Doing the Trent

[Momac]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

So it would be fair to say that you have quite a good idea of your fuel consumption then?

Yes

But I don't really see why a canal boat owner  would not also understand fuel consumption. Is running out of fuel common on the canals?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Yes

But I don't really see why a canal boat owner  would not also understand fuel consumption. Is running out of fuel common on the canals?

I wouldn't have thought so. 

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Yes

But I don't really see why a canal boat owner  would not also understand fuel consumption. Is running out of fuel common on the canals?

Running an engine in tick over on a canal will use much less fuel than pushing upstream on a river.

 

It might seem obvious to most but to some who have not experienced it before it could catch them by surprise. 

[Momac]

6 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

There is a long stretch of the Trent now with no fuel available.

 

Could easily catch out the unprepared!

Not sure what has changed much.

For a while there was diesel st Torksey.

There was diesel at West Stockwith but no longer.

Entering the tidal river with ample fuel has always been a wise move.

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Running an engine in tick over on a canal will use much less fuel than pushing upstream on a river.

 

It might seem obvious to most but to some who have not experienced it before it could catch them by surprise. 

Which is possibly why the guide suggests to fill your tank prior to venturing on the river. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

51 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Running an engine in tick over on a canal will use much less fuel than pushing upstream on a river.

 

It might seem obvious to most but to some who have not experienced it before it could catch them by surprise. 

If you ran your engine on tick over you wouldn’t get far on the canals, most on canals run about 1100-1500rpm give or take depending on boat/engine.
 As @LadyG found out you don’t have to use as much RPM as you think especially running with the tide or you get there too early causing issues. Ive never had to push my engine hard on the Trent to make way and use loads more fuel.

 The tidal Trent is one of those rivers that causes Narrowboaters apprehension the first time they do it, be it a newbie or an experienced boater. Most find it not as bad once they do it and often wonder what the fuss is about, but no matter how many times you do it, it has to be respected or it will catch you out.

Edited July 25, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Momac]

25 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Running an engine in tick over on a canal will use much less fuel than pushing upstream on a river.

On the other hand going with the flow achieves better mpg compared to a canal

Today Torksey to Cromwell was uneconomical . The fresh water flow far exceeded the incoming tide.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Yes

But I don't really see why a canal boat owner  would not also understand fuel consumption. Is running out of fuel common on the canals?

I have done it after some "borrowed" my fuel, on the way up Hatton

[Naughty Cal]

10 hours ago, MartynG said:

On the other hand going with the flow achieves better mpg compared to a canal

Today Torksey to Cromwell was uneconomical . The fresh water flow far exceeded the incoming tide.

Going with the flow isn't always possible though as you well know.

 

How would you get back to your mooring from Cromwell if you were only going with the flow?

10 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

If you ran your engine on tick over you wouldn’t get far on the canals, most on canals run about 1100-1500rpm give or take depending on boat/engine.
 As @LadyG found out you don’t have to use as much RPM as you think especially running with the tide or you get there too early causing issues. Ive never had to push my engine hard on the Trent to make way and use loads more fuel.

 The tidal Trent is one of those rivers that causes Narrowboaters apprehension the first time they do it, be it a newbie or an experienced boater. Most find it not as bad once they do it and often wonder what the fuss is about, but no matter how many times you do it, it has to be respected or it will catch you out.

If we had run NC's engine at 1500rpm on a canal there would have been no water left in the canal 🤣🤣🤣

 

It was 750rpm only on the shallower ones like the Nottingham, Selby, Chesterfield,  etc.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

12 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Going with the flow isn't always possible though as you well know.

 

How would you get back to your mooring from Cromwell if you were only going with the flow?

If we had run NC's engine at 1500rpm on a canal there would have been no water left in the canal 🤣🤣🤣

 

It was 750rpm only on the shallower ones like the Nottingham, Selby, Chesterfield,  etc.

That’s what I mean we’re talking about two totally different types of boats and boating. 

[Momac]

26 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Going with the flow isn't always possible though as you well you know

 

 

I did not say it was always possible.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by MartynG

[Tony Brooks]

To add another dimension to the fuel consumption debate. Although clean  burning a low speed and idle the indirect injection engines that a very large number, possibly the majority, of narrowboats use has a rather less well known trait that may well catch narrow boaters out when on rivers and running at higher than normal speeds.

 

As speed increases, the engine has to do more work in pushing the air through the throat in the head into the pre-combustion chamber. This starts to cause an increase in fuel consumption. I first became aware when a taxi driver (car based, not London cab) took his family to Scotland and when he got back brought the car in for us to look at high fuel consumption. It seems that during flat out motorway driving, his diesel economy was similar to petrol engine cars. Diesel cars in these days tended not to have turbos.

 

I think that this could well catch a narrow boater who is used to canal consumption out when they go on rivers, especially if it involves punching the tide.

