Non Tidal Thames Threat !

[MtB]

 

Not according to CRT. What will you do when they tell you that you need to get back to your mooring, when you are not cruising?

 

Request a judicial review, silly...

[luctor et emergo]

 

Request a judicial review, silly...

 

 

What? You mean that you would question CRT's remit?

 

surely it's their waterway, and you have to play by their rules?

[MtB]

Yawn

[luctor et emergo]

Yawn

 

 

Told you so.

[NigelMoore]

the "continuous cruising" concept is irrelevant on the Thames as the EA is not bound by the same legislation that keeps getting CRT's knickers in a twist.

 

I would be curious to see the content of the actual letter referred to; I would suspect that the description was subject to subconscious editing. I still cannot imagine what substituted wording might be though - any chance of a verbatim report?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Except the Riparian owner, owns to the mid line of the river. Is your anchor trespassing? Just as a fisherman cannot fish from his bank, or stand in waders a metre or two from it.

Having gone to the bother of looking up these bylaws the wording does not cover anchoring off the riverbank, the precise wording is,"..."moor" means the act of being physically attached to the land, physically touching the land or tied to objects in the land, by way of ropes, gangplanks,stakes in the ground,or other similar methods...."so you can throw the anchor off the bow if you wish.

 

All a bit academic really since this seems to be just another 'look at how terrible things are' thread based on very little. My recollection of coming down the Thames is that there are very few moorings that you don't have to pay for, am I shocked? No not really. There are miles and miles of riverbank adjacent to people's houses marked 'Private - No Mooring', am I appalled? No not really. I don't know if Richmond tried the 'No Mooring' sign approach before going to the trouble of creating a bylaw but I would imagine that without anything to back them up the would probably be ignored. Now you ignore the signs at your peril.

[Serenity Malc]

Yello,

 

To clarify, I've not seen the actual EA document stuck on my friends boat yet, he summarised it's contents over the phone to me. We are used to ad hoc notices from the EA here .... but he found this new one very officious and threatening.

 

I managed to track down the online details of London Borough of Richmond's new bylaw this morning. It has VERY clearly mapped out areas of new mooring regulation. Some are 1 hour maximum stays and others are 24 hour. Fortunately I am currently approx 100 metres outside their boundary but it would appear that LBR and specifically targeting moorings where illegal boaters and boats commonly habit.

 

 

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/byelaws_and_local_legislation

 

Serenity Malc.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Yello,

 

To clarify, I've not seen the actual EA document stuck on my friends boat yet, he summarised it's contents over the phone to me. We are used to ad hoc notices from the EA here .... but he found this new one very officious and threatening.

 

I managed to track down the online details of London Borough of Richmond's new bylaw this morning. It has VERY clearly mapped out areas of new mooring regulation. Some are 1 hour maximum stays and others are 24 hour. Fortunately I am currently approx 100 metres outside their boundary but it would appear that LBR and specifically targeting moorings where illegal boaters and boats commonly habit.

 

 

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/byelaws_and_local_legislation

 

Serenity Malc.

Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by 'illegal boaters and boats'? Are these unlicensed,uninsured,non-BSS boats? If that is the case then Richmond have my undying support for taking action against them and probably most other boat users would support them.

[dccruiser]

Having visitors moorings packed full of pretend visitors is indeed sick - for those who actually do want to cruise. The EA are not a housing authority and the Thames is not a housing estate. As someone who does have a home mooring but does also actually go cruising, I welcome these initiatives.

 

How is that for a balanced alternative view?

Couldnt agree more! ... Just need CART to adopt the same approach and visitor moorings would be just that, moorings for people genuinely visiting an area whilst passing through

 

As a licence paying, BSSC valid .... and insured boater living on the Thames ...... I rarely use any EA moorings. You are obviously fortunate enough to have a home mooring ...... therefore this conversation will not affect you in any way ........ apart from giving you the pleasure of a boat free Thames to cruise around.

Surely it wont affect you either if you genuinely CC

 

In addition ....... I dispise the unlicenced, non BSSC and uninsured hotel boats housing our european fellows around Teddington ....... they give us legal boat users a very bad name.

But ..... I do not feel that we should all be tarred with the same brush.

For me it will mean finding a home mooring at the expence of food and other life requirements.

 

But hey !! ......

Know the feeling... BUT, when i made the decision to buy a boat i knew exactly what the costs of ownership were going to be, licence, moorings, maintenance, insurance, BSC's etc... but my love of boating made it a no brainer even though i knew it wouldnt leave me a lot over for other "life requirements" from my meagre forces pension, had i not been able to stretch to afford it i would have done as i did in the past and settled for a weekend yoghurt pot just for the pleasure of being on the water ( at one point i even had a 16' mayland on a trailer so i only had slippage charges to worry about.)

So, i am sorry i dont feel sympathy as i wouldnt expect any sympathy if i bought a boat and couldnt meet my obligations, but i guess it depends which camp you come from, the one that would still be a boater even if it meant doing it in a dinghy, or the other camp that still see boats as a cheaper alternative to houses, which in reality they are not, unless of course you run the risk of not complying with the rules... trouble is as soon as the said rules bite you in the backside, your defense is, this is my home, rather than accepting that it was your choice to put yourself in that position and if you have had a good run before coming unstuck lucky you! If it is no longer affordable then you do the same as myself and many others, sell up and use the money to fund alternative accommodation, then return to the water when you can afford it.

 

 

Rick

[Serenity Malc]

I'm certainly not looking for sympathy Rick ....... and I didn't buy my 50' WB to take out on sunny days ....... so thank you, I did look into the costs of boating on the Thames before I purchased. D'oh !

