Definition of home mooring

[Tecka]

This is a much better thread, Delta9

 

The council keep claiming that it is an office constructed without planning permission, he keeps counterclaiming that he is just waiting for a big enough tide.

(The last one big enough to get that high was 1953 )

Beautiful, just beautiful

[mayalld]

As far as I can see, the legal definition of home mooring is: "a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere"

 

Nothing in that suggests that I need to ay to secure a specific mooring for the time I am not using it.

 

There are quite a few marinas in my area and I recently enquired at one of them to be told "you don't need to book, you can just turn up, we will always have space to fit you in"

 

My friend also tells me that if needed I can always get my boat lifted out and store it on in his yard.

 

These seem to me to fit the definition of a home mooring.

 

Would I be right in thinking that CRT are unable to refuse a licence to a boat with a home mooring?

 

If so, could any CC'er refused a licence simply state "my Dad says I can store the boat in his garden any time I need to" or "xxxx marina say they always have space there to store my boat if needed"

 

OK;

 

1) The wording is "will be available". Notwithstanding any assurance that a marina is "never full", the marina operator cannot guarantee that this will remain the case, and he isn't actually going to save you a mooring. As such, it cannot be said that the mooring will be available.

2) The wording is "can reasonably be kept", and as such the criteria must be whether it is actually practical to return the boat there when you decide that you don't want to move. It isn't a carte blanche to say that you *could* move it ashore if in fact you couldn't actually arrange this.

[Sabcat]

If I owned a yard/marina I could sell you a home mooring. I could sell many home moorings. I could sell as many storage moorings as I could get boats on the site breasted up. If CRT enquired "Does Delta9 have a mooring?" I could legitimately say "yes. he does".

 

That Delta9 never used it is neither here nor there. It exists and it is available for his use, when required, in accordance with the law. CRT could not refuse a licence, the law specifically forbids them from doing so. Delta9 could then go an bridge hop to his hearts content - safe in the knowledge that despite CRT trying to make up T&Cs - that he will always be legally entitled to a licence every year.

 

For my part I get to pocket £150 a year for answering a letter from CRT

[cuthound]

How do you crane your boat out if Dave's field is surrounded by trees?

With a crane capable of lifting the boat over the trees.

 

Something like this, which I used to put several 40 tonne generators onto the top of a 14 storey building in docklands.

 

http://www.ainscough.co.uk/ainscough-heavy-cranes/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/06/image-7.png

[dogless]

If I owned a yard/marina I could sell you a home mooring. I could sell many home moorings. I could sell as many storage moorings as I could get boats on the site breasted up. If CRT enquired "Does Delta9 have a mooring?" I could legitimately say "yes. he does".

 

That Delta9 never used it is neither here nor there. It exists and it is available for his use, when required, in accordance with the law. CRT could not refuse a licence, the law specifically forbids them from doing so. Delta9 could then go an bridge hop to his hearts content - safe in the knowledge that despite CRT trying to make up T&Cs - that he will always be legally entitled to a licence every year.

 

For my part I get to pocket £150 a year for answering a letter from CRT

Sorry, but in that situation, and assuming he's cruising and moving every 14 days, he doesn't need the mooring !

He would be legitimately navigating.

Isn't this where we started.

Rog

[Sabcat]

Sorry, but in that situation, and assuming he's cruising and moving every 14 days, he doesn't need the mooring !

He would be legitimately navigating.

Isn't this where we started.

Rog

 

No. If he's not got a home mooring he can't just bridge hop between 2 points. If he does have a home mooring, he can quite legitimately

[tillergirl]

No. If he's not got a home mooring he can't just bridge hop between 2 points. If he does have a home mooring, he can quite legitimately

My understanding is that under the new T&C he can't. He is bound by the same rules as everyone who is out cruising.

[Delta9]

More importantly, I can't be refused a licence or only allowed a 3 month if I have a home mooring..

[MtB]

My understanding is that under the new T&C he can't. He is bound by the same rules as everyone who is out cruising.

 

 

They may be in the new T&Cs but he is not bound by them.

[NigelMoore]

He is bound by the same rules as everyone who is out cruising.

 

He is bound by the same law as everyone who is out cruising, regardless of the basis of his licence application; i.e. he cannot stay longer than 14 days in any one place along the towpath unless he has a reasonable excuse.

 

The only difference that the basis of the licence application makes, lies in the consequences of failure to abide by that requirement.

 

[David Mack]

This is reminiscent of an argument that has been going on for 30 or more years between a council and a boatyard (coastal) that has a fishing boat as an office....lovely well maintained traditional wooden fishing boat chocked up neatly with a lovely flowerbed around it.

The council keep claiming that it is an office constructed without planning permission, he keeps counterclaiming that he is just waiting for a big enough tide.

(The last one big enough to get that high was 1953 )

 

After the recent weather we've had up here in Yorkshire, I must just try that one on!

If I owned a yard/marina I could sell you a home mooring. I could sell many home moorings. I could sell as many storage moorings as I could get boats on the site breasted up. If CRT enquired "Does Delta9 have a mooring?" I could legitimately say "yes. he does".

