Narrow Boat World Article About Our Incident at Hillmorton on 25th August

[billS]

A bit rich coming from someone who hides behind the name of duck's anatomy.

 

did you have an opinion on the article or CRT's risk assessment or are you just stalking again?

As my forum name consists of my first name and the first letter of my surname, and my boat name is displayed, I can't be very good at hiding.

 

Your disguise however, is impenetrable. Your internet persona comes across as an adolescent, anxious to display its intellect and verbal skills, but unable to do so without belittling anyone who does not share it's view on a subject. Perhaps when it grows up a bit, it might be able to learn some manners, to shed it's superiority complex, and to argue it's case in a more mature manner.

 

My opinion about the article is not too dissimilar to your own.

 

As for stalking, that's just your internet persona showing a touch of paranoia.

Edited October 30, 2015 by billS

[CDS]

 

Sorry, but you are way off the mark with this comment, from what I have seen CaRT do try to help boaters who have serious health problems.

 

If you require further information please PM me, perhaps when you are aware of the facts you will realise how inaccurate your comments are.

 

L

 

 

 

 

I agree, although they are horribly inconsistent in those they choose to help.

LEO have sent you PM facts are as relayed to me this morning,Alenafour,not too sure what your agreeing with?

" Horribly inconsistent" thats putting it mildly.What is billS going on about? To think he accused me of " Ranting"

yesterday.

Edited October 30, 2015 by CDS

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

Without actually being able to see the General Locking RA you can't know whether or not the action is dealt with or not. From what I can see the article argues against itself on more than one occasion and is written in a confrontational manner. I personally feel after seeing the RA I have that it covers the personal aspect of safety and mentions the training and other RA for general locking. This is how many RA's are dealt with theses days as I explained earlier. (in other worlds, the incorrect RA is being used here creating a false impression, particularly when there is a RA known about and mentioned in the article that does mention it - surely we are discussing the wrong RA here?)

 

I have attempted to explain this once but will do so again in a different way. CaRT have a generalised risk assessment for lock operation that identifies over 20 hazards. Two of those are 'cilling' and 'hang-ups'. However, this generalised risk assessment is not used at Hillmorton according to CaRT

 

Instead, S.E. Region have produced their own VLK risk assessment which does not reference the generalised one it but instead attempts to define its own hazards (e.g boat collision) relating to lock operation. In doing so it makes no mention of 'cilling' or 'hang-ups' being a hazard.

 

S.E. Region are not alone in this respect.

 

Understandably, in view of the RA, the S.E. method statement does not mention these two hazards in its summary of hazards. Perversely, it then goes on to suggest the VLK should ‘Check repeatedly that boats will not become hung up on ropes, lock gates or stage boards whilst water levels change' as part of the VLK's safe method of operation of the lock. In doing so it does not explain why this should be done or what action needs taking if the check finds the boat not floating freely.

 

My suggestion is that because these two documents are defective, there is no reason to believe that training pays sufficient attention to these areas.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Allan(nb Albert)

[Tisinca]

Well they haven't overlooked it on this occasion but instead told the Boater in Question that they will have to

find the money for a marina,meanwhile here is your six month license for not moving enough.Your obviously

too busy with your blog to experience the real life on the canal,shiny boat,retired on a good pension we know

your type lol.It always amazes me how you bloggers know each others names,mad together in community.

Bloggers with Shiny boats ,retired on a modest pension, who all know each other's name .....Its a great community .. As with all genuine continuos cruisers ,some who work and others that just enjoy the peace of Winter cruising we keep the cut open and make it a great place to live .when all the shiny marina boats are tucked up on their berths ...Come and join us ,you are half way there ..You are more than welcome !!!

[CDS]

[Starcoaster]

I think it is pretty obvious, from the attitude of the CRT chap in charge of volunteering who briefly posted on here, where the problem lies.

 

 

Anyway, to Allan: why not do some proper journalism, send a mole in to be trained as a volocky and get the real inside story.

 

Already done Nick

I spent some time in email back and fore with John Highmore, the South East Waterways volocky manager recently, who suggested that I go along to a "training day!" However, as none were scheduled soon, I then went along last month to meet and interview both John and a volocky team at work.

I spent several hours there to observe them at work, find out in detail what they do, what their training involves, and how this all applies on the ground, etc etc.

My piece is queued for next month's copy!

[Emerald Fox]

Should you spread it here for proof reading, you know, ye checking of apostrophes and grandma?

[Tisinca]

PS Good to see you on here ... It needs boaters like you who aren't scared to say what you truly believe in ,and can take the flack from some of the so called big players on here !!!

[Starcoaster]

Should you spread it here for proof reading, you know, ye checking of apostrophes and grandma?

I'm afraid that "scooping" the publication that commissions and pays for first series rights to the piece doesn't generally go down very well with them!

[ditchcrawler]

Bloggers with Shiny boats ,retired on a modest pension, who all know each other's name .....Its a great community .. As with all genuine continuos cruisers ,some who work and others that just enjoy the peace of Winter cruising we keep the cut open and make it a great place to live .when all the shiny marina boats are tucked up on their berths ...Come and join us ,you are half way there ..You are more than welcome !!!

