Unmanned narrowboat drifting down the river severn

[Wanderer Vagabond]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7336541.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4098050.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8190905.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8271788.stm

 

etc etc

OMG the Fire Service were dealing with these, how crap is the Highway Agency??

[Tony Dunkley]

Watching the video I expected the boat to be drifting faster. When they made it fast it looks as if they just tied it off with a slack rope. and when it took the strain the rope didn't break, the stud didn't fly off, actually very little happened at all. It makes me wonder about all the talk about the care needed anchoring a Narrowboat, I can't imagine being out in conditions worse than this.

 

Yes, I thought the river current wasn't particularly fast in that video clip, and it was definitely slacker under the bridge where they got the line ashore.

[NigelMoore]

This all recalls a story from some years ago when the AA began advertising itself as the “Fourth emergency service” after the Police, Ambulance and Fire Brigade. This apparently got up the noses of the Coastguard, who rather thought of themselves in that category.

 

The Coastguard got a pan-pan from an amphibious car that ran into trouble crossing the channel, and [presumably after sending help anyway] forwarded the call onto the AA, suggesting that they might like to help out one of their broken-down customers.

[Jerra]

OMG the Fire Service were dealing with these, how crap is the Highway Agency??

When Carlisle flooded the RLNI and the Mountain Rescue (with boats) did most of the rescues which weren't helicoptered out. No mention of the Highways Agency they must be rubbish fancy having to call in other organisations and volunteers.

[Dave_P]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7336541.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4098050.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8190905.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/8271788.stm

 

etc etc

These articles simply prove Lord Dunkley's point. I mean, why weren't CRT on the scene within seconds with a giant net to scoop up the bin lorry and avert danger?

[Max Sinclair]

^{http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14124544.Your_pictures_of_the_river_Severn_floods_in_Worcester/}

 

^{Fifth photo shows the headroom under the bridge and the rubbish, soon be a beaver dam across the river}

^{hard to get a tug under there.}

[Phil Ambrose]

4 words, Don't Feed The Troll.

Phil

[Iain_S]

 

(snip)

A better, and safer, approach to the task of getting the drifting boat and it's landing stage under control would have been to initially deploy that big Danforth anchor that was on the narrowboat. Having brought the whole lot up to the anchor, the RIB could then have been secured tight, and bow on to the pontoon alongside the stern end of the narrow boat. With that done, the whole thing could have been pushed under complete control to the bank and secured.

 

Speaking merely as an armchair helmsman with 20/20 hindsight,

 

The anchor is on the stern, not the best place to deploy it from.

I don't see any sign of anchor chain or warp.

[Tony Dunkley]

The only place to keep tugs in Worcester is Diglis. They used to be moored at Diglis Lock Island, but in the winter were often moved into the Oil Dock, to get them out of the flow.

 

From pictures and memory the air draught of a Bantam was about 10', so quite how Mr Dunkley expects one to get under Worcester Bridge to undertake this rescue considering how high the river is, (yesterday it was 1.6 mtrs above normal) is beyond me, as in times of flood the air draught at the Bridge can be less than 1'. Above Worcester they would have to be moored at Stouport but how Mr Dunkley would get them to Worcester in time, and considering the river locks are now closed with all the Bevere Lock gates reported as being open to allow free passage, I'm not sure.

 

The F & R boat was launched from Worcester Rowing and Canoe Club in Grandstand Rd, as this is the first available launching point above the Bridge. This site is also used by SARA. In times of flood I have seen them launch directly from Grandstand Rd. Below the Bridge they launch at The Kings School slip, below the Cathedral.

 

In times of flood they do not normally attempt to navigate under the Bridge due to the danger of hidden flotsam below the waterline. Worcester Bridge is well known for collecting much rubbish.

 

The crew of the F & R boat are trained in basic vessel recovery, and have undertaken this together with SARA and professionals, and seemed to make very good use of the river current in getting the boat and landing into the side.

 

All gleaned from local knowledge and 2 phone calls!

 

I'm not going to use up time correcting all the nonsense in that, but I will comment on what you call training in 'basic vessel recovery'.

If they really have had some training on getting drifting vessels under control and towing them, then I have to say that it must have been of a very poor standard and of no real worth.

With the good sized anchor ready to hand on the stern of the narrowboat, first priority should have been getting that down and bringing the whole lot to a standstill, and only then, with the boat and pontoon temporarily under control, the towing method decided on, and rigged.

An outboard powered RIB is far from ideal for conventional towing on a short line due to having two widely spaced rope attachment points too far aft, right at the stern. The two options in the circumstances were a bridle on the RIB to a long line to the narrowboat, or, best of all, with the RIB positioned bow to the pontoon, lashed tight alongside the stern of the narrowboat and pushing instead of towing. Once ready to get underway, the anchor would be hove up just clear of the river bed and ready to be let go in the event of any problems with the RIB engine.

