Real-World Use Of Marine Vhf Radio

[nicknorman]

So according to the official line, one is supposed to do things like say the station you are calling, and your own station name, twice. You are supposed to say "over" when you've finished speaking and "out" when you've finished the conversation. This seems a little naff to me when using VHF (less so when on HF, I'll grant you) and we never do this on aeronautical VHF.

 

Anyway we are planning a trip down to Torksey so I bought a cheapo marine handheld. We live within reception distance of Aberdeen harbour which is very busy with commercial boats supplying the oil rigs etc. Aberdeen harbour has a VTS controller chappie. So listening to this professional talking to the professional boat skippers I hear none of that reptitive stuff, no "over" etc. It is much the same as aeronautical radio talk although a little less formal.

 

So my question is, in the real world do people repeat stuff and say "over" etc, or is that just for amateurs? I would prefer not to sound too much like a naff amateur!

[Naughty Cal]

You will find that once you have made initial contact with the station you are speaking too that most will leave out the formailities.

[Scholar Gypsy]

The real world is much as you suggest. On the Thames tideway a typical conversation might be:

 

"London VTS, Narrow Boat Scholar Gypsy"

"Scholar Gypsy, VTS"

"Three narrowboats approaching the barrier, outward bound, permission please"

"Scholar Gypsy, take Alpha span"

"Alpha span, thank you".

 

And even more casual eg if two trip boats are having a discussion about how to manoeuvre around each other.

 

The only time I heard stuff get really disciplined in London was around the Jubilee Pageant, when VHF traffic was more or less continuous, people were told to keep messages short, and everyone did follow the proper format - all of that sensible to avoid confusion about who is talking to who -- which is after all what the "rules" are for.

[PaulG]

So according to the official line, one is supposed to do things like say the station you are calling, and your own station name, twice. You are supposed to say "over" when you've finished speaking and "out" when you've finished the conversation. This seems a little naff to me when using VHF (less so when on HF, I'll grant you) and we never do this on aeronautical VHF.

 

Anyway we are planning a trip down to Torksey so I bought a cheapo marine handheld. We live within reception distance of Aberdeen harbour which is very busy with commercial boats supplying the oil rigs etc. Aberdeen harbour has a VTS controller chappie. So listening to this professional talking to the professional boat skippers I hear none of that reptitive stuff, no "over" etc. It is much the same as aeronautical radio talk although a little less formal.

 

So my question is, in the real world do people repeat stuff and say "over" etc, or is that just for amateurs? I would prefer not to sound too much like a naff amateur!

I do. The station I'm calling doesn't always get my station name the first time, so I repeat it.

The guys in Aberdeen harbour probably talk to each other all the time, so they recognise familiar station names straight away, so no need to repeat.

The "over" bit on a Simplex channel shows that you have finished what you are saying and are awaiting a response (your finger hasn't just slipped of the "transmit" button accidentally!).

The "out" tells the person you are talking to that you have finished the conversation, and they can get on and deal with other traffic. Quite important for harbourmasters, lock keepers, etc.

 

It's no problem for me to stick with convention. At least it suggests that you may actually have done the course and obtained a VHF licence.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya,

I've got to be honest, I use my VHF a fair bit, and once 'Contact' has been made to whomever, I tend to relax a bit, but For me a lot depends on the Quality of reception and Familiararty while chatting,,I often just DoubleClick the Mike to say 'Have That' and phrases like 'All copied' 'Out' 'Standing by' etc etc But there will be a time for Proper voice procedure, and you can often tell within the first minute or so of conversation.

But yes I initially say my vessels name twice, and use 'Over' a lot.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[bizzard]

As the minicab driver replied, to a radio call from his controller. 'Why d'ya keep callin me 'Roger' when me names Tom.

[homer2911]

I do. The station I'm calling doesn't always get my station name the first time, so I repeat it.

The guys in Aberdeen harbour probably talk to each other all the time, so they recognise familiar station names straight away, so no need to repeat.

The "over" bit on a Simplex channel shows that you have finished what you are saying and are awaiting a response (your finger hasn't just slipped of the "transmit" button accidentally!).

The "out" tells the person you are talking to that you have finished the conversation, and they can get on and deal with other traffic. Quite important for harbourmasters, lock keepers, etc.

 

It's no problem for me to stick with convention. At least it suggests that you may actually have done the course and obtained a VHF licence.

Works for me too, as it did recently on the Tidal Trent, Tidal Ouse and at Google Docks

[nicknorman]

Thanks guys, pretty much what I expected (hoped!)

 

I do. The station I'm calling doesn't always get my station name the first time, so I repeat it.

The guys in Aberdeen harbour probably talk to each other all the time, so they recognise familiar station names straight away, so no need to repeat.

Yes I can see the point of repeating your own station name on first contact, although not the name of the station I am calling ("Torksey lock" etc). A typical conversation on aeronautical might be "Inverness radar, glider golf charlie foxtrot whisky whisky" ... "Glider calling Inverness say again full callsign"... So perhaps it should be de rigeur in aviation to repeat callsign on a free-call!

