Police boarding your boat - is this allowed?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I am interested in the etiquette aspect (and I am talking other boaters not police officers).

 

Is it normal to walk across the bows of a moored occupied boat to reach the towpath when a smidge further on there was a perfectly clear lock landing built for the purpose.

 

Is it normal to then walk across the bows of a boat (mine) moored on the lock landing, go past that boat into oval occupied by a vintage boat moored by the lock cottage, breast up to said moored boat and expect the boat previously on the lock landing to have to manoeuvre around you in order to enter the lock they had been setting for themselves before you turned up. AND then have the audacity to say that you had been making rather a meal of it??? IS IT ME?

 

The locks in question were Barton Turns followed by Tatenhill lock.

 

I observed the boaters following me do both of these. I thought it incredibly ignorant of them.

It does sound a bit ignorant on first presentation although I would need a bit of clarification first. When you said '...a smidge further on there was a perfectly clear lock landing...." how far is that particular 'smidge'? If we are talking less than a boat length then the incoming boat may well have thought that you were on the lock mooring in which case clambering across your boat would have been acceptable. The second part sounds particularly ignorant however since there was no actual reason to cross your boat since they could just as easily have got off their boat as they entered the pinch point going into the 'oval' (bit of a strange set up at Tatenhill Lock). In honesty it sounds as though they were trying to make some point (not sure what).

 

Whilst still on the subject of boating etiquette, as I said earlier, in sailing circles is is considered very impolite to cross the stern of a boat that you have breasted up against, you are always expected to cross the bows. Is the etiquette the same with narrow boats? The reason I ask is that I would actually prefer anyone crossing my boat to do so at the stern (trad stern) since with the doors shut it is totally private whereas if someone crosses the bows they will probably have to tread on my cratch cover to get there and whilst doing so would be looking in the cratch windows which invades the privacy a bit.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Pykebird]

I personally have no issues with police getting on either my back or front deck for any reason. But security positioned at either end will have!

[Dreadnaught]

The status of a boat is exactly that of the status of a motor vehicle, the Police can enter it and search it at any time without the need for any type of warrant.

So, there Roman Abramovich sinking a few Verve Cliquot on his super boat/luxury yacht and Plod in his size 14s just randomly wanders in across the white shagpile and shakes him down? I don't think so.

[mark99]

So, there Roman Abramovich sinking a few Verve Cliquot on his super boat/luxury yacht and Plod in his size 14s just randomly wanders in across the white shagpile and shakes him down? I don't think so.

 

 

I too, I believe, can think up a ridiculous, theoretical and dare I suggest nonsensical scenario to support ........ what exactly?

 

Out with it man!

Edited April 11, 2015 by mark99

[Dreadnaught]

 

 

I too, I believe, can think up a ridiculous, theoretical and dare I suggest nonsensical scenario to support ........ what exactly?

 

Out with it man!

Try reading the thread from the start of the OP then you can make an even better smart-arsed remark all of your own

[thunderbird]

They do indeed do their best to cloud the issue. Ignore those making such a meal of this, they are talking twaddle!

 

Thank you - at least someone read it as a simple question

 

I guess I should have put the last sentence in LARGE BOLD PRINT where I said "it's not really a big deal, I was just wondering"

 

Seems you and a couple of others took it the way it was intended - other's feel the need to turn a simple question a MAJOR faux pas

[Paul G2]

I still fail to see any relevance to betties original post, other than your attempt to blow it out of proportion. She asked a simple question, with specific circumstances. She just needed the answer to those circumstances.

Anyway, you carry on, I've lost interest.

 

In all fairness, Wandering Vagabond was replying to a bit of an off topic post I made. Regardless, the police were called by a female in distress and the officer tried for 25 minutes to reason with her captor. Just exactly how would you have handled the situation? Anyway, what kind of an idiotic response is, "I can't find the door key."? Give me a break!

 

You usually seem like a pretty reasonable person. What have you got against the police? Come try living with the fascist pigs in this country and I bet you'll feel a whole lot different about your local constabulary. If the police in this country had to do their jobs without guns, the whole lot of them would be peeing their pants and hiding in alleys. I've heard many a cop say, "There are two kinds of people in this world, a**holes and cops." The police here firmly believe that, and treat the public accordingly. You people have a good thing with your police force. You should learn to appreciate them!

