbles. Push a marble in at one end, and almost immediately a marble pops out of the far end. However, it will take ages for the first marble to reach the far end of the pipe.

 

If we put an marble emitter at one end of a looooong tube with a bit of wire as a marble catcher at the other end, suck all the air out and then put a voltage across it won't the marbles appear almost instantaneously at the other end travelling at 186,000 miles per second in old money ? is this turbocharge electrickery ? and will it charge my batteries quicker ?

[Loafer]

 

If we put an marble emitter at one end of a looooong tube with a bit of wire as a marble catcher at the other end, suck all the air out and then put a voltage across it won't the marbles appear almost instantaneously at the other end travelling at 186,000 miles per second in old money ? is this turbocharge electrickery ? and will it charge my batteries quicker ?

 

I haven't looked it up, but I THINK electricity is virtually instantaneous. The electrons however, are moving at only a few mm per hour.

 

There are one or two things that appear to travel faster than light ('c'), for example the scanning on a large cathode ray tube. Electrons are travelling from the gun to the coated glass at just short of light speed, but the scan gets from one side of the screen to the other at an impossible 'greater than c' speed.

 

It's only apparent though. No electrons actually DO that speed, just the angular change does (at the screen).

 

Of course, I may have just dreamt all that, but I think all the above is true.

 

Edit: I can't answer your questions though!

Edited February 16, 2016 by Loafer

[nicknorman]

I haven't looked it up, but I THINK electricity is virtually instantaneous. The electrons however, are moving at only a few mm per hour.

 

 

Speed of light, max. But yes each electron typically moves quite slowly.