Why is there a Looby (Luby) on a motor?

[Leo No2]

I have been asked to talk about an historic narrowboat (motor) - I know the history of the boat in question but I can't find out (nor do I know) why a motor should retain a Looby (Luby) which I thought were only used on horseboats or butties. Could someone put me out of my ignorance please.

[alan_fincher]

Previous thread.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

On re-reading that, there is also some interesting discussion about what David Blagrove, the Narrow Boat Trust, and others all now call "thumb lining", (i.e. using the boats to pull the bottom gates open when a lock has emptied).

 

I find it interesting that myself, my brother Mike, and (particularly) Tam Murrell all have no memory of it ever being called that on our bits of the GU, and all of us firmly remembering "gate lining". Interestingly Tam describes "thumb lines" instead as being holding back lines for the butty - this kind of makes sense, as you could consider the pin they drop over as a "thumb".

 

Now I'm reluctant to question those far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be, but I do seriously wonder if this isn't a case of the memory playing tricks, and wonder if "thumb lining" that now appears in about every third issue of Narrow Boat magazine isn't in fact a modern term with no historic authenticity. (Or, of course, different terms were used by different people and/or in different areas).

 

Also there appears to be little consensus on the spelling of Looby / Luby!

Edited March 27, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Leo No2]

Thanks Alan - didn't think to search I am afraid.

[alan_fincher]

Excuse to republish this, which I love!

 

On the video at the end at about 04:20 Ron Green is just bringing our "Flamingo" out of the emptied top lock at Stoke Bruerne.

You can clearly see the mast of Flamingo raised, and the gate line hanging down from it, more or less guaranteeing he has just used the mast, including the looby to pull the gate open.

 

[gazza]

Alan,

 

Its interesting what you say about a term or piece of info gaining popularity and credence when repeated often enough by certain people who seem to have the ear of the boating press.

 

Digressing slightly: -

 

My chief gripe is the nonsense about the pronuciation of the Nene, In his book Waterways of Northamptonshire Mr Blagrove asserts that the pronuciation changes from Nen to Neen at Thrapston. Being a local lad with a fair few firends who have family that stretch back many generations living in Thrapston I know this to be utter bollocks!

Sadly, its gained enough traction to be repeated in the Imray Guide to the Nene, the only publication for our river so it has sort of becomes a self perpetuating myth.

 

The good people of peterboroughshire pronounce it incorrectly, I however, shall maintain my stance that the Nene rises in my county of Northants (I was born in the Barratt Maternity at NGH) its my river and I am bloody well right!

Edited March 27, 2015 by gazza

[Tony Dunkley]

Previous thread.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

On re-reading that, there is also some interesting discussion about what David Blagrove, the Narrow Boat Trust, and others all now call "thumb lining", (i.e. using the boats to pull the bottom gates open when a lock has emptied).

 

I find it interesting that myself, my brother Mike, and (particularly) Tam Murrell all have no memory of it ever being called that on our bits of the GU, and all of us firmly remembering "gate lining". Interestingly Tam describes "thumb lines" instead as being holding back lines for the butty - this kind of makes sense, as you could consider the pin they drop over as a "thumb".

 

Now I'm reluctant to question those far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be, but I do seriously wonder if this isn't a case of the memory playing tricks, and wonder if "thumb lining" that now appears in about every third issue of Narrow Boat magazine isn't in fact a modern term with no historic authenticity. (Or, of course, different terms were used by different people and/or in different areas).

 

Also there appears to be little consensus on the spelling of Looby / Luby!

 

You're quite right about the use of the term 'thumb line' for pulling gates open . . . it's wrong . . . a thumb line was used from the stern T-stud on the butty onto the the small pin that stuck up near the top gate collar, or if that was broken or missing, on the top gate paddle spindle.

When singling out, loaded, in downhill locks, the butty tends to be drawn ahead and over against the motor as the motor starts moving ahead to exit the lock and you can end up with both boats going out together with the butty's fore-end drawn in hard against the motor's counter, which then sends the motor veering off towards the butty's side bank. The thumb line stops this happening and helps to get both boats on the move out of the lock a bit quicker, and going straight down the middle of the cut. It's essential that the thumb line is loosed by the butty steerer at just the right moment to let the butty start moving when the motor's counter is about alongside the butty's mast, this makes picking up the tow with the snatcher a bit faster than if the butty was still stationary in the lock.

The lines used for pulling gates open downhill, on the very rare occasions when they were being talked about rather than just being used, were referred to as mast lines.

