Is there a difference? Watermate Keys

[MtB]

I have a copy key, bougt to replace a lost BW key. Sometimes its OK and sometimes (too often) its not. The Thrupp lift bridge absolutely refuses to accept the copy key

 

 

It's always been happy with any of my copy keys so far.

 

You're obviously not buying a high enough standard of copy! I think all mine were about £3 each.

 

 

MtB

[Saffa]

Thanks for the responses. I bought a CRT key from the Marina for £6.

[Guest]

Well here is a previous post from yourself where you explained that a copy you had purchased had one less groove in the blank than a genuine Watermate key.

(The picture showing the two no longer seems to appear, though).

 

So by your own past evidence a copy key does not necessarily use the same blank as an original.

I can't immediately see how the lack of a groove would be a problem, unless you encountered a lock somewhere that a key lacking the groove would not physically push into. (That could, of course, be quite possible, and reasons why the key might not go in at all are both explicable and logical).

But they were different, weren't they, even if it worked for you in every lock you have tried it in?

 

Just what is your point Alan?

 

I didn't say the keys were not different, nor claimed they used the same blank did I? I am well aware of the missing groove and recall the picture I posted.

 

Can you show me where I said they were not different please?

 

I simply said I found I had no problem using a copy version. That is all.

Do you really? I find that hard to believe MJG. To me it is obviously down to the quality of blank and skill of the key cutter. Some will have suitable (but not genuine) blanks and a higher level of skill others wont.

Christ on a bike....just buy a genuine one as I said earlier, they are cheap enough now compare to copies.

[alan_fincher]

Just what is your point Alan?.

 

It is certainly possible to design a lock that the one having an extra groove would fit into, but the one lacking it would not.

 

I have no idea if any locks on any water points, bridges, locks, or any other facility are designed like that, but if they were the "clone" key could be unusable.

 

I don't have enough detailed knowledge of the working of security locks to know if that is the only reason a "clone" key might not work though - perhaps someone who knows the subject better might point out other reasons why the missing groove might make a key not work.

 

Unlike you I don't find the fact that some people say "they have found a lock that they won't operate" either "inexplicable" and "illogical". Given the known facts about the difference it is not hard to see it could happen.

[Guest]

It is certainly possible to design a lock that the one having an extra groove would fit into, but the one lacking it would not.

 

I have no idea if any locks on any water points, bridges, locks, or any other facility are designed like that, but if they were the "clone" key could be unusable.

 

I don't have enough detailed knowledge of the working of security locks to know if that is the only reason a "clone" key might not work though - perhaps someone who knows the subject better might point out other reasons why the missing groove might make a key not work.

 

Unlike you I don't find the fact that some people say "they have found a lock that they won't operate" either "inexplicable" and "illogical". Given the known facts about the difference it is not hard to see it could happen.

I think as I said, for about the third time now just buy a genuine one, they are about two quid more than the copies if you have any doubt a copy won't work.

 

It's just not worth the effort or bandwidth to debate something that is a simple none issue really.

[Jerra]

Christ on a bike....just buy a genuine one as I said earlier, they are cheap enough now compare to copies.

MJG you seem to be getting a little agitated. I have no need at the moment for a key copied or otherwise I have all I need.

 

I was taking part in a discussion, strangely I thought that is what the forum was for! I was responding to you saying "I simply find that inexplicable and illogical." I didn't think (and still don't) that an intelligent person like yourself finds the difference between keys "inexplicable and illogical". Hence the fact I said "do you really".

[Guest]

MJG you seem to be getting a little agitated. I have no need at the moment for a key copied or otherwise I have all I need.

 

I was taking part in a discussion, strangely I thought that is what the forum was for! I was responding to you saying "I simply find that inexplicable and illogical." I didn't think (and still don't) that an intelligent person like yourself finds the difference between keys "inexplicable and illogical". Hence the fact I said "do you really".

Nighty nighty...this is an utterly pointless 'discussion'.

[Jerra]

Nighty nighty...this is an utterly pointless 'discussion'.

Lol

[Ange]

Well I'm glad of this thread. We mislaid our one and only BWB key recently and Dave replaced it with 5 keys bought el cheapo from eBay (might seem like overkill but the number of times we were without when we needed it convinced us to have keys everywhere!) I'll order a pucker one straight away so we don't get stuck in the middle of nowhere unable to operate a bridge! Cheers folks

[matty40s]

I do take a couple with me on boat moves, just in case, and have several times found that one will, one will not open certain locks. The Winkwell bridge is one of those.

[Ange]

PS decided to order one now and followed Martin's link - £7.49 including p&p. Not sure why it costs £2 to mail a key when I selected economy delivery but not bothered enough to spend time saving a pound or two.

