Is time up for diesel engines?

[gazza]

no I offered you a tenner for your worthless lump of car, be happy but mind you don't crash with those blinkers on, got to go work now

how brilliant you are now listening to a smarmy sales man in. A shiny suit, and insulting others for not buying a new car, the thing is we don't care are cars are throw away, not pride and joy, enjoy it while it lasts sheeple I'm off to work

You really are an obnoxious plonker aren't you?

 

Where have I insulted anyone for not buying a new car?

 

You could start an argument in a bloody phone box.

Edited September 24, 2015 by gazza

[Athy]

 

 

 

3) Wrong Again !! Petrol powered trains were used in the First World War on the narrow gauge railways which supplied our troops from the standard gauge railheads.

...and more recently, I think, in the railcars of the '20s and '30s which looked like buses on rails, because that's what they were. I am uncertain on this point, some may have been diesel but I think some were petrol-driven.

 

One thing puzzles me about this diesel v. petrol debate. It is stated that a diesel engine excretes more of certain pollutants than a petrol engine. BUT a diesel-powered vehicle burns so much less fuel. For example our last car, petrol-driven, averaged 34 mpg. Our current one, same make, same size of engine, averages 49 mpg because it's a diesel. So, per mile travelled, it's surely going to blow fewer nasties into the atmosphere. is there a flaw in this way of thinking?

[Guest]

...and more recently, I think, in the railcars of the '20s and '30s which looked like buses on rails, because that's what they were. I am uncertain on this point, some may have been diesel but I think some were petrol-driven.

 

One thing puzzles me about this diesel v. petrol debate. It is stated that a diesel engine excretes more of certain pollutants than a petrol engine. BUT a diesel-powered vehicle burns so much less fuel. For example our last car, petrol-driven, averaged 34 mpg. Our current one, same make, same size of engine, averages 49 mpg because it's a diesel. So, per mile travelled, it's surely going to blow fewer nasties into the atmosphere. is there a flaw in this way of thinking?

The problem with Diesels is yes they produce less co2 but they produce soot particulates and nitrogen oxides. Both of which are harmful to health. Edited September 24, 2015 by MJG

[gazza]

...and more recently, I think, in the railcars of the '20s and '30s which looked like buses on rails, because that's what they were. I am uncertain on this point, some may have been diesel but I think some were petrol-driven.

 

One thing puzzles me about this diesel v. petrol debate. It is stated that a diesel engine excretes more of certain pollutants than a petrol engine. BUT a diesel-powered vehicle burns so much less fuel. For example our last car, petrol-driven, averaged 34 mpg. Our current one, same make, same size of engine, averages 49 mpg because it's a diesel. So, per mile travelled, it's surely going to blow fewer nasties into the atmosphere. is there a flaw in this way of thinking?

No, the flaw is concentrating on NOx and Particulates

 

That they go further to a gallon due to being more thermally efficient seems to have gone by the wayside. As oil is a finite resource you would have thought it would have come into the equation, but as ever they look at things from a very small perspective.

[peterboat]

The problem with Diesels is yes they produce less co2 but they produce soot particulates and nitrous oxide. Both of which are harmful to health.

the nox is attached to the particulates which in a modern diesel are very small so small in fact they can pass from the lungs into the blood stream therefore entering into all parts of our bodies causing cancer

Not very much, sadly:

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/draft-aq-plans

i plowed through this and their is a transport section and basically they are pushing hybrid/electric cars hydrogen, lpg natural gas anything but diesels really. the method of limitation would seem to be you cant bring your diesel here mate which will work if you have a car you cant use you will get rid of it

[Machpoint005]

Oh, so those wonderful electric cars are fine because the emissions are elsewhere, the thermal efficiency of the whole generation and transmission system is ridiculously low, and the energy required and the pollution released on manufacture and scrapping of the batteries don't matter?

[peterboat]

Oh, so those wonderful electric cars are fine because the emissions are elsewhere, the thermal efficiency of the whole generation and transmission system is ridiculously low, and the energy required and the pollution released on manufacture and scrapping of the batteries don't matter?

plenty of websites out there most batteries are recycled have long lives plus electric motors are over 90 percent efficient and some of the super conductor ones if they can ever get them to run at normal temp will run forever on a u2 remember those its not that we have a choice really we have to cut our pollution down it would seem we definitely had the best of it

[Machpoint005]

plenty of websites out there most batteries are recycled have long lives plus electric motors are over 90 percent efficient and some of the super conductor ones if they can ever get them to run at normal temp will run forever on a u2 remember those its not that we have a choice really we have to cut our pollution down it would seem we definitely had the best of it

 

That's just one aspect. What about the pollution at power stations, and what about the vast transmission losses?

We've been recycling the lead in batteries for decades.

[Guest]

a month ago I could of told you vw were fiddling there emissions, if I could,nt provide a link would that have been another lie, sadly Martin you still at your age believe the shite you are fed without question

Given suspicions about their cheating first arose in 2014 that perhaps is not quite the revelation you think it is.

[Tim Lewis]

Interesting programme on the Diesel engine on BBC4 last night:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06csy8c

 

Tim

 

Edited September 24, 2015 by Tim Lewis

[Dave_P]

 

 

can you imagine the outcry if all of a sudden a 6 year old slow Fiesta cost more to tax than the latest hot version?

Never mind the potential for Ford et al to be dragged thru the courts on a mis selling charge!

Sorry to disapoint you, but that happens now. VED isn't charged more because a car is 'new' or 'hot'. A crappy old, slow, high emmissions car will have a higher VED than a new, hot, low emmissions car.

[Mike Todd]

(snip)

However it seems at least 1 European manufacturer has figuratively committed hari-kari on their diesels........maybe it is the beginning of the end.

