Is there a difference? Watermate Keys

[Saffa]

Hi

 

Just seen these two items on ebay.

 

Is there a difference between a

 

Canal and river trust CRT key ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canal-and-river-trust-CRT-key-/281513469090?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item418b82a4a2 )

 

And

 

British canal Key - BWB river key - canal lock key

( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-canal-Key-BWB-river-key-canal-lock-key/271739126289?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3Ddb32538cc66c4cfabc8308c46b02ec13%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281513469090 )

 

Thank You

 

Its not the price!

 

 

[GoodGurl]

no difference at all.

They are both from the same buyer too

Edited April 24, 2015 by GoodGurl

[alan_fincher]

no difference at all.

They are both from the same buyer too

 

Or same seller even!

 

Quite possibly the same picture used for each listing.

 

Some people report total success with these unofficial clone keys, other that there ate locks they will not work in where a genuine one will.

 

So, whilst a lot cheaper than the "real" thing, be aware some people say they are not as good.

[onionbargee]

The cheap copies are not made from the correct high security key blanks, and are very slightly different, at some point you will find out why they are cheaper. Miles from anywhere, at a swing bridge or water tap that won't open. Winkwell being one that does not like them.

 

Not worth the few quid you save.

[Guest]

The cheap copies are not made from the correct high security key blanks, and are very slightly different, at some point you will find out why they are cheaper. Miles from anywhere, at a swing bridge or water tap that won't open. Winkwell being one that does not like them.

Not worth the few quid you save.

Rubbish. The copies are fine.

[jonesthenuke]

I have a copy key, bougt to replace a lost BW key. Sometimes its OK and sometimes (too often) its not. The Thrupp lift bridge absolutely refuses to accept the copy key and works immediately on a CaRT/BW key (I borrowed one from a helpful hire boat).

 

So last week I spend the £10 or so and ordered an official key. I wish I had done this in the first place.

[Nightwatch]

Slightly off topic.

 

Going onto the Soar in the next few days/week or so. Are the paddles the same. Normal windlass?

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that on one part of the system you need a thingy like a pick axe handle.

 

I have had a sudden panic.

[Neil Smith]

I have an old be key about 15 years old, have they changed or will it still work.

 

Neil

[Scholar Gypsy]

I have an old be key about 15 years old, have they changed or will it still work.

 

Neil

 

It will work fine. One of ours is 30 years old.

Slightly off topic.

 

Going onto the Soar in the next few days/week or so. Are the paddles the same. Normal windlass?

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that on one part of the system you need a thingy like a pick axe handle.

 

I have had a sudden panic.

 

Yes, standard Grand Union paddle gear. You may be thinking of the Calder & Hebble.

[alan_fincher]

Slightly off topic.

 

Going onto the Soar in the next few days/week or so. Are the paddles the same. Normal windlass?

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that on one part of the system you need a thingy like a pick axe handle.

 

I have had a sudden panic.

 

Yes, as said the Calder and Hebble sometimes requires a "handspike".

 

Actually, although we had one, we progressed quite a long way up the C&H from the Aire and Calder end intially finding that where they were used, there was a mixture at that end of the lock, and most locks you could still work just with windlass operated paddles, albeit slower.

 

However eventually reach locks where all paddles at one end need a "spike" and you would be stuck without one, (although improvising with another strong bit of wood is possible).

 

I rather liked them, but climbing on and off the boat with something bigger than a baseball bat sounds a bit odd at first. At least, unlike most windlasses, if you drop them in they will float!

[matty40s]

You will need your water mate key for some of the locks from Aylestone (KINGS LOCK) to Kilby Bridge.

[Nightwatch]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Water mate key, read, BW/CRT key, correct?

 

Martyn

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Water mate key, read, BW/CRT key, correct?

 

Martyn

 

Correct

[Nightwatch]

Thanks Martin.

 

Even though you don't own a boat,you are extremely knowledgable and helpful. (Insert slightly tongue in cheek smilie)

 

Has your sale completed?

 

Martyn

[Nightwatch]

Martin.

Just looked at Rugby Boat Sales. I seem to remember that Dog House was under offer. I apologise for my previous comment.

 

To correct. As a boat owner you are knowledgable and helpful.

 

Martyn

[onionbargee]

Rubbish. The copies are fine.

What a daft reply, when I've just told you exactly why they are not the same. I discussed it with a locksmith, its not my opinion. Its a high security key blank, high st key cutters are not officially allowed to copy them, and the correct blanks are not commonly available. Which is why the real ones cost £7 each. The eBay ones are the closest they can get on a cheap blank.

