CRT is re developing its website - see the Beta version.

[George94]

Taking "you" as meaning the site crew in general, and not GoodGurl, I wanted to respond to this.

 

I don't think the forum encourages moaning, and we wouldn't want to promote any particular point of view. People are free to post (within the forum rules) their opinion on anything, but of course that can be challenged and they may well have to defend it.

 

It might be that other people are put off from replying, making the forum as a whole seem more negative than positive, but we don't have and don't want editorial control over the content like narrowboat world, for example; if the majority of forum users think of CRT in a negative light, then posts will reflect this.

 

But I don't think it's quite that bad- if you look at the total number of users, the unregistered lurkers, compared to the number of people posting, it is a small number of people choosing to share their experiences, and the conclusions they have drawn from it.

 

I happen to agree with you that CRT need to be given more of a chance- and, if nothing else, the move to charity status has saved them from the massive cuts the EA under DEFRA- but people are free, within the rules, to post whatever content and point of view they like.

 

Thank you for a fair and reasoned response. Goodgurl didn't seem to realise that my question to Mr Hogg was rhetorical. Of course I know you don't need to own a boat to post here.

 

I also know that the site team doesn't have a huge amount of scope to guide discussion that it might think is moving in the wrong direction, but one way is not to be seen to be offering succour to those who are going in a direction that doesn't seem constructive.

 

I agree that the moaners constitute a small proportion of users, but the fact is that a small number of users can account for an awful lot of posts.

 

Anyway, thanks again. The freedom of expression allowed on this forum is one of its strengths.

[jenlyn]

It isn't actually relevant

 

He has long been on their mailing list and that is exactly the kind of person you send beta invites to.

 

 

 

I don't love all things CRT (I actually have a formal complaint in progress at present)

 

In any case, this is nothing to do with it being CRT and everything to do with plain bad manners.

Rather like the manners shown to Laurence by Mr Parry?

I think it's a case of learn to practice before preaching.

[George94]

Rather like the manners shown to Laurence by Mr Parry?

I think it's a case of learn to practice before preaching.

 

Hang on, it isn't Mr P accusing Mr H of bad manners, it's Mr M.

 

I am sure that Mr H is a fine member of the community, but at the moment his bitterness is clouding his judgement. He needs to step back and do something else for a while until he recovers his equanimity.

[TheBiscuits]

 

Hang on, it isn't Mr P accusing Mr H of bad manners, it's Mr M.

And Mr J stirring.

[jenlyn]

 

Hang on, it isn't Mr P accusing Mr H of bad manners, it's Mr M.

 

I am sure that Mr H is a fine member of the community, but at the moment his bitterness is clouding his judgement. He needs to step back and do something else for a while until he recovers his equanimity.

Laurence is reacting with the only armour he has at his disposal. I can relate to that, knowing full well how he feels.

Sometimes, just sometimes, the trust can infuriate you with their total ignorance, and an arrogant attutude.

I don't really see this whole issue as a massive breach of anything, not in the bigger picture.

In fact, I find daves post quite pathetic in its attempt to belittle Laurence.

[George94]

Laurence is reacting with the only armour he has at his disposal. I can relate to that, knowing full well how he feels.

Sometimes, just sometimes, the trust can infuriate you with their total ignorance, and an arrogant attutude.

I don't really see this whole issue as a massive breach of anything, not in the bigger picture.

In fact, I find daves post quite pathetic in its attempt to belittle Laurence.

 

Actually, we all have silence in our arsenal. Sadly, few of us know how to use it.

 

And you're right, it's not a massive breach, but it was still ill-mannered.

 

Time to move on, methinks.

[Laurence Hogg]

It isn't actually relevant

 

He has long been on their mailing list and that is exactly the kind of person you send beta invites to.

 

Whether he asked for the password or not, it is very poor manners to share it.

 

I don't love all things CRT (I actually have a formal complaint in progress at present)

 

In any case, this is nothing to do with it being CRT and everything to do with plain bad manners.

 

The "bad manners are all yours sunshine"

 

Oh yes am I on "the mailing list"? Mr Mayall and how do you know this? Have "Inside info" you are not "sharing"?

 

I am NOT on their mailing list as I openly oppose the constitution of CRT and think its a failure, designed to be so from day one.

So where is your "information" from?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[George94]

Come, come, Laurence, if you are not on their list, why did you get an email?

 

Perhaps this is what happened - "Right, we've emailed all the people we know, but we haven't emailed Mr Hogg. Millicent, be a dear and find out if he has an email address. We really do need to hear his views. His archive is second to none."

 

Now I am not saying that scenario is unlikely, but I do feel that it is slightly more likely that they did have you on an email list somewhere, and just sent off an email, along with a few hundred others.

 

But one thing's for sure. They are unlikely to do so again.

[StephenA]

Come, come, Laurence, if you are not on their list, why did you get an email?

 

Perhaps this is what happened - "Right, we've emailed all the people we know, but we haven't emailed Mr Hogg. Millicent, be a dear and find out if he has an email address. We really do need to hear his views. His archive is second to none."

 

Now I am not saying that scenario is unlikely, but I do feel that it is slightly more likely that they did have you on an email list somewhere, and just sent off an email, along with a few hundred others.

 

But one thing's for sure. They are unlikely to do so again.

 

 

I too find it highly unlikely that CRT would pick email addresses at random and send them a link to a restricted beta of a web site.

I haven't been invited to send feedback to the site so I can't really respond.

Two things do come to mind though. If C&RT got a licence from Ordnance Survey they could put maps like the one in the Nicholson guides to show boaters and other users not just the canal but adjacent interlinking footpaths.

