Floods

[nb Innisfree]

You're evidently making a point here, but I am not sure what it is. Who are these people who have abandoned their local knowledge, and why did they do so? if their local knowledge of drainage is so good, why have there been devastating floods? Please explain!

Read the link, EA have abandoned systems that have worked for centuries and replaced them with systems that simply don't work. The local knowledge was ignored so can't be used in any way.

 

A similar example is the abandonment of controlled burning of heathland to preserve the habitat of lizards, in the fire service we were then faced with fires raging uncontrolled through heather and gorse that had grown too high with the result that by the time we had doused it (usually because it burned itself out) the whole habitat was lost. Total ignorance and stupidity.

[Athy]

Read the link, EA have abandoned systems that have worked for centuries and replaced them with systems that simply don't work. The local knowledge was ignored so can't be used in any way.

 

A similar example is the abandonment of controlled burning of heathland to preserve the habitat of lizards, in the fire service we were then faced with fires raging uncontrolled through heather and gorse that had grown too high with the result that by the time we had doused it (usually because it burned itself out) the whole habitat was lost. Total ignorance and stupidity.

Your post (no. 244) does not include a link as far as I can see, but thanks for the explanation anyway.

[Guest]

You're evidently making a point here, but I am not sure what it is. Who are these people who have abandoned their local knowledge, and why did they do so? if their local knowledge of drainage is so good, why have there been devastating floods? Please explain!

NB Innisfree is spot on for our area. This needs a more in depth answer which I will expalin when back on PC.

[peterboat]

 

In life, it is important to live long enough so that what was once frowned upon becomes OK again.

 

Black pudding and haggis (not usually together) - food for heroes.

together perfik mmmm butties

[Emerald Fox]

Do steerers of butties like eating butties?

[peterboat]

That's surprising: conversions of old buildings can often have more "soul" than brand new buildings (the marvellous impressionist art museum in Paris which is a converted railway station springs to mind). Have the developers of Ward's botched the job?

they knocked down most of the old buildings unfortunately its not that pretty have a look on line

[Athy]

they knocked down most of the old buildings unfortunately its not that pretty have a look on line

Urgh. That's how I imagine a tourist hotel in the Eastern Bloc would look.

[MtB]

Do steerers of butties like eating butties?

 

Or so they prefer eating steers?

[nb Innisfree]

Your post (no. 244) does not include a link as far as I can see, but thanks for the explanation anyway.

Sorry, PaulG's link, The Flood Prevention Society

[George94]

Read the link, EA have abandoned systems that have worked for centuries and replaced them with systems that simply don't work. The local knowledge was ignored so can't be used in any way.

 

A similar example is the abandonment of controlled burning of heathland to preserve the habitat of lizards, in the fire service we were then faced with fires raging uncontrolled through heather and gorse that had grown too high with the result that by the time we had doused it (usually because it burned itself out) the whole habitat was lost. Total ignorance and stupidity.

 

Some of their statements are arguable, to say the least.

 

Example: Inland flooding is on the increase and has been forecast to reach 4.7 million homes annually. Yet there has been no national increase in annual rainfall.

 

It's not annual rainfall that causes flooding, it's a high level of rainfall over a short period - as we saw recently.

[George94]

Having now read most of their report, I can only say that I am unimpressed.

 

It is extremely badly written, and very emotive in tone, with lots of unnecessary ad hom attacks. For example:

 

“I didn’t realise until recently that Environment Agency chairman ‘Lord’ Smith is really
just Mr Chris Smith, former Labour minister. He was a nonentity on the Labour front bench, and
it’s no surprise he’s still of little use”.

 

This is not the way to convince sceptical people.

[Guest]

I know threads go off topic on here but I had hoped one discussing something important might actually stand a chance of being kept relevant to serve as a useful resource for those interested and affected.

 

Seems I was wrong.

 

Cheers.

 

Gareth.

 

Why not post something that brings it back on topic instead of adding to and compounding the off topic nature of the current diversion??

 

Or report it to the mods. they might agree and delete the off topic stuff (or they might not of course)

Edited January 6, 2016 by MJG

[Guest]

 

Some of their statements are arguable, to say the least.

 

Example: Inland flooding is on the increase and has been forecast to reach 4.7 million homes annually. Yet there has been no national increase in annual rainfall.

 

It's not annual rainfall that causes flooding, it's a high level of rainfall over a short period - as we saw recently.

Well yes, I have no argument with that, especially as we are told it has been the warmest and wettest December since records began in 1910. We are into acts of God. This was further compounded by extremely high tides in our case, a sure recipe for disaster.

 

However, I can't speak for the rest of the UK but the Boxing day floods in our area were largely down to lack of maintenance. A great deal of money was spent in our village to prevent flooding after the last one in 1987, which consisted of a piped in gulley which is intended to drain the local hill (works very well if maintained.) This is fitted with a grill to prevent the gulley from blocking, but of course the grill becomes blocked with branches, leaves, dead creatures etc, and nobody maintains it. This is further compounded by ditches not being maintained because farmers subsidies have been removed, and some land has been built upon, hence ditches neglected/filled in. I could go on with many more examples but would need to write an article.

All this is of course to "save money" but they are now (quite rightly in my opinion) awarding flood victims up to 500 quid each from funds. Would this money not be better spent on prevention rather than compensation?

There are more problems ahead when the proposed switching off of 5 pumping stations (to save money) across the West Lancs plain goes ahead in 2017 http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/news/southport-west-lancs/alt-crossens-pumping-stations-set-9615973

 

I doubt we will ever get house insurance again without massive cost and clauses regarding flooding.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Guest

[Athy]

 

All this is of course to "save money" but they are now (quite rightly in my opinion) awarding flood victims up to 500 quid each from funds. Would this money not be better spent on prevention rather than compensation?

