Anyone just received CRT letter 'reminding' CC'ers to move?

[Graham Davis]

Exactly my point - I don't have a mailing address

 

I have a friend in Birmingham who's address I use. But it's not to actually receive mail (other than CRT), but to give those institutions who insist they need an address...bank, doctor, phone provider. Although all of them are set up as paperless with the exception of CRT

 

So that is the address you have your licence sent to?

Therefore the address to which they would send any other Official documentation.

[GUMPY]

 

Email can be set up to show it was "read/opened", we had this at the last company I worked for so the technology is defiantly out there, you could also request an automatic reply to show the email was opened.

 

You may like many others think that is conclusive proof however its the simplest thing in the world to override at the recipient's end.

When working in an office I never sent a read/opened recipt unless I wanted to no matter who has sent the email.

Even delivery recipts are useless as the are generated by the senders computer.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Loddon

[Mike Todd]

 

CRT are on a hiding to nothing. For every person who's calling on them to define a distance, there's another who says ...

 

 

that they're not entitled by law to define a distance.

I don't think that CRT are claiming to be defining what **You** must do to comply with the law. They know as well as anyone that at the moment that is not possible.

 

What they **are** entitled to do is to specify under what circumstances **they** will take action, knowing that the cases are so manifestly non-comp0liant that there is a very high probability at succeeding should the case come to court.

 

This is not amn attempt to re-define the law, however much some people claim that it is.

[cotswoldsman]

If C&RT's EO's delivered all these letters to the boat/boatowner in question by hand they would not only have proof of delivery/receipt, but it would serve as an opportunity to talk about the perceived problem face to face, and/or a chance to confirm whether or not the boat is complying with the lawful requirements for a CC'er

Well said Tony this has been suggested to CRT many times. Engaging with non compliant boaters makes a lot of sense

[Mike Todd]

Entitled or not, that is how they are enforcing. If they tell a boater he/she is not moving far enough to comply then they must be able to say how far is enough!

 

The following is an extract from Notes of Boating Organisations Meeting with CRT: 19 Jan 2015 -

 

 

Of course, the history of this is that the Trust wanted the boating organisations to say ‘how far should I travel to comply?’ but failed to get agreement.

 

... now it seems like they don't have the guts to do so themselves.

nor do they need to - yet.

[Bettie Boo]

 

 

You're really not getting this are you Bettie?!

 

They can say what they like about not receiving the letter, a court will ignore them and deem it to have been served regardless provided a Certificate of Posting exists. That's just the way our legal system works.

 

Argue about how it ought to be by all means, but for now, letters with Certificates of Posting are deemed by the courts to have been received. Emails are not.

 

 

You have to provide a mailing address to get a license. This is the address CRT will use to communicate with you.

 

Claiming you didn't receive mail sent to your nominated address cuts no ice with the courts here in the UK.

 

 

MtB

 

No - I get the gist (now) of the virtues of using snail mail with reference of using it a evidence of communication in a court case.

 

But we're talking about sending out reminders to ccer's about moving on.

 

Could/should the system not be set up so it is efficient/cost effective as possible?

 

Suggestion only -

 

1st step - send reminder (via boater's preference of communication either snail mail or email)

 

2nd step - (those who have remained non compliant) notification via snail mail that license will not be renewed due to non compliance (for those who have ticked a preference of email notifications an email could also be sent)

 

3rd step - all remaining correspondence sent via whatever means is recognized in a UK court

 

** note - I have no idea how many "steps" are in the process of a section 8 or informing someone they no longer qualify for a license with no home mooring. I've used the 3 above just as an example not to be confused with that's what I think the process actually is or should be.

 

I simply think it is rather bizarre that the organization who provides me with a license making it legal for me to live on a boat with no home mooring (or address) and move about the UK, insists on me having a mailing address so they can communicate with me

[Paul C]

 

No - I get the gist (now) of the virtues of using snail mail with reference of using it a evidence of communication in a court case.

 

But we're talking about sending out reminders to ccer's about moving on.

 

Could/should the system not be set up so it is efficient/cost effective as possible?

 

Suggestion only -

 

1st step - send reminder (via boater's preference of communication either snail mail or email)

 

2nd step - (those who have remained non compliant) notification via snail mail that license will not be renewed due to non compliance (for those who have ticked a preference of email notifications an email could also be sent)

 

3rd step - all remaining correspondence sent via whatever means is recognized in a UK court

 

** note - I have no idea how many "steps" are in the process of a section 8 or informing someone they no longer qualify for a license with no home mooring. I've used the 3 above just as an example not to be confused with that's what I think the process actually is or should be.

 

I simply think it is rather bizarre that the organization who provides me with a license making it legal for me to live on a boat with no home mooring (or address) and move about the UK, insists on me having a mailing address so they can communicate with me

 

They're trialling a scheme in London where reminders are sent by text.