 

It is "no problem" to do things by the book but slightly embarrassing if it makes you sound like a novice!

Edited June 24, 2015 by nicknorman

[Naughty Cal]

Thanks guys, pretty much what I expected (hoped!)

 

Yes I can see the point of repeating your own station name on first contact, although not the name of the station I am calling ("Torksey lock" etc). A typical conversation on aeronautical might be "Inverness radar, glider golf charlie foxtrot whisky whisky" ... "Glider calling Inverness say again full callsign"... So perhaps it should be de rigeur in aviation to repeat callsign on a free-call!

 

It is "no problem" to do things by the book but slightly embarrassing if it makes you sound like a novice!

A typical call to Torksey for us would be along the lines of:

 

Torksey Lock, Torksey Lock this is Naughty-Cal, Naughty-Cal, over.

 

Naughty-Cal, Torksey.

 

Torksey, Naughty-Cal, We are approaching the lock from upstream/downstream and will be with you in ?? minutes. Can we lock through at your convenience, over.

 

Naughty-Cal, Torksey, Lock will be ready in ?? minutes, Torksey Out.

 

Naughty-Cal, out.

 

The only time we have had to be more formal on the radio was at Goole Docks when he insisted we spell out the boat name phonetically as it wasn't displayed on the bow of the boat

 

If you keep your radio on CH06 on the ditch you will hear some radio comedy gold

[john6767]

On the difference between aeronautical procedure and marine, I was talking about this with a friend who is a private pilot after I did the marine VHF course, and you are right the aeronautical procedure is much more simple, but then you are always talking to air traffic control I think (not sure), and from what I remember for use your call sign at the end in place of over.

 

He was also surprised that I got a licence with my photograph etc for the marine VHF qualification, where as you don't even get that for a private pilots licence, it's just a bit of paper.

 

As to procedure in my limited experience it is more relaxed than the course would teach, but so far I have gone the formal route when making initial contact eg.

 

"Upper Lode Lock this is Firefly over"

 

 

I think for initial contact the use of "this is" gives the guy time to wake up and catch your name when he hears he is being called. When in Saul Junction Marina, I over heard I guy calling up to get the bridge opened go a bit over the top by repeating "Junction Bridge" and his name 3 times. Normally people only use the other station and you own names once or twice at the most.

 

After the initial contact I would expect back

 

"Firefly, Upper Lode" (ie no "this is" and probably no over)

 

and then I would switch to short hand

 

"Upper Lode, Firefly <message> over"

 

On a sign off, I have also used something like

 

"Thank You, Firefly out"

 

rather than

 

"Upper Lode, Firefly Thank You out"

 

But that's just me making it up as I go along.

 

The thing on inland use you are mostly not going to be in an environment where there is a lot of radio traffic, so as long as you are clear it going to work fine.

[nicknorman]

 

He was also surprised that I got a licence with my photograph etc for the marine VHF qualification, where as you don't even get that for a private pilots licence, it's just a bit of paper.

 

It's not even a bit of paper, it's just a paragraph on a bit of paper -para XII below, is all there is

 

Anyway, thanks all, I think I've got the picture now.

Edited June 24, 2015 by nicknorman

[nicknorman]

The only time we have had to be more formal on the radio was at Goole Docks when he insisted we spell out the boat name phonetically as it wasn't displayed on the bow of the boat

Blimey, guess I'll have to practice saying tangoecholimaechomikealphacharliehoteluniformsierra. Bit of a mouthful, should have gone for a shorter name!

 

Edit: to change the autocorrected "mummy" back to "blimey" in case Rachael was worried!

Edited June 24, 2015 by DHutch

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks guys, pretty much what I expected (hoped!)

 

Yes I can see the point of repeating your own station name on first contact, although not the name of the station I am calling ("Torksey lock" etc). A typical conversation on aeronautical might be "Inverness radar, glider golf charlie foxtrot whisky whisky" ... "Glider calling Inverness say again full callsign"... So perhaps it should be de rigeur in aviation to repeat callsign on a free-call!

 

It is "no problem" to do things by the book but slightly embarrassing if it makes you sound like a novice!

I think with the station you are calling there is probably only one station in range who is expecting some one to call them, so will be expecting any traffic to be for them. If there were lots of people listening out then calling their twice name helps, they hear the first shout and think "was that me he was calling" and when you repeat it it confirms it. I would also say "Out" when I had finished the conversation.

[DaveC]

So according to the official line, one is supposed to do things like say the station you are calling, and your own station name, twice. You are supposed to say "over" when you've finished speaking and "out" when you've finished the conversation. This seems a little naff to me when using VHF (less so when on HF, I'll grant you) and we never do this on aeronautical VHF.