Edited April 27, 2015 by onionbargee

[Guest]

What a daft reply, when I've just told you exactly why they are not the same. I discussed it with a locksmith, its not my opinion. Its a high security key blank, high st key cutters are not officially allowed to copy them, and the correct blanks are not commonly available. Which is why the real ones cost £7 each. The eBay ones are the closest they can get on a cheap blank.

 

But they work fine regardless of what your locksmith says.

 

I haven't yet found a lock, sanitary station, moorings gate or anything else where my copy didn't work in. I understand some say they have encountered locks that they wont open - as to why that is I don't know, I just know I never found one.

 

BTW you can get the 'proper' ones now for less than £7.

 

Half way down the page. These guys have them for £5.50 inc. P&P.

 

http://www.canalshoponline.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d33.html

 

So to me it's not really worth now going for the copies, they were considerably cheaper when I got mine, the copies now seem much closer in pricing terms.

[GoodGurl]

sometimes lock keepers have them in their sheds and will give one to you free (dropped/lost by other boaters),we were given one at grindley brook on the Llan FOC just for the asking.

[Guest]

One thing you have to watch out for if you are precious about ensuring you have a genuine one at all times is when you do a key swap at some of the electric/hydraulic locks on the Northern waterways, some times you will end up with a copy when you do this if you don't check.

 

I hadn't thought about it until I was doing this with another boater who insisted she checked my key was a genuine one before she handed hers over. (I was using my genuine one at the time)

[Paul C]

 

But they work fine regardless of what your locksmith says.

 

I haven't yet found a lock, sanitary station, moorings gate or anything else where my copy didn't work in. I understand some say they have encountered locks that they wont open - as to why that is I don't know, I just know I never found one.

 

BTW you can get the 'proper' ones now for less than £7.

 

Half way down the page. These guys have them for £5.50 inc. P&P.

 

http://www.canalshoponline.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d33.html

 

So to me it's not really worth now going for the copies, they were considerably cheaper when I got mine, the copies now seem much closer in pricing terms.

 

They don't though.

 

I've found locks which a genuine key will open, and a copy key won't (we have one of each). Until you've done 100% of the system, you couldn't say no locks exist that it won't open. I don't need to have done 100% of the system to say a lock exists which it won't open.

[Guest]

They don't though.

 

I've found locks which a genuine key will open, and a copy key won't (we have one of each). Until you've done 100% of the system, you couldn't say no locks exist that it won't open. I don't need to have done 100% of the system to say a lock exists which it won't open.

I didn't say there aren't any that the copies won't open, I said I had never found one personally. As to why some say they have found a lock that they won't operate I simply find that inexplicable and illogical.

 

But as I have also provided a link where the genuine ones can be had for just over a fiver I think it's rather pointless debating the issue, as if you don't believe the copies will work the genuine ones aren't really that much more expensive from the source I provided. Just buy one.

[Sabcat]

I can tell you for a fact that my front door key, despite looking like a BW key, won't work. Don't ask me how I know this

[Jerra]

As to why some say they have found a lock that they won't operate I simply find that inexplicable and illogical.

Do you really? I find that hard to believe MJG. To me it is obviously down to the quality of blank and skill of the key cutter. Some will have suitable (but not genuine) blanks and a higher level of skill others wont.

[Nightwatch]

So, to summarise, a Watermate key is the same as a BW/CRT key.

 

Am I right or am I right. I have learnt something today.

 

Martyn

Handcuff key.

 

Where would I need to have one. Is it parts of the Leeds & Liverpool Canal?

[alan_fincher]

I didn't say there aren't any that the copies won't open, I said I had never found one personally. As to why some say they have found a lock that they won't operate I simply find that inexplicable and illogical.

Well here is a previous post from yourself where you explained that a copy you had purchased had one less groove in the blank than a genuine Watermate key.

 

(The picture showing the two no longer seems to appear, though).

 

So by your own past evidence a copy key does not necessarily use the same blank as an original.

 

I can't immediately see how the lack of a groove would be a problem, unless you encountered a lock somewhere that a key lacking the groove would not physically push into. (That could, of course, be quite possible, and reasons why the key might not go in at all are both explicable and logical).

 

But they were different, weren't they, even if it worked for you in every lock you have tried it in?

 

Also bought a Watermate key from eBay - or so I thought.

 

When it has arrived I can see that although the pattern has been cut the same there is an additional groove in the profile that isn't on the one I've bought so I'm guessing it's going to be a dud....

 

See pic below - new one the one at the bottom