Very confused over CC rules

[bassplayer]

Thanks Mike.

 

During the period of a licence, the burden is on CRT to show that the boater has failed to CC

When a licence is renewed, the burden is on the boater to satisfy CRT that they will CC.

In the example on the other thread, CRT aren't threatening to revoke a licence. They are saying that at the point of renewal, they will need to be satisfied.

 

 

Just wondering if anyone knows whether there is any distinction between applying for a new licence or just having it renewed regarding the law and potential burdens? Is renewal regarded the same as the initial application for a licence?

[Martin Megson]

i must say that as a CC'er I have had no problems with CRT. When on their waters I move regularly as I get bored if I stay in one place more than a few days. I've been off CRT waters since April and have not been advised that I've not been sighted.

[jenlyn]

i must say that as a CC'er I have had no problems with CRT. When on their waters I move regularly as I get bored if I stay in one place more than a few days. I've been off CRT waters since April and have not been advised that I've not been sighted.

In all seriousnes, you will quite possibly be asked to provide the info when you come to renew.

[MtB]

In all seriousnes, you will quite possibly be asked to provide the info when you come to renew.

 

And in all seriousness, just telling them the info will lead to an easy life.

[David Schweizer]

i must say that as a CC'er I have had no problems with CRT. When on their waters I move regularly as I get bored if I stay in one place more than a few days. I've been off CRT waters since April and have not been advised that I've not been sighted.

 

Slightly but does anyone know what has happened to the Association of Continuous Cruisers? It appears to have imploded.

[Martin Megson]

 

And in all seriousness, just telling them the info will lead to an easy life.

I agree Mike. I find with CRT, as with many organisations, speaking to them BEFORE you have a problem is all that is required. I got stuck on the 24hr moorings at Oxford a couple of winters ago when the Thames went into flood. Spoke to the local enforcement officer who fully understood, I gave her my mobile no and asked her to let me know if she needed me to move. Stayed there for 10 days and moved on when the Thames was calmer. No problem.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I have seen on this thread, and others relating to boats without a home mooring that CRT are justified in demanding that a boater provides information to them to show that they are complying with the terms of their licence, because "it is for the boater to satisy the board..."

 

But, the only references I can find where someone is required to satisfy the board (trust) is in relation to an applicant for a licence. e.g. 1995 British Waterways Act s.17 (3) c) ii "the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board..."

 

Please! Can anyone of those who constantly repeat this mantra that "it is for the boater to safisfy the board", please point to anything, anywhere, which says that once a licence is issued it is for the licencee to satisfy the board (trust) that they are complying with the terms of their licence.

 

Many thanks.

You need to read just a bit further on from 1995 British Waterways Act s.17 (3) c) ii and, in particular, 4 c) ii -

 

 

(in the case of a vessel in respect of which a relevant consent is issued pursuant to subsection (3) © (ii) above) the vessel has not in fact been used bona fide for navigation in accordance with the said subsection (3) © (ii);

 

the Board may give notice requiring the holder of the relevant consent to remedy the default within such time as may be reasonable (not being less than 28 days).

 

As you will see from the above the wording changes to -

 

'the vessel has not in fact been used bona fide for navigation'

 

from

 

'the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation'

 

 

 

 

 

[cotswoldsman]

 

Slightly but does anyone know what has happened to the Association of Continuous Cruisers? It appears to have imploded.

Has it still seems very busy to me are you a member did not realise you were a ccer

[Tony Dunkley]

I agree Mike. I find with CRT, as with many organisations, speaking to them BEFORE you have a problem is all that is required. I got stuck on the 24hr moorings at Oxford a couple of winters ago when the Thames went into flood. Spoke to the local enforcement officer who fully understood, I gave her my mobile no and asked her to let me know if she needed me to move. Stayed there for 10 days and moved on when the Thames was calmer. No problem.

 

There is a problem, and it's a very simple one, it's the fact that you felt the need to seek approval for staying tied up when a river's in flood.

If the so-called management of C&RT had anything like a conscience they would be thoroughly ashamed that their reputation makes boaters feel that it's necessary to ask their permission to not risk drowning themselves.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[David Schweizer]

Has it still seems very busy to me are you a member did not realise you were a ccer

 

I think you know very well that I have a home mooring, but that has nothing to do with enquiring about the existence of ACC. Equally, I am not an angler or cyclist, but that does not preclued me being interested in organizations that represent them. I tried to find them on the internet recently and their site has been discontinued. If one did wish to join, but there is nothing on the web, how does one find joining details?

[abraxus]

Just wondering if anyone knows whether there is any distinction between applying for a new licence or just having it renewed regarding the law and potential burdens? Is renewal regarded the same as the initial application for a licence?

From what I can see there's no legal distinction, although I guess there are practical ones.

 

With a new licence (assuming we're talking CC) CRT have to pretty much take you at your word with regards to whether you'll comply, and so the bar for satisfying the board is quite low.

 

However, with a renewal, you have a cruising history, which can be used towards raising the bar and providing more quantifiable satisfaction as, if a boater made a previous commitment to comply, whether he honoured that commitment or not, goes some way to indicating whether he may or may not honour a future one.

Edited August 22, 2015 by abraxus

[cotswoldsman]

 

I think you know very well that I have a home mooring, but that has nothing to do with enquiring about the existence of ACC. Equally, I am not an angler or cyclist, but that does not preclued me being interested in organizations that represent them. I tried to find them on the internet recently and their site has been discontinued. If one did wish to join, but there is nothing on the web, how does one find joining details?