[Dave_P]

Just to muddy the waters further:

 

At my home mooring, I moor end-on to a pontoon, reversing into my spot. There is no side pontoon. Without getting onto my boat, the only thing people can knock is my taff-rail and I usually can't hear it. I much prefer it when people get onto my boat and knock on my door.

 

Since the boats here all all tied together, side by side, it is perfectly normal to walk onto each other's boats to tie up etc.

 

Our mooring layout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Street_Basin#/media/File:Gas_Street_Basin_Worcester_Bar.jpg http://www.veritymilliganphotography.com/#/birmingham/

Edited April 12, 2015 by Dave_P

[Phil Ambrose]

I can't "find the key" was a phrase I often heard when I was a milkman and called for my money.

The people were absolutely genuine, the key having been removed from the door the previous evening and put somewhere "safe"

My sister in law does this on a regular basis , her argument is that a thief could break the window and get the key to let themselves in, go figure.

Phil

[jenlyn]

 

In all fairness, Wandering Vagabond was replying to a bit of an off topic post I made. Regardless, the police were called by a female in distress and the officer tried for 25 minutes to reason with her captor. Just exactly how would you have handled the situation? Anyway, what kind of an idiotic response is, "I can't find the door key."? Give me a break!

 

You usually seem like a pretty reasonable person. What have you got against the police? Come try living with the fascist pigs in this country and I bet you'll feel a whole lot different about your local constabulary. If the police in this country had to do their jobs without guns, the whole lot of them would be peeing their pants and hiding in alleys. I've heard many a cop say, "There are two kinds of people in this world, a**holes and cops." The police here firmly believe that, and treat the public accordingly. You people have a good thing with your police force. You should learn to appreciate them!

Where have I shown, or for that matter stated I have something against the police??

[bargemast]

 

In all fairness, Wandering Vagabond was replying to a bit of an off topic post I made. Regardless, the police were called by a female in distress and the officer tried for 25 minutes to reason with her captor. Just exactly how would you have handled the situation? Anyway, what kind of an idiotic response is, "I can't find the door key."? Give me a break!

 

You usually seem like a pretty reasonable person. What have you got against the police? Come try living with the fascist pigs in this country and I bet you'll feel a whole lot different about your local constabulary. If the police in this country had to do their jobs without guns, the whole lot of them would be peeing their pants and hiding in alleys. I've heard many a cop say, "There are two kinds of people in this world, a**holes and cops." The police here firmly believe that, and treat the public accordingly. You people have a good thing with your police force. You should learn to appreciate them!

 

Cops with that sort of mentality belong to the category of a**hole-cops, and need being locked up.

 

Peter.

[Graham.m]

Just thought this might help on the Bailiffs remarks

 

County Court Bailiffs & High Court Enforcement Officers (Sheriffs)

 

County Court Bailiffs

 

You usually don’t have to open your door to a bailiff or let them in.

 

Bailiffs can’t enter your home:

 

by force, e.g. push past you

 

if only children under 16 or vulnerable people (e.g., disabled) are present

 

between 9pm and 6am

 

through anything except the door

 

Bailiffs are allowed to force their way into your home to collect unpaid criminal fines, Income Tax or Stamp Duty, but only as a last resort.

 

High Court Enforcement Officers (Sheriffs)

 

Sheriff's powers are greater than a County Court Bailiff's

 

They can force entry to commercial premises, garages or sheds not physically attached to domestic premises.

 

They can also enter domestic premises through an unlocked door or open window. A Sheriff can also force entry to domestic premises where items have been listed for removal to remove those items where the debtor has reneged of a payment agreement

 

But in both cases this is only with them holding a writ from the court to collect the debt etc. Their Warrant

 

 

 

 

[bizzard]

My mum would say that a stranger was coming if she'd gone and left the teapot lid off, and one usually did, 'The dreaded rap on the door of the rent man'. Go and tell him I'm not in she'd say; ok mum;- --- Mum says she's not in.