I have heard of an offside bank owner being warned by BW not to offer more 'home moorings' than they actually have space for.

[Sabcat]

My understanding is that under the new T&C he can't. He is bound by the same rules as everyone who is out cruising.

 

The law says if a boat has a home mooring, is insured and has a BSS then CRT can't refuse to issue a licence. They can stick their T&Cs up the exhaust of a shiny boat.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Sabcat

[jenlyn]

 

The law says if a boat has a home mooring, is insured and has a BSS then CRT can't refuse to issue a licence. They can stick their T&Cs up the exhaust of a shiny boat.

Killed me, but greenie.

[waterworks]

Anyway, 2 suggestions:

 

1/ Spend some of the time you currently spend trying to get around the law, actually cruising. Then you would be a compliant CCer!

 

2/ Try your ruse and see where I gets you. That is the only relevant test, what we think is irrelevant.

You have no idea how much the OP cruises.

[waterworks]

This forum definitely needs a sub forum/section entitled -

 

'How to evade your responsibilities as a boater'.

 

..

You didnt write "legal" responsibilities. The responsibilities you allude to may only be the ones you want.

[Guest]

You didnt write "legal" responsibilities. The responsibilities you allude to may only be the ones you want.

What 'I' want.

 

No idea what you are talking about.

[MtB]

You have no idea how much the OP cruises.

 

 

You have no idea how much Nick knows about how much the OP cruises.

[waterworks]

 

 

You have no idea how much Nick knows about how much the OP cruises.

I do, I read the OP say he is in a marina, after I posted my post. So you didnt know that I know that.

By the way, what part of the legislation says a licence cannot be refused if you have a mooring and all the conditions are met ?

[MtB]

I do, I read the OP say he is in a marina, after I posted my post. So you didnt know that I know that

 

 

Oh I see. The OP never ever posted anything in any other thread then!

 

Oh, and Nick's boat is often seen in the same area as the OP moors. They could easily have met and had a long chat about cruising, or even spent many an evening in the pub together. Or do you know for a fact they haven't?

[Ange]

This is a much better thread, Delta9

 

It has occurred to me that Dave will probably need planning permission for change of use for his field. if he does get planning permission to use it for boat storage that would be more evidence to support a claim to CRT however I would imagine it will mean a change in the rates and therefore some cost would be incurred.

 

This is reminiscent of an argument that has been going on for 30 or more years between a council and a boatyard (coastal) that has a fishing boat as an office....lovely well maintained traditional wooden fishing boat chocked up neatly with a lovely flowerbed around it.

The council keep claiming that it is an office constructed without planning permission, he keeps counterclaiming that he is just waiting for a big enough tide.

(The last one big enough to get that high was 1953 )

Canvey Island by any chance?

 

I grew up hearing tales of the 1953 floods - my dad lived in Shaftesbury Avenue at the time and their ground floor was flooded. Of course Canvey fared much worse

[waterworks]

 

 

Oh I see. The OP never ever posted anything in any other thread then!

 

Oh, and Nick's boat is often seen in the same area as the OP moors. They could easily have met and had a long chat about cruising, or even spent many an evening in the pub together. Or do you know for a fact they haven't?

That's enough now, get to bed.

[jenlyn]

 

 

Oh I see. The OP never ever posted anything in any other thread then!

 

Oh, and Nick's boat is often seen in the same area as the OP moors. They could easily have met and had a long chat about cruising, or even spent many an evening in the pub together. Or do you know for a fact they haven't?

Do you know? Or are you being assooming?

[John V]

Canvey Island by any chance?

 

I grew up hearing tales of the 1953 floods - my dad lived in Shaftesbury Avenue at the time and their ground floor was flooded. Of course Canvey fared much worse

 

Hi Ange, No the yard is further up coast near Brightlingsea....... We lived in Brentwood at the time but I remember the newspapers full of the news and pictures of Canvey.....(the Canvey pub the Red Cow was re-named the King Canute after that....the floods reached the edge of it)

[tillergirl]

The law says if a boat has a home mooring, is insured and has a BSS then CRT can't refuse to issue a licence. They can stick their T&Cs up the exhaust of a shiny boat.

I was saying that if he cruisees from his home mooring he is bound by the same tcs as everyone else. Ie he can't moor where he likes for as long as long as he likes. Course he could always try and see how far he got with enforcement

[Sabcat]

I was saying that if he cruisees from his home mooring he is bound by the same tcs as everyone else. Ie he can't moor where he likes for as long as long as he likes. Course he could always try and see how far he got with enforcement

 

He can't stay in one place for more than 14 days, no. But he is not bound by any of the "bona fide for navigation" rules that a person without a home mooring is. 14 days in one place, 14 days at another and then back again for as long as he likes is perfectly legitimate regardless of what enforcement or anyone else says.

 

CRT might not like it and the provisional IWA might get twitchy if his boat is a bit scruffy and there's stuff on his roof but that's their problem, not his. They'll sell him his licence and like it.