 

My post was to make other users of the Thames aware of current legislation and EA antics.

 

Serenity Malc.

[blackrose]

I thought you always had to declare a home mooring to get a licence on the thames?

I don't think so, at least not for a visitor licence.

[Serenity Malc]

My licence application form from the EA this year came preprinted with my last home mooring address under the sub heading of 'normal boat address' ..... but then again I disposed of the application form after the licence had been issued.

I thanked you for the offer at the time Blackrose ..... but I didn't care to use my dingy every time I wanted land access. Plus I now have moved downstream nearer to my homelands and family.

I'm waiting on a local eyot to offer me a home mooring ....... then I can be as smug as the rest of you ..... regarding Thames moorings.

[OldGoat]

As I've written before -

EA can only dictate terms on their own managed moorings or property (and if you're genuinely cruising - free for one night).

They cannot dictate where you may or may not moor elsewhere - that's the job / right of whoever owns that particular piece of bankside. Invariably these are alfresco places to moor; no Armco, No bollards, no flat place to put your chairs of Barbie. Just a bit of piece and quiet apart from the cows farting and the blurry paraquats screeching all day and night.

So most narrow boaters pass them by (thank heavens)....

 

Unlike other rivers and enshrined in the by-laws is the right for you to anchor 'in the stream' provided you do not cause an obstruction - and the riparian owner can do nowt about it.

 

Thinking about DB owners - and to satisfy my satiable curtiosity - last season in one of my most favourite overnight stops, somebody had installed the most impressive pair of beautifully made ground anchors - Solid as Gibl-el-Tariq . I'd be intrigued to know whose they were (send me a PM or admit on here) ' cos I'd like to thank him or her for the use of them. About 60ft apart. They went late last summer, so I hope they've not been nicked.

 

For visitors - the River is / can be a friendly place, 'specially for minorities such as DBs and NBs. Giant white stink boats are not included - not because they are stuck up but more reasonably they are so high up their -umm - flybridges that they can't hear you (especially if they don't turn their engines off).

 

 

[Mr Badger]

 

... Unlike other rivers and enshrined in the by-laws is the right for you to anchor 'in the stream' provided you do not cause an obstruction - and the riparian owner can do nowt about it. ...

 

 

 

In any case on the stretch between Teddington and Staines-upon-Thames the riparian owners don't own the river bed. The reason being that Staines-upon-Thames was the original natural tidal limit before the river was canalised.

[Serenity Malc]

I'm guessing that scores of illegal sheds and their owner / tenants will be trying to head up the GU from Brentford from tomorrow on ...... either that or they'll try to head up stream passed Sunbury.

I expect they'll be traveling out of lock keeping hours as they will mostly be unlicenced.

[Lady Muck]

I'm guessing that scores of illegal sheds and their owner / tenants will be trying to head up the GU from Brentford from tomorrow on ...... either that or they'll try to head up stream passed Sunbury.

I expect they'll be traveling out of lock keeping hours as they will mostly be unlicenced.

Well, very best of luck to them - I have never seen so much boat movement since, 'the letter' went out on CRT waters. They won't be able to hang around, unlicensed, like they did on the Thames. There are four or five enormous Dutch barges moored near me that I've never seen before, I guess they were shuffling around Hackney, until they got the letter.

I'm going to the Thames soon, going boating for the whole of summer and autumn. Got my Gold license. Cannot wait.

[kris88]

There do seem to be a lot of Dutch barge liveaboards (around London) for sale on eBay recently. This is probably why, I imagine the cruising range must be limited around that way.

Regards kris

[cuthound]

There do seem to be a lot of Dutch barge liveaboards (around London) for sale on eBay recently. This is probably why, I imagine the cruising range must be limited around that way.

Regards kris

 

The majority of Dutch Barges are at least RCD Category C (winds up to Force 6, waves up to 2 metres) with some at Category B (seagoing). Given that the Thames leads to the sea, I would say these have a mahoosive cruising range.

[Alan de Enfield]

The majority of Dutch Barges are at least RCD Category C (winds up to Force 6, waves up to 2 metres) with some at Category B (seagoing). Given that the Thames leads to the sea, I would say these have a mahoosive cruising range.

 

"All the gear & no idea"

[youthoftoday]

The majority of Dutch Barges are at least RCD Category C (winds up to Force 6, waves up to 2 metres) with some at Category B (seagoing). Given that the Thames leads to the sea, I would say these have a mahoosive cruising range.

 

Are we talking about the same boats? There's as few Dutch barges around Oxford, about 100 years old. I wouldn't take them past Richmond, let alone out to sea!

[Giant]

Are we talking about the same boats?

 

Probably not. "Dutch barge" is an awfully broad term that can include many very different sorts of vessels. Even between two vessels of the same type, conversions can vary wildly as to seaworthiness. I don't think this is a useful point to argue over.

[cuthound]

Are we talking about the same boats? There's as few Dutch barges around Oxford, about 100 years old. I wouldn't take them past Richmond, let alone out to sea!

I was talking about modernish "replica" Dutch Barges. However original Dutch Barges were originally seaworthy - presumably that's how they got to this country in the first place.

 

As youth of today says, Dutch Barge is a term used to describe many different boats of various vintage.

[youthoftoday]

Getting back on topic, I'd really like to see a copy of this letter! I'm on the Thames with a mooring but there are plenty who are and haven't.

[kris88]

Oh dear I didn't mean to cause an argument, I meant they probably haven't got much of a cruising range on the inland waterways. Because of things like wheelhouses and deep skegs.

Regards kris

[youthoftoday]

No argument here!

 

I would have thought reduced range would include 'standard' craning and low-loading too. What will people do with old boats that they suddenly can't license?