Another link could be the stoppages, marinas, services, planned maintenance, winter moorings etc onto the maps in addition to the existing text descriptions.

The pull down menus on a phone are a bit fiddly to navigate.

I imagine the Trust may already pay an OS mapping licence for their internal plans.

 

O/S map licences aren't that cheap.

 

They'd be much better off using Open Street map .

[mayalld]

 

The "bad manners are all yours sunshine"

 

Oh yes am I on "the mailing list"? Mr Mayall and how do you know this? Have "Inside info" you are not "sharing"?

 

I am NOT on their mailing list as I openly oppose the constitution of CRT and think its a failure, designed to be so from day one.

So where is your "information" from?

 

Laurence,

 

for some considerable period of time, you have teken it upon yourself to post BW/CRT press releases.

 

The impression that has been given is that those press releases were sent to you. Is that not the case?

 

It is, in any case not enormously relevant. If you are sent a user name and password to enable you to try something out, it is self-evident that it is not intended that everybody should try it out, and that the password should not immediately be shared far and wide.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Laurence,

 

for some considerable period of time, you have teken it upon yourself to post BW/CRT press releases.

 

The impression that has been given is that those press releases were sent to you. Is that not the case?

 

It is, in any case not enormously relevant. If you are sent a user name and password to enable you to try something out, it is self-evident that it is not intended that everybody should try it out, and that the password should not immediately be shared far and wide.

Perhaps CaRT emailed Laurence in the expectation that he would post on here following poor take up of a general invitation a couple of weeks back.

[cotswoldsman]

Perhaps CaRT emailed Laurence in the expectation that he would post on here following poor take up of a general invitation a couple of weeks back.

I would have though the more feedback the better.

[Leo No2]

The e-mail started as follows:

 

I am getting in touch because have previously been involved in research and testing as part of the work on the new Canal & River Trust website, and indicated that you would be happy to be contacted again.

 

There is a word missing between 'because' and 'have' which I took to be 'you'; the last part of the sentence does say 'you' so my take on the e-mail, having spent 35 years in an IT corporate environment, was that, having given some feedback in the past, I was individually being asked, along with others no known to me, to take a look and provide my thoughts on their new website i.e. It was not for 'public' consumption.

 

I too have posted some CRT Press releases because I receive them but I always read them and do my best to understand if they are for general release (which they invariably are) or if they were directed at a small group, as I believe was the case with the beta viewing of the website changes.

 

That may be an out-of-date view in the modern world but one to which I adhere unless I am convinced otherwise.

[Rob-M]

I received the email as I offered my services to test the new web site following a request in the recent boaters update. Given the email contained a username and password, whilst looking to be generic, I would not have shared it as generally when involved in beta testing it is normal practice to have closed user groups performing testing before opening up to a complete public beta.

[cotswoldsman]

Does all this mean the world is going to end soon?

[mayalld]

Laurence is reacting with the only armour he has at his disposal. I can relate to that, knowing full well how he feels.

Sometimes, just sometimes, the trust can infuriate you with their total ignorance, and an arrogant attutude.

I don't really see this whole issue as a massive breach of anything, not in the bigger picture.

In fact, I find daves post quite pathetic in its attempt to belittle Laurence.

 

Clearly, Laurence feels agrieved with CRT.

 

Equally clearly he feels that he is justified in doing so.

 

It may well be that they have treated him badly. It may, on the other hand, be that what Laurence could bring to the table wasn't something that was actually useful to CRT, and that Laurence needed to recognise this. We have only heard his side of the story here.

 

Regardless of whether CRT have behaved badly, it doesn't excuse Laurence behaving badly. "He started it" does him no credit whatsoever.

 

I haven't tried to belittle Laurence at all. I have simply offered my view that he was wrong to do what he did.

Edited August 17, 2015 by FadeToScarlet

[cotswoldsman]

yup looks like the world is going to end

[Lady Muck]

I don't think the OP knows much about how web design works.

It's a job that is never done, it's like painting the Forth Bridge. Get to the end and then suddenly a new platform gets invented/the platform that you based your website on is upgraded/a new browser comes out/ someone invents the new Ipad.

Oh and then Google changes it's algorithms so you have to rewrite the entire site as the searches stop coming up and you get complaints.

I live with a grumpy boatman who is alao a web designer, I have to listen to all of the whinging when Drupal releases a new version and all thewebsites he manage have to be redone and then the old plug ins don't work etc etc..

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lady Muck

[frangar]

Let's face it...some on this thread believe CRT can do nothing right and will take any chance they get to have a dig....quite sad really.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[cotswoldsman]

Let's face it...some on this thread believe CRT can do nothing right and will take any chance they get to have a dig....quite sad really.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

I don't see that don't think anyone has said anything bad about the new site I actually think it looks ok but I am no expert. Some of simply fail to see any crime that has been committed

[bassplayer]

I would have though the more feedback the better.

I agree. Whenever we used to develop stuff the more feedback the better. Mind you it is up to CRT to decide that for themselves to be fair.

[bassplayer]

...a bit like how an organisation might only invite parties they see as no threat around the table...

[mayalld]

I agree. Whenever we used to develop stuff the more feedback the better. Mind you it is up to CRT to decide that for themselves to be fair.

 

Too much feedback can be problematic.

Edited August 17, 2015 by FadeToScarlet

[bassplayer]

Too much feedback can be problematic.

 

 

Only if you can't handle it on the occasions you've got it wrong...

[FadeToScarlet]

I've decided to lock this topic, because it's descending into personal insults.