Very confused over CC rules

[David Schweizer]

The major problem we have in mooring in remote areas is lack of depth and overgrown vegetation it is rarely other boats.

 

Yes, having a deep boat ourselves that is an issue, which is why we usually look for piling as it has usually been dredged and then kept clear by boats regularly coming and going.

[larkshall]

Has anyone used the "GPS Log Lite" app for iphone? I'm just about to test it out for myself. There's a website called geospike.com which will sync with your phone and obviously you can add photos..

 

So if i were to add a photo of my (future!) boat - would it be tagged with gps? Would that constitute proper "evidence" for CRT? Great if it would as it's free!

Keep an eye on the amount of phone memory been used

[David Schweizer]

Sounds like the the same sample rate as CRT use in enforcement to me...

 

I am not sure what that comment is supposed to mean, but if you are suggesting that observations made at fortnightly intervals does not convey an accurate impression. I shall be passing through twice withio a few days of each other in a weeks time, I will let you know if the situation is better/the same/worse.

Edited August 21, 2015 by David Schweizer

[bassplayer]

Just wondering now whether all this enforcement is down to a handful of boaters who expect to moor up next to a pub everytime they pop out.

[valrene9600]

Frequently. Our mooring is at Napton Junction, how often do you pass through?

 

 

 

Yes I agree, and there is usually plenty of space, but when we passed through a few weeks ago, the only place with any space was Woolfhampcote.

Utter rubbish. Are you saying that over that distance there was no space. Of course if you were looking for a 1 mile length to yourself you might be right but for normal mooring you my friend are talking crap.

[jenlyn]

Just wondering now whether all this enforcement is down to a handful of boaters who expect to moor up next to a pub everytime they pop out.

Or a road bridge.

[Delta9]

 

Frequently. Our mooring is at Napton Junction, how often do you pass through?

 

 

Yes I agree, and there is usually plenty of space, but when we passed through a few weeks ago, the only place with any space was Woolfhampcote.

Complete and utter bullshit. I pass by parts of that route daily and there are always plenty of places to moor.

[lampini]

Has anyone used the "GPS Log Lite" app for iphone? I'm just about to test it out for myself. There's a website called geospike.com which will sync with your phone and obviously you can add photos..

 

So if i were to add a photo of my (future!) boat - would it be tagged with gps? Would that constitute proper "evidence" for CRT? Great if it would as it's free!

 

Scratch that - it's rubbish - only lets you see the last 5 tagged places... then you need to pay - boo!

 

Keep an eye on the amount of phone memory been used

 

And this ^, back to FaceBurk then....

Edited August 21, 2015 by lampini

[abraxus]

Isn't that a bit like the police saying "We have no evidence against you so you will have to prove your innocence"?

Not really, it's entirely different.

 

It's more akin to a barman saying that I have no evidence that you're 18, so please can you supply some.

 

CRT aren't deciding whether to imprison someone, they're providing a service, and so are entitled to seek confirmation that a boater is eligible for that service under the terms and conditions.

 

It's no different to someone having to provide ongoing evidence that they're eligible for sickness benefits. The fact that CRT, and benefits offices, might check up on that eligibility from time to time, doesn't mean that the entire burden of proof has shifted to them, it's just an additional means of monitoring compliance.

[Delta9]

For android phones:

 

1) Enable developer options in settings.

 

2) Tap on 'software information' and hit 'build number 7 times to unlock it

 

3) Go to 'settings' and check the box 'allow mock locations'

 

4) Install one of the many free location spoofing aps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=fake%20GPS&c=apps

 

5) plot route or location in spoofing ap

 

6) Lie in bed drinking gin while your GPS ap tracks your cruise.

 

7) realise that GPS logs are easy to fake without attaching anything to a cycle or even leaving your bed and this whole discussion is pointless.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Delta9

[David Schweizer]

Utter rubbish. Are you saying that over that distance there was no space. Of course if you were looking for a 1 mile length to yourself you might be right but for normal mooring you my friend are talking crap.

 

Complete and utter bullshit. I pass by parts of that route daily and there are always plenty of places to moor.

 

I find it somewhat bemusing that when one (or two in this instance) individual's opinion does not concur with another individual's observations, they find it neccessary to respond offensively.

[Paul C]

 

 

I find it somewhat bemusing that when one (or two in this instance) individual's opinion does not concur with another individual's observations, they find it neccessary to respond offensively.

 

Its normally a sign that their argument is weak.

[jenlyn]

 

 

I find it somewhat bemusing that when one (or two in this instance) individual's opinion does not concur with another individual's observations, they find it neccessary to respond offensively.

I don't find it remotely amusing that someone can attempt to mislead so dishonestly, which is what I consider you did.

Given that one poster has stated he uses the route often on a daily basis, and counters your story, I think you should apologise to the forum.

 

Its normally a sign that their argument is weak.

When did you actually cruise the section in question please?

[koukouvagia]

I don't find it remotely amusing that someone can attempt to mislead so dishonestly, which is what I consider you did.