It is all done via Facebook so when you give up your home mooring feel free to join I guess last time I looked over 900 people on the Facebook page. As I now have a home mooring I am not very active myself but they certainly made hefty contribution to recent appeal for funds to get Wingfield transcript

[jenlyn]

From what I can see there's no legal distinction, although I guess there are practical ones.

 

With a new licence (assuming we're talking CC) CRT have to pretty much take you at your word with regards to whether you'll comply, and so the bar for satisfying the board is quite low.

 

However, with a renewal, you have a cruising history, which can be used towards raising the bar and providing more quantifiable satisfaction as, if a boater made a previous commitment to comply, whether he honoured that commitment or not, goes some way to indicating whether he may or may not honour a future one.

If Crt continue to ignore the maintenance and well being of the system, nobody will be going far at all, let alone continuously cruising.

[Martin Megson]

 

There is a problem, and it's a very simple one, it's the fact that you felt the need to seek approval for staying tied up when a river's in flood.

If the so-called management of C&RT had anything like a conscience they would be thoroughly ashamed that anyone should feel that it's necessary to ask their permission to not risk drowning themselves.

 

Please don't tell me what I felt.

I did not feel the need to seek their approval, it was simply a matter of common courtesy on my part to inform CRT that I needed to overstay due to the river conditions. Nothing would have made me venture onto the Thames on red boards thus invalidating my insurance. HoweverI could have safely headed back up the Oxford canal to comply with my licence but this was not the direction I wished to travel.

 

I try to avoid conflict in my retirement, I had enough in my working life, and I'm sure that those of us who work with CRT enjoy an easier life than those who seem to be in a state of constant conflict.

[cotswoldsman]

 

Please don't tell me what I felt.

I did not feel the need to seek their approval, it was simply a matter of common courtesy on my part to inform CRT that I needed to overstay due to the river conditions. Nothing would have made me venture onto the Thames on red boards thus invalidating my insurance. HoweverI could have safely headed back up the Oxford canal to comply with my licence but this was not the direction I wished to travel.

 

I try to avoid conflict in my retirement, I had enough in my working life, and I'm sure that those of us who work with CRT enjoy an easier life than those who seem to be in a state of constant conflict.

That's fine but just for future reference if you find yourself in the same situation again the law does make provision so you do not need to turn round

[Martin Megson]

That's fine but just for future reference if you find yourself in the same situation again the law does make provision so you do not need to turn round

Thanks for that. Good to know the law is taking a common sense approach in this area.

[cotswoldsman]

Thanks for that. Good to know the law is taking a common sense approach in this area.

I was stuck in Gloucester once for nearly 2 months and once in Leeds for 1 month. Just so you know when you leave has nothing to do with the water markers but when YOU feel safe to navigate

[David Schweizer]

It is all done via Facebook so when you give up your home mooring feel free to join I guess last time I looked over 900 people on the Facebook page. As I now have a home mooring I am not very active myself but they certainly made hefty contribution to recent appeal for funds to get Wingfield transcript

 

So if you are not on Facebook (which I am not) you are stuffed, but that still doesn;t answer how you find out about the ACC in the first place. If you google "continuous cruiser" there are plenty of hits about the ACC, but nothing telling you how to contact them, I just think that is a very odd way of promoting an organization.

[cotswoldsman]

 

So if you are not on Facebook (which I am not) you are stuffed, but that still doesn;t answer how you find out about the ACC in the first place. If you google "continuous cruiser" there are plenty of hits about the ACC, but nothing telling you how to contact them, I just think that is a very odd way of promoting an organization.

Seems to work for them

Seems you fail on 2 counts

1. Not a ccer

2. Not on Facebook

 

I am sure they will survive without you being able to contact them

Anyway you seem to be diverting what is an interesting discussion

[David Schweizer]

Seems to work for them

Seems you fail on 2 counts

1. Not a ccer

2. Not on Facebook

 

I am sure they will survive without you being able to contact them

Anyway you seem to be diverting what is an interesting discussion

 

Exacerbated by your reluctance to answer a simple question.

 

Are you suggesting that only a ccer could find it on Facebook, How does that work then ?

Edited August 22, 2015 by David Schweizer

[cotswoldsman]

 

Exacerbated by your reluctance to answer a simple question.

I will leave you to it

[jenlyn]

 

Exacerbated by your reluctance to answer a simple question.

 

Given some of the posts you have made over the past couple of days, I find it quite admirable that he took the time to answer you at all.

 

The last few posts you have made in this thread does nothing other than to bolster my belief, that I don't need to give you the time of day.

 

Goodnight.

[TheBiscuits]

 

I think you know very well that I have a home mooring, but that has nothing to do with enquiring about the existence of ACC. Equally, I am not an angler or cyclist, but that does not preclued me being interested in organizations that represent them. I tried to find them on the internet recently and their site has been discontinued. If one did wish to join, but there is nothing on the web, how does one find joining details?

 

That won't stop jenlyn and costwoldman though David.

 

They both insist I am *not* a CC licence holder - which is a surprise to both myself and CRTs licence team.

 

At least you are only being excluded because you don't use Facebook.

[David Schweizer]

 

That won't stop jenlyn and costwoldman though David.

 

They both insist I am *not* a CC licence holder - which is a surprise to both myself and CRTs licence team.

 

At least you are only being excluded because you don't use Facebook.

 

The bemusinging aspect to all this is any assumption that I might want to join.

Edited August 22, 2015 by David Schweizer

[TheBiscuits]

 

The bemusinging aspect to all this is any assumption that I might want to join.

 

Ah but then the only reason they think you can have for wanting to know about their top secret club is to spy on them for the IWA.

 

I think we used to do similar at primary school.