These postings really piss me off.

My boat was shiny after its repaint, unfortunately its not like that now, I moor in a marina and I have a pension, something I worked and planned for, I also blog.

Now the bit that is common to both of us is that we are boaters, but for some reason you want to split the community and claim that all the boat owners have boats in marinas are against you.

Probably, I don't know you, but I could lump you in with some of the other so called CCs I know of who never move, I do ten times as much boating as you do, so does that make me better or worse than you, or as I would like to think, just a fellow boater.

[Emerald Fox]

I'm afraid that "scooping" the publication that commissions and pays for first series rights to the piece doesn't generally go down very well with them!

 

Can you 'outscoop' Maffi ?! (geddit??!!)

[Tisinca]

These postings really piss me off.

My boat was shiny after its repaint, unfortunately its not like that now, I moor in a marina and I have a pension, something I worked and planned for, I also blog.

Now the bit that is common to both of us is that we are boaters, but for some reason you want to split the community and claim that all the boat owners have boats in marinas are against you.

Probably, I don't know you, but I could lump you in with some of the other so called CCs I know of who never move, I do ten times as much boating as you do, so does that make me better or worse than you, or as I would like to think, just a fellow boater.

you say that you don't know me ,but you have put comments on my blog.. Check our blog .. Nb Inca . We have done over a 1000 miles and 800 locks in just over 6 months...Check your facts before you go slagging people off ....guess what pisses me off ....

[Guest]

These postings really piss me off.

My boat was shiny after its repaint, unfortunately its not like that now, I moor in a marina and I have a pension, something I worked and planned for, I also blog.

Now the bit that is common to both of us is that we are boaters, but for some reason you want to split the community and claim that all the boat owners have boats in marinas are against you.

Probably, I don't know you, but I could lump you in with some of the other so called CCs I know of who never move, I do ten times as much boating as you do, so does that make me better or worse than you, or as I would like to think, just a fellow boater.

I am not really sure that type of post is worth taking remotely seriously though are they?

 

Once someone starts banging on about other peoples pensions and 'shiny boats' it just smacks of jealousy to me.

 

The only real place I ever really hear such 'noddyesque' comments are on here I never heard it on the canals themselves.

 

The reality is people who make such silly comments as that simply wouldn't have the balls to say it to your face. The further truth is that most folk wouldn't think it anyway., best let those that do grizzle on to themselves.

[valrene9600]

 

Already done Nick

I spent some time in email back and fore with John Highmore, the South East Waterways volocky manager recently, who suggested that I go along to a "training day!" However, as none were scheduled soon, I then went along last month to meet and interview both John and a volocky team at work.

I spent several hours there to observe them at work, find out in detail what they do, what their training involves, and how this all applies on the ground, etc etc.

My piece is queued for next month's copy!

Sorry but others might know you but I have no idea what paper / magazine will your article appear.

[RLWP]

Sorry but others might know you but I have no idea what paper / magazine will your article appear.

 

Towpath Talk.

 

It's easy to forget forum regulars who you've kicked around with for years and shared their progress with are completely unknown to others

 

Richard

[Starcoaster]

Yes thanks Richard, that one will be in the TT December copy.

[valrene9600]

valrene9600, on 30 Oct 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I would expect them to overlook over staying at the very least. I know for a fact they do this. Quite what else you expect them to do I'm not sure. I am certain if asked they would assist in moving the boat to a more convenient location in the tragic circumstances.
Please don't be anti crt on everything.

 

Well they haven't overlooked it on this occasion but instead told the Boater in Question that they will have to

find the money for a marina,meanwhile here is your six month license for not moving enough.Your obviously

too busy with your blog to experience the real life on the canal,shiny boat,retired on a good pension we know

your type lol.It always amazes me how you bloggers know each others names,mad together in community.

What the hell are you on about. My comments were of personal experiences. I suggest the boater in question seeks out someone senior to solve their problem. I can assure you i have had nothing but help from CRT and for sure never hassled to move on.

We are continuous cruisers covering a lot of miles. As do a lot of C/C we do a blog and you get to know lots of folk not all boaters i might add. Just what is the problem there. Are you unable to make friends? As for the pension, it doesn`t bear comment. You have no idea.

I have for sure read some crap replys on this forum but yours takes the biscuit. Get yourself a life.

Oh by the way the boat it`s not to shiny as I just painted it myself and it`s not a first class boat painter finish..

[Tecka]

I have attempted to explain this once but will do so again in a different way. CaRT have a generalised risk assessment for lock operation that identifies over 20 hazards. Two of those are 'cilling' and 'hang-ups'. However, this generalised risk assessment is not used at Hillmorton according to CaRT

 

Instead, S.E. Region have produced their own VLK risk assessment which does not reference the generalised one it but instead attempts to define its own hazards (e.g boat collision) relating to lock operation. In doing so it makes no mention of 'cilling' or 'hang-ups' being a hazard.

 

S.E. Region are not alone in this respect.

