Fitting a new pump out toilet

[John V]

 

Another vote for these.

We have two manual ones on our cruiser and one electric and one manual on the sailboat. Simplicity, clean and smell free. Doesn't even use your potable water making your tank last even longer.

 

Hmmmm. that doesn't quite match my memories of using Blake's "Baby" remembering which valve and which pump to use in what order when prarie dogging........

[BlueStringPudding]

i'm not convinced pumpout's don't smell even tho the owner's insist they don't, I have been on a few boats with a pump out and they do smell, it's just that the owner's have got used to it and don't smell it anymore to them.

In my experience neither do the cassette owners. It's MSDS syndrome irrelevant of whether the owner likes the smell of Blue or not.

[mango]

 

Another reason for large vents is the effect on the tank of the more powerful vacuum pump-out systems. I was told years ago that the vent pipe should be at least the 1& ½” dimension of the pump-out connection, to avoid the ‘suck-out’ being greater than the ‘suck-in’ which could lead to implosion of more delicately constructed tanks. Hard to imagine really, but I liked the caution.

 

By the way, all the talk has been of either ‘dump-through’ or electric macerator types, but the marine hand pumped loos are ideal for this system. Ideally a Baby Blake, but the Lavac types have worked well, and even the Jabsco. You have the advantage of a water-seal trap, with freedom from electricity requirements, and a fix-yourself simplicity.

The only hand pumps I have any time for serve beer.

Edited December 15, 2015 by mango

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Hmmmm. that doesn't quite match my memories of using Blake's "Baby" remembering which valve and which pump to use in what order when prarie dogging........

 

I'm not sure there is enough room in our toilet for 'dogging'.

Its hard enough in a car.

[George94]

 

Another vote for these.

We have two manual ones on our cruiser and one electric and one manual on the sailboat. Simplicity, clean and smell free. Doesn't even use your potable water making your tank last even longer.

 

As the un-proud owner of a Lavac, soon to be replaced, I have to disagree.

 

***** Warning: There may be too much information for those of a delicate disposition.******

 

It takes a lot of water to flush them properly, so your black tank fills up faster than it would with a modern marine WC.

 

They are a terrible shape, with the exit in the middle, unlike a normal bowl, where it is at the back in line with your fundament. Result, more brushing required.

 

They are too shallow. Not a problem for some, but I prefer not to dangle in my own waste.

 

You have to explain to guests how they work. And despite that, they'll still do it wrong.

 

They are no more reliable than a macerator. Wipes, excessive quantities of tissue, perfume bottles and tampons will all cause the darn thing to block.

 

You have to wait for the vacuum to subside to see if your flushing efforts have been successful.

 

The one advantage over a macerator is that they are unlikely to break if a solid object is flushed. They'll just block up.

[tommyleyland]

I know this thread may now be dead but if anyone has links to kits for macerated toilets and dump through toilets, that's the main thing I could do with knowing now

[George94]

I know this thread may now be dead but if anyone has links to kits for macerated toilets and dump through toilets, that's the main thing I could do with knowing now

 

Look up Leesan.

[system 4-50]

I got mine from Midland Chandeliers and very happy I am with it. Jabsco.

[Chewbacka]

I know this thread may now be dead but if anyone has links to kits for macerated toilets and dump through toilets, that's the main thing I could do with knowing now

We got ours from Leesan

http://www.leesan.com/index.asp?m=3&cat1=2&t=Toilet+%26+Tank+Packages

 

They may not be the cheapest compared to buying all the bits from different ebay outlets but they do offer a good service and advice.

The kit contains just about everything you need, but the only thing I would have liked in the kit was a couple more stainless jubilee clips - on a couple of hoses I do like to have 2 clips at each end :-)) but you can get these on ebay if you want them.

 

They are usually at Crick boat show where we ordered ours as they were offering a discount against their normal web price.

[cuthound]

I got mine from Midland Chandeliers and very happy I am with it. Jabsco.

Midland Chandeliers? That sounds posh. Can you swing from it?

[system 4-50]

Midland Chandeliers? That sounds posh. Can you swing from it?

Not while mascerating.

[nb Innisfree]

When the flexible pipes on Innisfree started to whiff after the first few months we cured it by using plenty of flushing water to make sure no dirty water was left in the pipes.

[George94]

When the flexible pipes on Innisfree started to whiff after the first few months we cured it by using plenty of flushing water to make sure no dirty water was left in the pipes.

 

Which is a good argument for using canal/river water for flushing. One doesn't want to be parsimonious with flush.

[cmayflower]

What about a vacu-flush?

[nb Innisfree]

 

Which is a good argument for using canal/river water for flushing. One doesn't want to be parsimonious with flush.

We've never used it but I've heard canal and river water can pong as well, though I suppose a small amount of bleach could be added to kill any bacteria.

[George94]

We've never used it but I've heard canal and river water can pong as well, though I suppose a small amount of bleach could be added to kill any bacteria.

 

Bleach? I try to encourage bacteria with nice things like yoghurt and yeast - and plenty of air. The idea is to let aerobic bacteria flourish..

Edited February 4, 2016 by George94

[nb Innisfree]

Bleach? I try to encourage bacteria with nice things like yoghurt and yeast - and plenty of air. The idea is to let aerobic bacteria flourish..

 

Yes but fresh tap water has bleach added anyway to prevent bacteria growth, aim is to imitate that,tank will be impervious to smell percolating through but flexible pipes won't.

[Alan de Enfield]

We've never used it but I've heard canal and river water can pong as well, though I suppose a small amount of bleach could be added to kill any bacteria.

 

Yes - it does.