[Machpoint005]

Our police officers may be inconsiderate, ignorant or unwittingly offend against etiquette -- all OK up to a point, they are human after all.

 

Personally I've always found that being helpful and cooperative to a police officer is easier for everyone concerned. But then, as a law-abiding, white, middle class, middle-aged man, that would tend to be my experience, wouldn't it?

[bargemast]

My mum would say that a stranger was coming if she'd gone and left the teapot lid off, and one usually did, 'The dreaded rap on the door of the rent man'. Go and tell him I'm not in she'd say; ok mum;- --- Mum says she's not in.

 

This reminds me a bit of what I used to do if I didn't want to go to school, I would call the director and say :"Hello, this is my father speaking my son can't go to school today, as he's needed at home", I don't know why he never believed me, maybe because he knew my fathers voice.

 

¨Peter.

[Bettie Boo]

My mum would say that a stranger was coming if she'd gone and left the teapot lid off, and one usually did, 'The dreaded rap on the door of the rent man'. Go and tell him I'm not in she'd say; ok mum;- --- Mum says she's not in.

 

If my Mom dropped a knife on the floor she would always say a single visitor was going to come to the door, if it was a fork she dropped that meant it get ready for a multiple of visitors coming

[StarUKKiwi]

Bailiff? Isn't there some sort of court appointed officer as well, ISTR seeing something on the electric television about reclaiming debts either through payment or removal of assets

 

Richard

 

I think this has already been answered, but Bailiffs do not have the right to force entry. They are now allowed to gain entry through unlocked doors and windows, but not if vulnerable peiple, such as under 16, disabled etc are present.

That's it! They seem to have very extensive powers

 

Richard

They don't have extensive powers, but have been known to be economical with the truth to gain entry

 

 

I think bailiffs are appointed by the court so that power has been given to them to deal with that particular circumstance

They have to have a signed warrant from the court, civil debt is different from criminal debt

 

Found the posts I was looking for:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=65050&page=3#entry1268369

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=63669&page=5#entry1226950

Thanks Nigel, saved me looking.

 

I take a dim view of people boarding our boat uninvited. However, we have a cratch cover, so generally people knock on the roof or the window and unzipping the cover is like entering. (Also deters gongoozlers)

[bizzard]

 

This reminds me a bit of what I used to do if I didn't want to go to school, I would call the director and say :"Hello, this is my father speaking my son can't go to school today, as he's needed at home", I don't know why he never believed me, maybe because he knew my fathers voice.

 

¨Peter.

When I didn't want to go to school my mum would threaten to get the 'school board man' round, it usually worked, the blighter only lived around the corner, we used to play tricks on him and he was regular casualty of our ''Knock down Ginger''.larks.

[Emerald Fox]

" When you said '...a smidge further on there was a perfectly clear lock landing...." how far is that particular 'smidge'? " ( W V )

 

In driving school I was always told never to be exact on accident reports as insurance companies / lawyers can be niggley-piggley so you must always write 'approx.' for distances and speeds.

In this case I would say 'approximately a smidge.'

[Emerald Fox]

"If my Mom dropped a knife on the floor she would always say a single visitor was going to come to the door, if it was a fork she dropped that meant it get ready for a multiple of visitors coming" (BB)

 

So if she dropped both a knife and a fork onto the floor at the same time, would that mean one group would be shortly calling, or a group of just one?

[Barroca Grande 2]

By a smidge - I meant the moored boat was pretty much the last place to moor without being on the lock landing. This was at Barton Turns. My boat was already in the lock and so the lock landing there was completely vacant (two boats worth).

 

In that case it was the gentleman who helped me at the lock. Seemed a nice fella.

 

At the next lock I could see them have a discussion and they clearly decided there was more room for her to cross my bows rather than my stern. This meant their boat had basically overtaken mine and was now blocking the narrow entrance to Tatenhill oval. If I had been the following boat I would have stayed out in the canal until the boat on the lock landing had left.

 

She took great exception to my comment that they were queue jumping hence why they made such a big thing of me having to negotiate my way past after I said they might as well take the lock as I wasn't in a hurry.

 

Sorry to hijack this topic - glad to hear that basically this is not normal boating behaviour. Certainly the first time I have witnessed it.