There exists somewhere, a photo, taken as far as I remember by Hugh McKnight in the 1960's, of Doris Collins standing in the hatches of 'Belmont' in the top lock of Buckby, using a thumb line.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[David Schweizer]

I must admit that after decades of not knowing what it was called, I started using the term "thumblining" a few years ago, assuming it to be the correct term for opening bottom gates with lines attached to the mast or T stud. When I was first taught the proceedure back in the 1960's I cannot recall it being called anything, which lends supports to Alan's and Tony's assertions. I will try and remember to call it "mast lining" in future.

 

With regard to the correct pronouncition of the River Nene, Our captain always called the whole length the "Nen" and that is what I have subsequently always called it. However, given that working boatmen often pronounced place names etc differently from most land based people, there is no guarantee that his pronouncation was the correct one. For example how many (non Canal) people call Marsworth "Maffers"

Edited March 27, 2015 by David Schweizer

[gazza]

I must admit that I have been using the term "thumblining" for a number of years, assuming it to be the correct term for opening bottom gates with lines attached to the mast or T stud. However, when I was first taught the proceedure back in the 1960's I cannot recall it being called anything, which lends supports to Alan's and Tony's assertions. I will try and remember to call it "mast lining" in future.

 

With regard to the correct pronouncition of the River Nene, Our captain always called the whole length the "Nen" and that is what I have subsequently always called it. However, given that working boatmen often pronounced place names etc differently from most land based people, there is no guarantee that his pronouncation was the correct one. For example how many people call Marsworth "Maffers" or Fenny Compton "Finny"

David,

 

You miss the point I was making.

 

It's the nonsense of the change at Thrapston as promoted by Mr Blagrove, not the fact it is pronounced two different ways.

[alan_fincher]

My chief gripe is the nonsense about the pronuciation of the Nene, In his book Waterways of Northamptonshire Mr Blagrove asserts that the pronuciation changes from Nen to Neen at Thrapston. Being a local lad with a fair few firends who have family that stretch back many generations living in Thrapston I know this to be utter bollocks!

Sadly, its gained enough traction to be repeated in the Imray Guide to the Nene, the only publication for our river so it has sort of becomes a self perpetuating myth.

 

A bit like one waterways book after another repeats the myth that you can't see right through Braunston tunnel from one end to the other due to the S-bend near the Southern end.

 

This is nonsense of course, and you can very easily see very clearly through it, if it isn't swamped by exhaust fumes.

 

But it seems near impossible for anybody to write about the tunnel without repeating this nonsense.

 

I can only assume many canal writers don't travel the canals they pretend they know about!

[gazza]

 

A bit like one waterways book after another repeats the myth that you can't see right through Braunston tunnel from one end to the other due to the S-bend near the Southern end.

 

This is nonsense of course, and you can very easily see very clearly through it, if it isn't swamped by exhaust fumes.

 

But it seems near impossible for anybody to write about the tunnel without repeating this nonsense.

 

I can only assume many canal writers don't travel the canals they pretend they know about!

Ha ha! Our ancient Nicholsons has that nugget in it.

 

My friend who has hired extensively over the years but has yet to do my patch mentioned the S bend at Braunston - myth firmly dispelled :-)

[David Schweizer]

 

A bit like one waterways book after another repeats the myth that you can't see right through Braunston tunnel from one end to the other due to the S-bend near the Southern end.

 

This is nonsense of course, and you can very easily see very clearly through it, if it isn't swamped by exhaust fumes.

 

But it seems near impossible for anybody to write about the tunnel without repeating this nonsense.

 

I can only assume many canal writers don't travel the canals they pretend they know about!

 

There is a common phenomenum in books where the information is copied from another book without any proper research There are about six Wiltshire history books which all refer to a particuar large building in the centre of our Village as the Manor House, when it is in fact just a grand house built by a rich Victorian. The Real 15th Century Manor House is hidden behind a high wall on the edge of the village.

 

I call it intelectual laziness.

[Laurence Hogg]

The term Looby, luby or lube is a myth. No where on any drawings existing is the term used, just "towing pin" or similar, the mast referred to as "mast & case"..

Edited March 27, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[GUMPY]

It's the nonsense of the change at Thrapston as promoted by Mr Blagrove, not the fact it is pronounced two different ways.

So is it Nen or Nene?

 

I was led to believe the change was Oundle not Thrapston

[Bee]

I think I can remember someone talking about the 'knot' on the top gates as a thumb knot but a) this was all before my time and I know a thumb knot as a quick way of tying a loop in a rope or a knot at the end of a piece of sewing thread to stop it being pulled through, and, c) please don't think this is some gem of hitherto unknown canal or sewing lore to be claimed as knowledge gained from some old boatman, I'm not quite old enough to qualify!