 

Yes.

[George94]

Whilst I would argue with the style of the flood report, and quite a lot of the content, I don't argue with the central premise that we shouldn't have one body responsible for both bunny-hugging and flood prevention, especially when it seems to regard bunny lives as more important than human ones.

 

And thanks to this warped set of priorities, far more bunnies have drowned because their habitat has been flooded needlessly. The best way to save bunnies is to keep their burrows dry.

[nb Innisfree]

 

However, I can't speak for the rest of the UK but the Boxing day floods in our area were largely down to lack of maintenance. A great deal of money was spent in our village to prevent flooding after the last one in 1987, which consisted of a piped in gulley which is intended to drain the local hill (works very well if maintained.) This is fitted with a grill to prevent the gulley from blocking, but of course the grill becomes blocked with branches, leaves, dead creatures etc, and nobody maintains it. This is further compounded by ditches not being maintained because farmers subsidies have been removed, and some land has been built upon, hence ditches neglected/filled in. I could go on with many more examples but would need to write an article.

All this is of course to "save money" but they are now (quite rightly in my opinion) awarding flood victims up to 500 quid each from funds. Would this money not be better spent on prevention rather than compensation?

There are more problems ahead when the proposed switching off of 5 pumping stations (to save money) across the West Lancs plain goes ahead in 2017

 

These installations are sometimes seen as part of maintenance when they are in fact capital investments. Maintenance is a separate issue, a continuous ongoing exercise to prevent flooding if and when mother nature decides to send a deluge, increase the maintenance budget.

[Guest]

These installations are sometimes seen as part of maintenance when they are in fact capital investments. Maintenance is a separate issue, a continuous ongoing exercise to prevent flooding if and when mother nature decides to send a deluge, increase the maintenance budget.

Yes I understand that; it was much the same in the days when I worked for the local electricity board. Doesn't make it right though. I still believe that prevention is better than cure, and that (in our case) the gully could have easily been kept clear.

[Jess--]

Yes I understand that; it was much the same in the days when I worked for the local electricity board. Doesn't make it right though. I still believe that prevention is better than cure, and that (in our case) the gully could have easily been kept clear.

If the gully could have easily been kept clear why didn't the locals keep it clear themselves?

 

I appreciate that keeping it clear is the responsibility of an organisation (most likely EA) but surely it's better to take care of a problem than simply take the attitude of "not my job" and then complain when it floods

[Guest]

If the gully could have easily been kept clear why didn't the locals keep it clear themselves?

 

I appreciate that keeping it clear is the responsibility of an organisation (most likely EA) but surely it's better to take care of a problem than simply take the attitude of "not my job" and then complain when it floods

We do to some extent, but it is actually quite dangerous at times. Also many elderly people in the village unable to do this, many of whom report this problem of blockage frequently and nothing is done. There were two local lads up to their armpits in there on Boxing Day trying to clear it. I guess you know what I am going too say next: When the floods were over the whole team came around clearing the main gully, the gullies in the roads etc etc. The other side of the argument is that we could also start dredging the river with shovels and wheelbarrows, damming the river banks up, clearing the grids out in the roads, etc, saving the authorities from any inconvenience (little of this is currently being done.) Would we get a rebate for doing same? (rhetorical question.)

Edited January 6, 2016 by Guest

[Jerra]

 

Some of their statements are arguable, to say the least.

 

Example: Inland flooding is on the increase and has been forecast to reach 4.7 million homes annually. Yet there has been no national increase in annual rainfall.

 

It's not annual rainfall that causes flooding, it's a high level of rainfall over a short period - as we saw recently.

There may not have been a national increase in rainfall but there has been up here. Not many miles away there is an Agricultural College who have been recording the weather for decades.

 

I took the annual rainfall for all years since 1961 and averaged them in an attempt to give a trend. This was the result - with 2015 missing.

 

Sorry it won't let me copy and paste the graph in so suffice it to say in 1961 the annual rainfall was 911mm (note those who think we are losing our identity long before metrication or the Common market/EU just science) in 2014 the annual rainfall was 1079mm.

 

The averaged rainfall for 2014 is 935mm. So to me there is a difference in rainfall and it is an upward trend.

[Guest]

There may not have been a national increase in rainfall but there has been up here. Not many miles away there is an Agricultural College who have been recording the weather for decades.

 

I took the annual rainfall for all years since 1961 and averaged them in an attempt to give a trend. This was the result - with 2015 missing.

 

Sorry it won't let me copy and paste the graph in so suffice it to say in 1961 the annual rainfall was 911mm (note those who think we are losing our identity long before metrication or the Common market/EU just science) in 2014 the annual rainfall was 1079mm.

 

The averaged rainfall for 2014 is 935mm. So to me there is a difference in rainfall and it is an upward trend.

Just out of curiosity, what area are you in? I have seen figures for our area which suggest a slight upward trend (West Lancs.)

[Jerra]

Just out of curiosity, what area are you in? I have seen figures for our area which suggest a slight upward trend (West Lancs.)

On the Eastern side of the Lakes just outside the national park.

[Emerald Fox]

Just seen this meself for the first time, I haven't seen it posted on Canalworld so far (it may have been):

 

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/watch-devastation-caused-floods-between-10690329

[Hawkmoth]

You're evidently making a point here, but I am not sure what it is. Who are these people who have abandoned their local knowledge, and why did they do so? if their local knowledge of drainage is so good, why have there been devastating floods? Please explain!

I think what he's trying to say is that the EA may be like quite a few organizations where they replace old knowledge with young whiz kids with nothing but book learning and ego.

Bob

[Guest]

On the Eastern side of the Lakes just outside the national park.

Thanks. seems like a similar pattern.