 

Anyway we are planning a trip down to Torksey so I bought a cheapo marine handheld. We live within reception distance of Aberdeen harbour which is very busy with commercial boats supplying the oil rigs etc. Aberdeen harbour has a VTS controller chappie. So listening to this professional talking to the professional boat skippers I hear none of that reptitive stuff, no "over" etc. It is much the same as aeronautical radio talk although a little less formal.

 

So my question is, in the real world do people repeat stuff and say "over" etc, or is that just for amateurs? I would prefer not to sound too much like a naff amateur!

As a fully licenced Radio Amateur (and I know there are more using CWDF) I object to your reference to "a naff amateur".

 

from G0JVF over

[nicknorman]

As a fully licenced Radio Amateur (and I know there are more using CWDF) I object to your reference to "a naff amateur".

 

from G0JVF over

Well (as I am sure you realise) the word "amateur" can have different meanings. Mind you, since you chaps refer to yourselves as cured pork, what can you expect!

[Tony Brooks]

I do. The station I'm calling doesn't always get my station name the first time, so I repeat it.

 

 

And if one station is scanning a few channels like VTS, LImehouse and distress then the set may to switch fast enough to hear the initial name. I never caught Naughty Cal's name when they followed me up the Trent, only their messages.

[nicknorman]

And if one station is scanning a few channels like VTS, LImehouse and distress then the set may to switch fast enough to hear the initial name. I never caught Naughty Cal's name when they followed me up the Trent, only their messages.

Why were you scanning Limehouse when going up the Trent?

 

 

 

(Ps - don't answer!)

[BGA]

Well (as I am sure you realise) the word "amateur" can have different meanings. Mind you, since you chaps refer to yourselves as cured pork, what can you expect!

Amateur is not necessarily synonymous with incompetent :-)

[nicknorman]

Amateur is not necessarily synonymous with incompetent :-)

Well with that statement, I totally agree! Alright then please substitute "novice" for "amateur" in my previous posts.

 

But now I will have every abbey and nunnery on my back!

[Naughty Cal]

 

And if one station is scanning a few channels like VTS, LImehouse and distress then the set may to switch fast enough to hear the initial name. I never caught Naughty Cal's name when they followed me up the Trent, only their messages.

Depending on who we were in contact with at the time we may not have announced who we were which is why you didn't catch it.

[john6767]

 

And if one station is scanning a few channels like VTS, LImehouse and distress then the set may to switch fast enough to hear the initial name. I never caught Naughty Cal's name when they followed me up the Trent, only their messages.

I had not thought of that, that makes for a very good reason for repeating the station you are calling, they should use that one the course. In your example though are you saying you missed the station being called, "this is" and the calling station's name before the scan locked on to the transmission. As you can guess I have no experience of scanning in practive, but when I set the set to scan through a few channels it goes through then quite quickly, but I don't know what that means in terms of reception. BTW, what channels would you be monitoring on the Trent?

[Tony Dunkley]

A typical call to Torksey for us would be along the lines of:

 

Torksey Lock, Torksey Lock this is Naughty-Cal, Naughty-Cal, over.

 

Naughty-Cal, Torksey.

 

Torksey, Naughty-Cal, We are approaching the lock from upstream/downstream and will be with you in ?? minutes. Can we lock through at your convenience, over.

 

Naughty-Cal, Torksey, Lock will be ready in ?? minutes, Torksey Out.

 

Naughty-Cal, out.

 

The only time we have had to be more formal on the radio was at Goole Docks when he insisted we spell out the boat name phonetically as it wasn't displayed on the bow of the boat

 

If you keep your radio on CH06 on the ditch you will hear some radio comedy gold

 

Yes, I've heard that there's a public lavatory at Torksey now, but I didn't know you have to book in by VHF to use it.

[nicknorman]

I had not thought of that, that makes for a very good reason for repeating the station you are calling, they should use that one the course. In your example though are you saying you missed the station being called, "this is" and the calling station's name before the scan locked on to the transmission. As you can guess I have no experience of scanning in practive, but when I set the set to scan through a few channels it goes through then quite quickly, but I don't know what that means in terms of reception. BTW, what channels would you be monitoring on the Trent?

Alternatively just hold down the transmit key for a second before speaking. The scan stops when it gets a carrier, not when it hears voice.

Edited June 24, 2015 by nicknorman

[john6767]

Alternatively just hold down the transmit key for a second before speaking. The scan stops when it gets a carrier, not when it hears voice.

Yes that is true, but it is what others do that counts.

[DandV]

Narrow boat Whio calling CWF. Narrowboat Whio calling CWF.

Having just come off the Trent at Keadby after a trip including Lincoln and the Chesterfield we found that both VHF and landline contact with lockies was disadvantaged by the fact both sets were in the office but the cell phone was in their pocket and automatically switched to messaging. The pleasures of boating pt2 Monday punching 18kt winds, a hail storm and 2ft 6 whitecaps. The 40ft narrowboat following was pitching noticably. Out.

Don and Val NB Whio being a bit naff.