Given that one poster has stated he uses the route often on a daily basis, and counters your story, I think you should apologise to the forum.

When did you actually cruise the section in question please?

David said "bemusing" not "amusing".

[jenlyn]

David said "bemusing" not "amusing".

And I did not find his reply amusing. So your point?

[Paul C]

Just saying....that's all.

[jenlyn]

Just saying....that's all.

Yes......

[valrene9600]

I find it somewhat bemusing that when one (or two in this instance) individual's opinion does not concur with another individual's observations, they find it neccessary to respond offensively.

I have travelled along there 4 times over the past 5 weeks. I have moored in that section at differing places for 8 nights. Plenty of space at every mooring.

Sorry but I can only without being rude say you are exaggerating the point you were making.

Bad information likes of what you are saying can be misleading to others intending to plan a cruise.

Not interested in anymore discussion on this.

[mayalld]

I don't find it remotely amusing that someone can attempt to mislead so dishonestly, which is what I consider you did.

Given that one poster has stated he uses the route often on a daily basis, and counters your story, I think you should apologise to the forum.

 

When did you actually cruise the section in question please?

Did you actually read what David wrote?

 

It appears to me that you and others are trying to shout him down on the assumption that he wrote something that he didn't.

[jenlyn]

Did you actually read what David wrote?

 

Obviously you have not.

[NilesMI]

I have seen on this thread, and others relating to boats without a home mooring that CRT are justified in demanding that a boater provides information to them to show that they are complying with the terms of their licence, because "it is for the boater to satisy the board..."

 

But, the only references I can find where someone is required to satisfy the board (trust) is in relation to an applicant for a licence. e.g. 1995 British Waterways Act s.17 (3) c) ii "the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board..."

 

Please! Can anyone of those who constantly repeat this mantra that "it is for the boater to safisfy the board", please point to anything, anywhere, which says that once a licence is issued it is for the licencee to satisfy the board (trust) that they are complying with the terms of their licence.

 

Many thanks.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NilesMI

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

The problem is the definition "less popular", less popular with whom? Hirers,probably, and people wanting to stop near a town or pub. However, for many, isolated rural places are very poular with those who enjoy the open countryside. At one time it was comparatively easy to find an overnight mooring in such locations, but this is becomeing increasingly more difficult,as they become more routinely occupied by long term moorers,

 

For example, five years ago it was possible to find a an overnight mooring at a many open country locations between Napton Junction and Braunston, but nowadays the number of places have been limited to just one, which is beyond reasonable walking distance from a road bridge. Ironicly it is now much easier to get a space on the 14 day moorings in Braunston (if that is what you want!!)

Been a while since I have done that stretch. How many road bridges are there? And how far do you have to walk not to be near a road bridge? Edited August 21, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[Bod]

I have seen on this thread, and others relating to boats without a home mooring that CRT are justified in demanding that a boater provides information to them to show that they are complying with the terms of their licence, because "it is for the boater to satisy the board..."

 

But, the only references I can find where someone is required to satisfy the board (trust) is in relation to an applicant for a licence. e.g. 1995 British Waterways Act s.17 (3) c) ii "the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board..."

 

Please! Can anyone of those who constantly repeat this mantra that "it is for the boater to safisfy the board", please point to anything, anywhere, which says that once a licence is issued it is for the licencee to satisfy the board (trust) that they are complying with the terms of their licence.

 

Many thanks.

I suppose the "satisfaction" is in regard of the next licence.

 

Bod

[NigelMoore]

Please! Can anyone of those who constantly repeat this mantra that "it is for the boater to safisfy the board", please point to anything, anywhere, which says that once a licence is issued it is for the licencee to satisfy the board (trust) that they are complying with the terms of their licence.

 

There is nothing quite like that, anywhere.

 

However: IF it is a demonstrable FACT that a boat issued a licence in reliance on the Board being satisfied that it will be used bona fide for navigation in accordance with (3)( c )(ii) has NOT been so used, then “the Board may give notice requiring the holder of the relevant consent to remedy the default within such time as may be reasonable (not being less than 28 days)." s.17(4)( c )(ii).

 

The following subsection provides that failure to comply with any such notice will result in the relevant consent determining on expiry of the Notice period.

 

So you could challenge them over the prior facts on receipt of the Notice, which could found an action disputing the Notice in the first place, but from the date of a valid Notice, you would have to satisfy the Board that you were indeed complying with the (3)( c )(ii) requirement during that minimum 28 day period.

[NilesMI]

Nigel, thanks.

Of course I understand that should CRT, through their own monitoring, be able to see that the boat has not been used in accordance with the licence T&C during it's current licence, the licencee may not be granted a licence when they apply for a renewal.

 

But that was not my question.

 

My question was actually about whether the licencee must actively satisfy the trust during the period of their licence (as is routinely claimed) by providing records, logs, photos, electronic tracking data or whatever else CRT deems necessary, pertaining to the licencee's use of the boat.

 

And if so, where that is specified in CRT's licence terms and conditions, rules, regulations or Acts of Parliament.