[BuckbyLocks]

So is it Nen or Nene?

Not quite as old as Mr B, but I was born in South Northants and had never heard of this strange River Nen until relatively recently. Even the spellchecker doesn't like it.

[Paul H]

The term Looby, luby or lube is a myth. No where on any drawings existing is the term used, just "towing pin" or similar, the mast referred to as "mast & case"..

But the drawings would not show an ellum either. Luby is certainly a word used by working boatman. It would be interesting to know where the word comes from though.

 

Paul

[Derek R.]

We'd better stop calling "pigeon boxes" pigeon boxes, as they've nothing to do with pigeons, and they are not strictly speaking a box which is generally closed or closable on all six sides.

Though if they be myths - then so be it: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth- traditions.

 

So - why a "towing pin" on a motor?

[Tony Dunkley]

The term Looby, luby or lube is a myth. No where on any drawings existing is the term used, just "towing pin" or similar, the mast referred to as "mast & case"..

 

It isn't a 'myth', it's a canal boatman's name, or term, for that particular part of what they called a 'top mast', which fitted inside the 'box mast'. A great many parts, fittings and items of gear used on narrow boats were referred to by names you would never see on any Yard Drawings or Chandlers lists . . . . here are a few more . . . . deck lid, uprights, stretchers, knee strings, ring holes, backend, top tank, fat cup, doorholes, backdoor, hatches, ramshead, tipcat, ellum pole, snatcher, snubber, rims, tippets, slide, tunnel hook, blade, guard(s), shoeing, speedwheel, plaits, swansneck, kicking strap, . . . . not 'myths', just terms used by the people who had a far longer and closer association with narrowboats than those who built them.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[David Schweizer]

Not quite as old as Mr B, but I was born in South Northants and had never heard of this strange River Nen until relatively recently. Even the spellchecker doesn't like it.

 

Well the name of the river used to be spelt Nenn as illustrated in this 1810 engraving of Northampton by Cole Roper, How it was actually pronounced is of course a matter of conjecture.

 

Edited March 28, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Laurence Hogg]

It isn't a 'myth', it's a canal boatman's name, or term, for that particular part of what they called a 'top mast', which fitted inside the 'box mast'. A great many parts, fittings and items of gear used on narrow boats were referred to by names you would never see on any Yard Drawings or Chandlers lists . . . . here are a few more . . . . deck lid, uprights, stretchers, knee strings, ring holes, backend, top tank, fat cup, doorholes, backdoor, hatches, ramshead, tipcat, ellum pole, snatcher, snubber, rims, tippets, slide, tunnel hook, blade, guard(s), shoeing, speedwheel, plaits, swansneck, kicking strap, . . . . not 'myths', just terms used by the people who had a far longer and closer association with narrowboats than those who built them.

Spot on Tony, I couldn't agree more but interestingly they were sold by chandlers for mast use other than on narrow boats. very few pieces of chandlery were just for narrow boat use, the angled chimney collar being one, and possibly the only item. Where the name cam from is a mystery.

[roland elsdon]

To go back to the initial post, we used to have circa 50 foot lines on both masts on motor and butty

Multiple uses

If the bow was on one bank and the butty on cross straps far safer to take the line and pull the motors bows over rather than shaft,. ( not uncommon with clothed up town class on the long windy. Northants pounds, when getting away 1 handed.

Good when breasting up while moving grab a mast line as the butty comes past, just in case you miss the front line, and end up on the front of the motor with a gap between you and the butty.

 

Good for strapping either to a bollard to hold in on a lock landing

Gives butty steerer a centreline if it's wet icy or slippery and she isn't keen on walking down the top plank , same applies to motor if the planks are not in.

Only a few uses one last on open hold. Mast to welly rail makes good drying line.

 

Welly rail .....oh no another bizzare name...

[Speedwheel]

The Lady Hatherton has an interesting Luby arrangement. One on each gunnel, by the front bulkhead of the cabin, held on an iron frame.

I can't find any pictures that show it clearly.

[FadeToScarlet]

The Lady Hatherton has an interesting Luby arrangement. One on each gunnel, by the front bulkhead of the cabin, held on an iron frame.

I can't find any pictures that show it clearly.

Diagrams I've seen of packet/fly boats (in, I think, EPT's Canal and River Craft) show a towing ring on the gunwales, some distance back from the fore end, so I suppose the normal arrangement didn't work at higher speeds.