 

I have a ridiculous sense of guilt and feel as if I am doing wrong when I use a CRT working flat boat to cross when they are moored in the way on a lock landing.

 

I always knock on the roof of a boat and stand to the side so I don't see in when calling in to see folk. (If they have dogs I ring them instead just in case they have gone shopping and left the dogs home alone.)

 

I didn't get the impression they were new to boating but perhaps they were not livaboards.

He seemed a nice fella however I would gladly push her into the water if I found her being a pirate and boarding my boat without permission in the future!

[bizzard]

Some folk say I'm mean about putting coal on my stove,'one bit' every so often. Well, it's not really my fault, frugal behavior is bred into me. I'm just rationing it, just in case. You see, when I was a kid the coalman would always come very early before my mum was ready to answer the door to receive quests, especially folk like rent collectors, milkmen, baker and coalmen. Anyhow the coalman got fed up with this and refused to deliver our coal anymore. We exhausted our searches for coal men willing to deliver the coal to us , our reputation for not opening the door seemed to have spread to every coal merchant far and wide by what was known as ''The coal Staithe telegraph'' consequently we had to make a few coal lumps or if we were lucky 1cwt of coal, one stale loaf and a bottle of milk, most of which homemade cheese was made, last for ages and ages, and this was long after post WW2 rationing ceased.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

In all fairness, Wandering Vagabond was replying to a bit of an off topic post I made. Regardless, the police were called by a female in distress and the officer tried for 25 minutes to reason with her captor. Just exactly how would you have handled the situation? Anyway, what kind of an idiotic response is, "I can't find the door key."? Give me a break!

 

You usually seem like a pretty reasonable person. What have you got against the police? Come try living with the fascist pigs in this country and I bet you'll feel a whole lot different about your local constabulary. If the police in this country had to do their jobs without guns, the whole lot of them would be peeing their pants and hiding in alleys. I've heard many a cop say, "There are two kinds of people in this world, a**holes and cops." The police here firmly believe that, and treat the public accordingly. You people have a good thing with your police force. You should learn to appreciate them!

Whilst I was replying to you post, it was also to add emphasis to another poster who wrongly seemed to believe that Police could only enter premises (including boats) either by invitation or on warrant. This seemed to be what 'my' drunk had believed (wrongly). His error was compounded by the fact that he also had the mistaken belief that if I forced entry I would have to make good any damage. Provided that the forced entry is lawfully justified then the Police do not pay for the repairs. The other side of that coin is that on the occasions I have had to force entry to elderly people's property following 'concern for welfare' I always tried to do so with the absolute minimum of damage. If they had a non-deadlocking Yale lock I was laughing since I can get through them in seconds. In those circumstances using the 'big red key' was always the very last option (precisely because of how much damage they can cause). It did seem a bit harsh that if Police have to force entry to your home because you've suffered a heart attack, you (or more often your insurers) have to foot the bill, but then that is why we have insurance isn't it?

[twbm]

Once went to a 'concern for welfare' - elderly lady not answering phone to distant relatives. No reply to lots of loud banging, nothing to be seen in the front room, went round the back, climbed the fence, saw her slumped in front of the gas fire in the back room. Took out the whole frame and door when I broke in - it happens quite often - no special tools required, just the Mk 1 Doctor Martins.

 

We scared the crap out of each other when she saw me enter the room and leaped up screaming ...... from drying her hair. I called her relatives to say she was OK, nipped out to the shops to get batteries for her hearing aid and went back when I finished work with a boot full of tools to fix the door.

[jenlyn]

Once went to a 'concern for welfare' - elderly lady not answering phone to distant relatives. No reply to lots of loud banging, nothing to be seen in the front room, went round the back, climbed the fence, saw her slumped in front of the gas fire in the back room. Took out the whole frame and door when I broke in - it happens quite often - no special tools required, just the Mk 1 Doctor Martins.

 

We scared the crap out of each other when she saw me enter the room and leaped up screaming ...... from drying her hair. I called her relatives to say she was OK, nipped out to the shops to get batteries for her hearing aid and went back when I finished work with a boot full of tools to fix the door.

Greenie! (a proper Bobby). Pity they have slowly disappeared.