 

It always aggravates me that you have to go through the buying process before you find out how much they're going to rush you for postage above the attractive looking headline price.

[DHutch]

Market segmentation that is....

 

Only ever genuine keys, last one was about £6 from a canalside shop.

 

 

Daniel

[MtB]

Well I'm glad of this thread. We mislaid our one and only BWB key recently and Dave replaced it with 5 keys bought el cheapo from eBay (might seem like overkill but the number of times we were without when we needed it convinced us to have keys everywhere!) I'll order a pucker one straight away so we don't get stuck in the middle of nowhere unable to operate a bridge! Cheers folks

 

I have three keys that all live on the same hook in the boat. The number of keys on the hook fluctuates over time between three and one. I have three because it used to fluctuate between two and zero!

[Ange]

 

I have three keys that all live on the same hook in the boat. The number of keys on the hook fluctuates over time between three and one. I have three because it used to fluctuate between two and zero!

We've got three on the boat, one in the car and one in my handbag. We had our last epic fail when we were on our winter mooring and were fetching water by car in containers. I'm sure the original will turn up at some point but want to make sure we don't get caught out again

[Alan Saunders]

Each lock manufacturer specifies the height/interval of tumblers. A simple copy of a key may not comply.

 

A perfect key should open every perfect lock. Unfortunately, many locks and many keys are worn.

 

Best chance of success is with an 'original' key even if the lock is worn.

 

Alan

[Ange]

Rubbish. The copies are fine.

..

Edited April 28, 2015 by Ange

[bizzard]

Definition of panic = Diarrhea and a naf sanny key.

[Paul C]

I didn't say there aren't any that the copies won't open, I said I had never found one personally. As to why some say they have found a lock that they won't operate I simply find that inexplicable and illogical.

 

 

 

Its probably better come to terms with the "inexplicable and illogical" situation of a non-genuine key not opening a critical lock, whilst browsing the forum (possibly whilst considering purchase of a key) than when out boating and faced with a bridge (or service facility etc) which would stop you - and the boat - on its journey.

[Guest]

Definition of panic = Diarrhea and a naf sanny key.

 

Very good.

[Guest]

PS decided to order one now and followed Martin's link - £7.49 including p&p. Not sure why it costs £2 to mail a key when I selected economy delivery but not bothered enough to spend time saving a pound or two.

 

It always aggravates me that you have to go through the buying process before you find out how much they're going to rush you for postage above the attractive looking headline price.

 

That's annoying because when you first look at the key on that link it clearly shows the postage as £0.00, implying the cost of P&P is included. Adding £1.99 at the end is pretty extortionate to post a small item like that.

 

ed - mind you £1.99 looks to be good value when you see how much Midland Chandlers want to send you the same small item.

 

 

How on earth do they justify £5 (with the VAT) for P&P!!

Edited April 28, 2015 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

I do take a couple with me on boat moves, just in case, and have several times found that one will, one will not open certain locks. The Winkwell bridge is one of those.

 

Matty,

 

Out of genuine curiosity......

 

When you find something, (like the Winkwell bridge) that the clone key will not operate, is it.....

 

1) It will not physically insert.

2) It inserts fine, but will not turn.

3) It inserts, will turn, but nothing happens.

4) None of the above, (please describe the problem!)

 

Cheers.

[kris88]

I've heard from CRT maintenance staff, that the copies damage locks. I don't know how true this is, but there where definitely some swing bridges round here where the locks got unusable. The reason given for this was the use of copy keys.

Regards kris

[BruceinSanity]

I've heard from CRT maintenance staff, that the copies damage locks. I don't know how true this is, but there where definitely some swing bridges round here where the locks got unusable. The reason given for this was the use of copy keys.

Regards kris

I'm trying to imagine how this could be, beyond the obvious situation of a cheapo key snapping in the lock. I guess if the key profile lifts a tumbler just slightly too high, or not quite high enough, and the key was forced round anyway, the tumblers could get mangled?

[Hoose]

More like crt blaming something else to cover up the lack of maintenace on their part

[furnessvale]

Handcuff key.

 

Where would I need to have one. Is it parts of the Leeds & Liverpool Canal?

Unless I have missed it, no one seems to have noticed your secondary question.

 

The handcuff key is the 'T' key with a quarter inch square hole in the end. You will need one in many locations nationwide. Anywhere they are having vandal problems.

 

On the BCN a neat little quarter turn of the key releases the lock.

 

On the Ashton you need so many turns to release a bolt, that a battery electric screwdriver with an adapted socket on the end is very handy.

 

George ex nb Alton retired