Our system uses Canal / River water and the bit in the bottom of the bowl makes the bathroom 'pong' even just overnight, leave the boat for a week and it is quite unpleasant

[George94]

 

Yes - it does.

Our system uses Canal / River water and the bit in the bottom of the bowl makes the bathroom 'pong' even just overnight, leave the boat for a week and it is quite unpleasant

 

It's because it contains organisms that die, and then putrefy.

 

Because I am a live-aboard, my bowl water doesn't hang around long enough to be a problem, but I can see that it might be an issue for people who don't live aboard.

[by'eck]

Howdy,

One of my first posts was asking about a pump out toilet for a boat I was about to buy. I took the great advice and tried the cassette for some months and it's just not for me.

I've read up a lot on the pros and cons and what I want is a pump out with separate tank, not the dump through style.

 

Does anyone know of any kits that are a reasonable price? I have a professional to fit this and have plenty of space under my bed to fit the tank.

 

I would prefer to use one without a macerator due to obvious problems, I have seen this: http://www.leesan.com/index.asp?m=3&cat1=2&cat2=41&p=820&t=75+Gallon+Holding+Tank%2C+SaniMarin+C48+12v+DC%2C+Stainless+Fittingsbut don't know if it's a macerator type.

 

One other option is to get all the parts separately, does anyone know what parts I would need?

 

Apologies if its been mentioned already but it seems what you want/need is a vaccum system feeding to remote holding tank. My last sea going boat had a Sealand also known as Mansfield loo very similari to a typical dump through but with a 1.5 inch hose union to a (in this case) cylindrical vacuum reservoir incorporating pressure sensor. This then fed with same bore hose to a large piston pump driven by geared electric motor with twin duck bill valves each side.

 

The pump automatically cut in when the half ball valve on loo was operated as with dump through. This releaved the stored vacuum in turn swiftly dispatching bowl contents. The pump then continued to run (around 20 cycles) pulling waste through reservoir until a user adjustable negative pressure was reached, leaving it ready for next cycle as below.

 

 

The outlet in my case fed outside through skin fitting but would otherwise feed a holding tank. Such kits are still available although now I believe incorporate the vaccum pump and reservoir as one - unfortunately not cheap though.

[Loafer]

 

Apologies if its been mentioned already but it seems what you want/need is a vaccum system feeding to remote holding tank. My last sea going boat had a Sealand also known as Mansfield loo very similari to a typical dump through but with a 1.5 inch hose union to a (in this case) cylindrical vacuum reservoir incorporating pressure sensor. This then fed with same bore hose to a large piston pump driven by geared electric motor with twin duck bill valves each side.

 

The pump automatically cut in when the half ball valve on loo was operated as with dump through. This releaved the stored vacuum in turn swiftly dispatching bowl contents. The pump then continued to run (around 20 cycles) pulling waste through reservoir until a user adjustable negative pressure was reached, leaving it ready for next cycle as below.

 

 

The outlet in my case fed outside through skin fitting but would otherwise feed a holding tank. Such kits are still available although now I believe incorporate the vaccum pump and reservoir as one - unfortunately not cheap though.

 

What was that middle bit again?

[John V]

When I was first starting to fit out Sabina H, I was looking at the various systems around. By then I had experience with sea toilets, portaloos, and dump through systems but had not had any experience with macerator or vacuum systems.

 

I went for advice to a very experienced marine engineer I knew who worked in a Thames yard that built and maintained commercial river vessels of all types.

His advice was that the simplest and most reliable system was a dump through but that required a design of boat that allowed the tank to be directly under the bowl.

A sea toilet feeding a holding tank was the next most reliable but complicated if being used by people unfamiliar with the system.

Macerator systems were very easy to use by landlubbers but because of that very fact were easily blocked or destroyed by incorrect material being flushed.

The worst in his opinion were the vacuum systems, he had a lot of experience with them as they were (at that time anyway) almost the exclusive choice of system by the river ferries and party boats, mostly because of the ability to handle foreign objects, a great advantage for units that had withstand being used by drunken party goers.

He reckoned that they got more work from the river traffic because of non functioning loos than anything else. He said that the system was so complex and that every part had to work perfectly otherwise the whole system just jammed up and that clearing it and getting it going again was horrific.

This of course is based on systems he was working on nearly 20 years ago

 

I fitted a Tecma macerator loo and although it was once damaged by a scent bottle and it is a bit noisy (I believe the later ones are considerably quieter) it has given good service for 12/13 (ish) years liveaboard with only two fails, one from totally furred up pipework (2 1/4" pipework reduced to less than1/2" diameter with scale) and a faulty level indicator that caused an over flow through the ventilation pipe ( overboard but unfortunately because of bad installation a small part of the leak inboard)

 

eta....I should add for correctness sake, the early model of Tecma that I have has a small balance pipe in the imternal pipework that is prone to scaling up (if insufficient vinegar is not used to keep it at bay) an easy and quick job to replace or clean but if it blocks it can make the pump get an airlock and refuse to prime.

I repeat though, the latest pipe system is different and AFAIK there is no balance pipe needed now

Edited February 6, 2016 by John V

[Lizzy]

OK after so many posts I need to start talking about toilets too. My boat was built with a pumpout initially. The stainless steel tank (sound according to surveyor) is still under the bed and some random ex-toilet controls are on the wall next to the loo, so presume electricity is there too. Somebody obviously didn't like it, so ripped it out and now it has a cassette instead.

 

I'd like to re-install a pumpout. I can probably find a macerator model I like online, but I need somebody to install it professionally (and tell me what bits and bobs I need to buy). Does anybody have a recommendation for a competent person, who can do the plumbing and the wiring in West London? Or do I best do this directly through a supplier?