 

And my point remains the same. It's also the first time I've noticed the tittle VLK Riak Assessment. imo this makes it exactly what I have been saying all along - this is a risk assessment put in place to protect the VLK from risk, hence the term boat collision which would effect the VLK but not hang ups which doesn't effect the VLK.

The general lock RA, imo, stands anywhere and should be referenced - I agree. But the lack of reference doesn't void it - IF the VLK has also read it (and signed to say so)

Do you have proof of your assertion that it's not used at Hillmorton by CaRT? If it is used it then cross referencing is not needed as they would both be independent.

As I pointed out earlier the reference to the training videos and CAATS means they may well be referenced, without seeing these I do not know.

Understandably, in view of the RA, the S.E. method statement does not mention these two hazards in its summary of hazards. Perversely, it then goes on to suggest the VLK should ‘Check repeatedly that boats will not become hung up on ropes, lock gates or stage boards whilst water levels change' as part of the VLK's safe method of operation of the lock. In doing so it does not explain why this should be done or what action needs taking if the check finds the boat not floating freely.

 

My suggestion is that because these two documents are defective, there is no reason to believe that training pays sufficient attention to these areas.

 

I'm missing something still on this one, does the method statement talk about the hazards or not. From your statement I get the impression that it's mentioned as a specific point in the method statement but not in the summary? If this is the case then what's the real issue,? my read on it is simply that it's worth mentioning in the main text but not deemed a regular enough occurrence to make the summary section.

As far as what action should be taken, I have not seen the document but IF it says something along the lines of 'if in doubt - drop the paddles and have a look' anywhere then job done.

The main point to me has always been that the VLK knows the skipper is in charge and this is crystal clear in the RA. So long as this point is clear to all it really doesn't matter what the VLK would do to resolve the issue on their own accord. If the skipper says drop, then drop they do. If the boat isn't floating freely it is the skippers responsibility to ensure the incident doesn't get worse.

So back to Cart ensuring the VLK know the salient point - they are not in charge, the boater is.

As always this is all typed in good faith and is all in my honest opinion.

Edit to ask question

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tecka

[Tisinca]

I am not really sure that type of post is worth taking remotely seriously though are they?

Once someone starts banging on about other peoples pensions and 'shiny boats' it just smacks of jealousy to me.

The only real place I ever really hear such 'noddyesque' comments are on here I never heard it on the canals themselves.

The reality is people who make such silly comments as that simply wouldn't have the balls to say it to your face. The further truth is that most folk wouldn't think it anyway., best let those that do grizzle on to themselves.

noddyesque , grizzle . Unbelievable !!!

[Guest]

noddyesque , grizzle . Unbelievable !!!

Is that it?

 

The problem with posts like the one being commented on is that they are nothing more than divisiive twaddle and as said do not actually reflect what goes on in the main on the waterways.

 

Of course yes there is some snobbery on the part of some boaters just s there is some boaters who for whatever reason appear to resent others who have shinier boats as you put it than they do but in the main boaters of all types rub along fine.

Your type of comment is unhelpful to say the least.

[Tisinca]

I am not really sure that type of post is worth taking remotely seriously though are they?

Once someone starts banging on about other peoples pensions and 'shiny boats' it just smacks of jealousy to me.

The only real place I ever really hear such 'noddyesque' comments are on here I never heard it on the canals themselves.

The reality is people who make such silly comments as that simply wouldn't have the balls to say it to your face. The further truth is that most folk wouldn't think it anyway., best let those that do grizzle on to themselves.

currently moored in Berkhamsted ..and yes I have the balls to say it to your face ... You are more than welcome to come and talk it over a pint , a cup of tea , glass of wine or what ever you your tipple is ..

[Guest]

currently moored in Berkhamsted ..and yes I have the balls to say it to your face ... You are more than welcome to come and talk it over a pint , a cup of tea , glass of wine or what ever you your tipple is ..

Well given I am in Penrith in Cumbria at the moment that is hardly going to happen is it?

[John Holden]

I'm sorry????

 

All the 'personal' details were out in the public domain by Alan Fincher and family on this forum.

 

 

 

This forum, or any other is not "public domain". It is copyright.

Public domain has a specific meaning and it means generally information that can not be covered by copyright such as names and addresses.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

Do you have proof of your assertion that it's not used at Hillmorton by CaRT?

It's not my assertion that the General Lock RA is not used at Hillmorton (and S.E. Region). The assertion is made by CaRT.

 

 

 

[NilesMI]

The main point to me has always been that the VLK knows the skipper is in charge and this is crystal clear in the RA. So long as this point is clear to all it really doesn't matter what the VLK would do to resolve the issue on their own accord. If the skipper says drop, then drop they do. If the boat isn't floating freely it is the skippers responsibility to ensure the incident doesn't get worse.

So back to Cart ensuring the VLK know the salient point - they are not in charge, the boater is.

As always this is all typed in good faith and is all in my honest opinion.

 

Is the bit about the skipper being in charge (of the lock operation) a definitive statement of CaRTs view. If so where have they stated it?