Following that procedure would have prevented the pontoon and narrowboat from hitting the bridge pier as it did, and, more importantly, would not have led to the situation when the RIB was circling the boat/pontoon and uncomfortably close to being the meat in boat/pontoon and bridge sandwich.

[RLWP]

This is why the recovery failed then

 

Hang on a minute...

 

Richard

[Loafer]

Some incidents have resulted in me being a totally competent hero, others have made me a bungling tosser.

 

What did the latest one make you?

[gazza]

In the eyes of TD, everything that everyone does except himself is a failure.

 

Must be difficult to live in such a blinkered life where all around you is always wrong

Its a shame he wasn't on hand to advise RCR

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8hHVOI7xLwg

 

This was following on from the crew that lost the boat on a flooded Nene who according to our Tony would have been OK if they hadn't attempted to use the landing stage.

 

Still, I'll soon be home with little un and CBEEBIES so I hope the thread isn't locked by then

Edited December 4, 2015 by gazza

[PaulG]

 

Watching the video clip in the link that 'ditchcrawler' posted I was concerned about two aspects of it. Firstly, the boat was far from the ideal thing for the job, and secondly, it was very obvious that the men operating it had neither training nor experience in either conventional or push-towing, and indeed, there is no reason to expect that they would, or should. have had any such training.

Despite that, they were prepared to give it their best efforts and all credit to them, they did achieve their objective. What concerned me most was that, in doing so, they put themselves at some considerable risk when they were trying to get a line ashore at the railway bridge. If the outboard on the RIB had failed or they had picked up something on the prop when they were between the bridge piers and the boat/landing stage, there may not have been such a happy outcome. Whilst I don't doubt that they are well trained in operating that rescue boat and getting casualties out of the water, there is no way that such training can prepare them for what they took on, and successfully did, in that video clip.

A better, and safer, approach to the task of getting the drifting boat and it's landing stage under control would have been to initially deploy that big Danforth anchor that was on the narrowboat. Having brought the whole lot up to the anchor, the RIB could then have been secured tight, and bow on to the pontoon alongside the stern end of the narrow boat. With that done, the whole thing could have been pushed under complete control to the bank and secured.

I'm willing to bet that a Danforth would not hold a narrowboat and pontoon against that current.

 

You have no idea what the holding conditions are like in the Severn. I have.

 

You also have no knowledge of the training and experience of the crew.

 

In fact, the crews do practice towing. Here's a couple of pictures of them doing just that. Not for the first time, you rely on assumption and guesswork and you are totally wrong!

 

 

[gazza]

And for completeness....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yb7klJX8kBk

[Graham Davis]

 

I'm not going to use up time correcting all the nonsense in that, but I will comment on what you call training in 'basic vessel recovery'.

If they really have had some training on getting drifting vessels under control and towing them, then I have to say that it must have been of a very poor standard and of no real worth.

With the good sized anchor ready to hand on the stern of the narrowboat, first priority should have been getting that down and bringing the whole lot to a standstill, and only then, with the boat and pontoon temporarily under control, the towing method decided on, and rigged.

An outboard powered RIB is far from ideal for conventional towing on a short line due to having two widely spaced rope attachment points too far aft, right at the stern. The two options in the circumstances were a bridle on the RIB to a long line to the narrowboat, or, best of all, with the RIB positioned bow to the pontoon, lashed tight alongside the stern of the narrowboat and pushing instead of towing. Once ready to get underway, the anchor would be hove up just clear of the river bed and ready to be let go in the event of any problems with the RIB engine.

Following that procedure would have prevented the pontoon and narrowboat from hitting the bridge pier as it did, and, more importantly, would not have led to the situation when the RIB was circling the boat/pontoon and uncomfortably close to being the meat in boat/pontoon and bridge sandwich.

 

No, please do tell what nonsense I have written in my post?

 

You were not there, are making your usual huge presumptions, you obviously know little or nothing about the Severn or Worcester, and are as usual using any excuse to massage the huge chip on your shoulder.

 

It is about time you realised that you are not always right and that there are professionals out there in different parts of the country who might know better than you, especially when they were on the ground dealing with the situation in a timeous and favourable manner.

 

I now await your apology to both myself and Worcester Fire & Rescue, but somehow I doubt you are man enough to offer that

[Dave_P]

Here are my experiences to your list.

 

1, hateful things, dog treats only = OK teeth.

 

2, you are lucky, Mrs Gazza let the cat out the bag about 10 mins in

 

3, I've never been diverted to Runcorn, we did get diverted over the Welland Valley on the stunning Harringworth viaduct on route to Leicester.

 

4,Never been to Bangkok, accidentally got too drunk in Kings Lynn once.

 

5, I've never bombed anyone, apart from a dive bomb in the municipal pool.