 

If the impact on VW is that great then it is not just their diesel vehicles that will disappear. Given that 50% of car sales in UK are diesel, the impact will be so large that it is likely that something else will give first.

 

 

However, most, if not all, improvements in established technology come about through imposed regulation. Market leaders have no interest in making improvements unless forced to do so, either by competition or by regulation. Competition only works when the customer can see directly the benefit.

[Dave_P]

try an old jag tax exempt and a £150 insurance, they have just moved the tax exemption status of classic cars from 25 to 40 years old for this very reason so it takes another mode of transport off the road, sadly old car drivers are being pushed further off the road

Sorry, no. They changed the tax exempt status of 25 year old cars back in the late 90s. Only cars which were already tax exempt (pre-1973) remained so. No cars from 1973 onwards were ever to become tax exempt. Then, quite recently a new tax exempt catergory for 40 year old vehicles was introduced. So in recent years, older cars are being encouraged again. This is further underlined by the MOT exempt category which has now been introduced.

[gazza]

Sorry to disapoint you, but that happens now. VED isn't charged more because a car is 'new' or 'hot'. A crappy old, slow, high emmissions car will have a higher VED than a new, hot, low emmissions car.

You miss the point totally, currently many small diesels attract low VED due to the Manufacturers declared CO2 emissions.

If the rates change (punitively and retrospectively) due to the manufacturer telling porkies about the true emissions of their vehicle the owner can hardly be expected to shoulder that cost can they.

 

Having had a vehicle of one sort or another for 20 years I know just fine how the VED system works

 

Just for a bit of clarity,

 

the 2009 1.6 diesel is declared 110g/km ved band b

 

The 2014 1.6 ST is declared 138g/km ved band e.

 

So no, the new ST is not 'greener' than the old diesel by Fords figures.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited September 24, 2015 by gazza

[GreyLady]

I am not worried about the Diesel Emmision changes one bit,

 

Gonna get me one of them Volkswagon Microchips what kids the Emission Testers.

 

 

job sorted.

Edited September 24, 2015 by grumpy146

[gazza]

Just in case CC is still confused about the rate of VED his transit will attract here is a handy table from our lovely gov.UK website

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001

 

 

Note there is not a column marked CraftyCrapers special sky high old van rate

[Henhouse]

 

 

One thing puzzles me about this diesel v. petrol debate. It is stated that a diesel engine excretes more of certain pollutants than a petrol engine. BUT a diesel-powered vehicle burns so much less fuel. For example our last car, petrol-driven, averaged 34 mpg. Our current one, same make, same size of engine, averages 49 mpg because it's a diesel. So, per mile travelled, it's surely going to blow fewer nasties into the atmosphere. is there a flaw in this way of thinking?

 

A very valid, and often overlooked point. As is the amount of energy consumed, and pollution created every time a new vehicle is built.

 

I run a 23 year old Land Rover. I have to for work, and pulling a trailer both on and of road nothing will match it's capability and durability. It is relatively economical averaging 28mpg, and with regular maintenance has easily passed the relevant emissions test every year.

[Theo]

Surely not its all about the future of the planet innit

 

My personal view is that vehicles which are more expensive to run are a Good Thing because it helps to make people think about whether they actually need to be using a vehicle for that activity in the first place

 

How far was the supermarket? Can you walk there

I have given you a greenie to indicate my concurrence with this point of view.

 

N

[craftycarper]

Well I'll offer you a bet then. You said road tax on all diesels over 2 litres will be £500 within a year. So I'll bet you a tenner (loser to pay to a charity of choice) that this won't happen.

deal, I will honour that one Martin, and if we are still both here next September the winner can choose the charity,

[MEPitt]

and if we are still both here next September the winner can choose the charity,

 

Bit morbid innit?

[craftycarper]

You really are an obnoxious plonker aren't you?

Where have I insulted anyone for not buying a new car?

You could start an argument in a bloody phone box.

. More non insults, you have even used the phone box one that I payed on Martin a week ago

[Athy]

. More non insults, you have even used the phone box one that I played on Martin a week ago

Awfully discriminatory too, as many people under the age of 30 will not know what a "phone box" is, because they make all their calls on those funny little mobile things.

[craftycarper]

Just in case CC is still confused about the rate of VED his transit will attract here is a handy table from our lovely gov.UK website

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001

Note there is not a column marked CraftyCrapers special sky high old van rate

I know more believe the government than your ill informed self, can't remember them telling everyone there big 4x4 was going to cost them £450 a year 12 months in advance and as that's a current price list it has very little bearing on the future, like I have said a lot of times I don't really care if I have to sell all my vans for peanuts it would have absolutely know impact on me whatsoever as an example, my transit tipper cost a grand four years ago, it's earned me an extra 3 to 4 grand a year in scrap metal collection so I will be out of pocket by about minus 12 grand including all running and maintenance cost, were as your little boys racer lost roughly 40 percent of its value after a year, so as they say a fool and his money, equally my tax exempt landie is about to be fitted with a tipper body so I will just carry on as before the common thing on this thread is that all the new diesel car owners are trying to convince themselves that the nasty man is lying, were as he ain't and he don't care if you believe him or not,

Bit morbid innit?

Bit morbid innit?

I,m a realist mate non of us are here for ever, a mate of mine dropped dead in that lightning storm a few weeks back, and I'm here for a good time and not a long time, would,nt want Martin calling me names for welching

[John V]

Anybody got a Stanley steamer going cheap ?

[craftycarper]

Awfully discriminatory too, as many people under the age of 30 will not know what a "phone box" is, because they make all their calls on those funny little mobile things.

plus most phone boxes are now full of books and as an illiterate type probably the last place you would find me you have my first smiley another new skill to add to my cv? ? ? Edited September 24, 2015 by craftycarper