[IanD]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

To add another dimension to the fuel consumption debate. Although clean  burning a low speed and idle the indirect injection engines that a very large number, possibly the majority, of narrowboats use has a rather less well known trait that may well catch narrow boaters out when on rivers and running at higher than normal speeds.

 

As speed increases, the engine has to do more work in pushing the air through the throat in the head into the pre-combustion chamber. This starts to cause an increase in fuel consumption. I first became aware when a taxi driver (car based, not London cab) took his family to Scotland and when he got back brought the car in for us to look at high fuel consumption. It seems that during flat out motorway driving, his diesel economy was similar to petrol engine cars. Diesel cars in these days tended not to have turbos.

 

I think that this could well catch a narrow boater who is used to canal consumption out when they go on rivers, especially if it involves punching the tide.

Actually engine efficiency is about 50% higher at river rpm and power levels than canal ones, see attached plot for a Beta 43.

 

What's much more likely to catch them out is that fuel consumption in litres/hour or litres/km is much higher because engine power goes up as rpm^3.

Edited July 26, 2023 by IanD

[Mike Todd]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have done it after some "borrowed" my fuel, on the way up Hatton

Shouldn't have stopped mid way on Hatton . . . 

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Shouldn't have stopped mid way on Hatton . . . 

Petrol station half way up...

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

7 hours ago, IanD said:

Actually engine efficiency is about 50% higher at river rpm and power levels than canal ones, see attached plot for a Beta 43.

 

What's much more likely to catch them out is that fuel consumption in litres/hour or litres/km is much higher because engine power goes up as rpm^3.

Have you ever heard of the phrase “Keep it simple stupid” ? 😂

[IanD]

7 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Have you ever heard of the phrase “Keep it simple stupid” ? 😂

 

What Tony posted might well be true for IDI diesel taxis thrashed down the motorway at 4500rpm, due to engine pumping losses.

 

It's certainly not true for IDI (or DI) canal boat engines, in fact exactly the opposite is true -- and I posted real data to show this.

 

What's your objection to this correction?

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by IanD

[Momac]

A narrowboat left Torksey on Tuesday. They had arrived at Torksey via Cromwell but were confused. They asked the lock keeper at Torksey  for  directions to Keadby.

For some reason they thought the route to Keadby was through Torksey Lock.

They did eventually  go in the correct direction and to be fair they did  have a portable  vhf.

 

 

[rusty69]

10 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Have you ever heard of the phrase “Keep it simple stupid” ? 😂

I suppose a simplified instruction could be written into one of the river guides, if such a thing exists. Something along the lines of "ensure fuel tanks are full before venturing onto the river". 

[Naughty Cal]

On 24/07/2023 at 15:47, MartynG said:

I did not notice any stranded boats. But I had focus on our route , avoiding exol pride a couple of ships plus ovoiding upsetting a small slow boat.

I always stick to the charted route/deeper water.

There was a great deal of mud only just covered  today despite being an hour off high water and big tides. 

Not sure if this is the same F37 that was high and dry on the Humber the other day, couldn't make out the name, but if it is they have not had a good run again!!

 

https://fb.watch/m26RE0khzK/

 

[Dave123]

On 26/03/2007 at 12:30, RichardH said:

Thanks for all your help and guidance guys.

 

Why am I now rather nervous and thinking a trip through Standedge and b*ggering up my lovely new paint job would be less likely to bring on a coronary.

 

Incidentally rallyfan what was 'Mr Helpful already in the lock's top tactic?

 

Cheers all

I found going in at Keadby far less nerve-wracking than steering through Standedge tunnel!

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not sure if this is the same F37 that was high and dry on the Humber the other day, couldn't make out the name, but if it is they have not had a good run again!!

 

https://fb.watch/m26RE0khzK/

 

The grounding doesn't seem to have made the news?

[Naughty Cal]

5 hours ago, MartynG said:

The grounding doesn't seem to have made the news?

Not sure why!

 

 

[Momac]

38 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not sure why!

Maybe they didn't  want/need to be rescued.

 

The video of the rescue where the F37 was towed in made me think the rescue  folks need training how to tow a boat. It looked like far too much power applied. I thought the smaller rib was doing a better job.  Also the way the rescue guy went over the rails of the F37 was ridiculously unsafe. 

[matty40s]

13 hours ago, MartynG said:

A narrowboat left Torksey on Tuesday. They had arrived at Torksey via Cromwell but were confused. They asked the lock keeper at Torksey  for  directions to Keadby.

For some reason they thought the route to Keadby was through Torksey Lock.

They did eventually  go in the correct direction and to be fair they did  have a portable  vhf.

 

 

There seriously are a lot of people nowadays who dont even know what a map is, where North, S,E,W is, what off road is, and how to get somewhere if they havnt got an electronic device telling them to go round a roundabout to the left hand side....