 

6, Eve has a lot to answer for.

 

7, haven't got a cat but the dog has done similar.

 

8, Agreed, nasty idea.

 

9, a sharp Knife and a pair of pliers is a good way to extract a buggered cork from a wine bottle. Shove knife into remains of cork, twist and pull up with pliers, and you shouldn't end up with a corked bottle.

 

10, who turned out the lights?

 

I have never blamed C&RT for any of the above BTW.

1. Really? Then I pity you. The scratching is probably the U.K.s finest contribution to world cuisine, narrowly edging out the chip.

[Tony Dunkley]

I'm willing to bet that a Danforth would not hold a narrowboat and pontoon against that current.

 

You have no idea what the holding conditions are like in the Severn. I have.

 

You also have no knowledge of the training and experience of the crew.

 

In fact, the crews do practice towing. Here's a couple of pictures of them doing just that. Not for the first time, you rely on assumption and guesswork and you are totally wrong!

 

 

 

That's ' practice towing ' is it ?

No line from the narrowboat to the leading RIB, and a very distinct propeller wash from the narrowboat.

Looks like the narrowboat's picked up some rubbish on the prop, and they're giving him a bit of help up to the next place he can tie up and get it off.

[Dave_P]

Message to mods: please don't lock this thread, it's been amusing me all day and keeping me sane while trying to cope with a horrible uni assignment. T.D. is fast becoming a forum legend in my mind!

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/news/the-dress-actual-colour-brand-and-price-details-revealed-10074686.htmlso what colour is the dress Tony? We need your wisdom!

[PaulG]

 

That's ' practice towing ' is it ?

No line from the narrowboat to the leading RIB, and a very distinct propeller wash from the narrowboat.

Looks like the narrowboat's picked up some rubbish on the prop, and they're giving him a bit of help up to the next place he can tie up and get it off.

The narrowboat was under tow because it had no serviceable engine - a fact that can be easily confirmed as the owner is a member of this forum. See the discussion below

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66788

 

"very distinct propeller wash".....

 

Not for the first time, you are completely and utterly wrong!

Edited December 4, 2015 by PaulG

[Graham Davis]

That is now THREE apologies awaited, Mr Dunkley. Are you man enough to give them?

 

And I'm still waiting the details of all the "nonsense" in my posting.

[PaulG]

That is now THREE apologies awaited, Mr Dunkley. Are you man enough to give them?

 

And I'm still waiting the details of all the "nonsense" in my posting.

[nb Innisfree]

Hindsight really is a wonderful thing, during my 28 years in the fire service I can't recall one incident that we had rehearsed beforehand, every exercise was based on what went wrong in a previous incident but those circumstances never arose again, always something enexpected would ruin some officers carefully laid preparations. So we had to bumble along the best we could while trying to look as if we had everything under control and trying to ignore a lot of 'useful advice' from onlookers, bless 'em. We were the so called 'elite'

Edited December 4, 2015 by nb Innisfree

[Dave Payne]

The narrowboat was under tow because it had no serviceable engine - a fact that can be easily confirmed as the owner is member of this forum. See the discussion below

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66788

 

"very distinct propeller wash".....

 

Not for the first time, you are completely and utterly wrong!

 

 

Was just going to say thats Matty Hands on his epic journey!

[PaulG]

 

 

Was just going to say thats Matty Hands on his epic journey!

And it was bloody epic.

 

We'd gone up the Severn aiming for Worcester, but the Severn was rising fast and by the time we got to Severn Motor Yacht Club, my little 27HP donkey was flat out and we were literally going nowhere, so we moored up to one of their vacant pontoons, as did another narrowboat that was struggling.

 

Couldn't believe it when we heard the sound of outboards and looked out of the windows to find the "Unicorn" flotilla sweeping past.

 

How I envied their plentiful supply of horsepower!

[Tony Dunkley]

The narrowboat was under tow because it had no serviceable engine - a fact that can be easily confirmed as the owner is member of this forum. See the discussion below

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66788

 

"very distinct propeller wash".....

 

Not for the first time, you are completely and utterly wrong!

 

So, it was being shoved along by a rescue boat with a big outboard on it, . . . .so what have you proved, or demonstrated, by establishing that ?

Nothing, except that what I said earlier about pushing being a better option than towing was right, and that whoever was on that rescue boat when the photo's were taken does know how to do it.

Of course, having done that, you've now got to explain why the rescue boat in the video clip at Worcester didn't get onto the stern of the narrowboat + pontoon, push it clear of the first bridge, and prevent it from clouting one of the piers.

Incidentally, your doubts about whether or not an anchor would hold in the river bed at Worcester are completely irrelevant. Had the anchor failed to hold and kept dragging, it wouldn't have mattered, because the drifting boat would have been moving a lot slower and head to stream while they got the RIB lashed to it's stern.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Tony Dunkley