[Maffi]

Exactly my point - I don't have a mailing address

 

I have a friend in Birmingham who's address I use. But it's not to actually receive mail (other than CRT), but to give those institutions who insist they need an address...bank, doctor, phone provider. Although all of them are set up as paperless with the exception of CRT

Then you do have a mailing address!

[GoodGurl]

Scared me to death when i saw CRT header

 

I thought the trial letters and licence non-renewals are only going to NEW CCers, but soon they'll be expanded to all CCers?

I'm not a new CC'r and i have one.

 

All CCer's will get the letters over the next few months, I've just rang and asked.

How will they get these letters to boaters without a home address or internet connection?

[Paul C]

 

How will they get these letters to boaters without a home address or internet connection?

 

How will the boater receive the licence which they're supposed to display?

[cotswoldsman]

 

How will the boater receive the licence which they're supposed to display?

In my case I asked them to send it to the Wigan office and popped in to pick it up

[GoodGurl]

 

How will the boater receive the licence which they're supposed to display?

they can nominate a CRT office to pick it up from

[jenlyn]

Scared me to death when i saw CRT header

 

I'm not a new CC'r and i have one.

 

 

How will they get these letters to boaters without a home address or internet connection?

They will send it to wherever the licence is sent.

 

They want you to be scared, that's their operational platform.

Bully, scare, intimidate, that's the only option some of them can think of.

Edited March 3, 2015 by jenlyn

[Alan de Enfield]

 

How will the boater receive the licence which they're supposed to display?

 

On our renewal last year was a letter explaining that it is planned that in the future the licence 'disc' will be emailed to you and you have to print it out.

 

I asked the question about that - what about no printer, what about colour etc etc. No answer.

 

Puts all the cost onto the boater (paper & ink) - saves C&RT printing costs, envelope costs, stuffing envelope and postage costs.

[Tony Dunkley]

I don't think that CRT are claiming to be defining what **You** must do to comply with the law. They know as well as anyone that at the moment that is not possible.

 

What they **are** entitled to do is to specify under what circumstances **they** will take action, knowing that the cases are so manifestly non-comp0liant that there is a very high probability at succeeding should the case come to court.

 

This is not amn attempt to re-define the law, however much some people claim that it is.

 

That 'high probability' you've mentioned is because they won't be mentioning or arguing about distances in the Court. The proceedings will be based solely on the fact that you haven't got a Licence. I think this is the third time I've pointed this out to you.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Paul C]

In my case I asked them to send it to the Wigan office and popped in to pick it up

 

 

they can nominate a CRT office to pick it up from

 

 

They will send it to wherever the licence is sent.

 

 

 

 

 

On our renewal last year was a letter explaining that it is planned that in the future the licence 'disc' will be emailed to you and you have to print it out.

 

I asked the question about that - what about no printer, what about colour etc etc. No answer.

 

Puts all the cost onto the boater (paper & ink) - saves C&RT printing costs, envelope costs, stuffing envelope and postage costs.

 

There you go Bettie, there's the answer to your address issues.

[Sir Nibble]

I keep reading and hearing pleas for CaRT to specify a minimum distance and that of course would not be legally enforceable anyway. What I would like to know is if a minimum distance was specified, what would anyone do with that information? The law does not specify a distance only that the boat must be used bona fide for navigation. I would contend that any attempt to minimise cruising whether in accordance with an arbitrary figure handed down or by the 14 day shuttle is not bona fide. One should move as far and as often as one wants to and if that is every 14 days for a minimal distance then that is not "bona fide for navigation throughout the period of the licence" it is moving as little as I can get away with. It has already been judged in court that a pattern of movement intended to mert the minimum legislative requirement is not bona fide.

 

 

 

if you need to ask how any boat lengths you need to move then that's a measure and you are not a CCer rather a Continuous Avoider of the checkerman.

 

This ^^^

[Bettie Boo]

Then you do have a mailing address!

 

Yes Maffi, but as already stated it's a friend of ours and we only have mail forwarded to us twice a year using Poste Restante; as it's only CRT that insist on sending us paper communications. Everything else is set up as paperless accounts...bank, doctors, insurance etc etc

[Paul C]

 

Yes Maffi, but as already stated it's a friend of ours and we only have mail forwarded to us twice a year using Poste Restante; as it's only CRT that insist on sending us paper communications. Everything else is set up as paperless accounts...bank, doctors, insurance etc etc

 

Bettie, they stick the enforcement stuff on the boat as well.

[jenlyn]

Bettie, they stick the enforcement stuff on the boat as well.

Really, when?

Do you have some evidence other than what they say they do?

[Paul C]

Really, when?

Do you have some evidence other than what they say they do?

 

Yes

 

My own eyes.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

That 'high probability' you've mentioned is because they won't be mentioning or arguing about distances in the Court. The proceedings will be based solely on the fact that you haven't got a Licence. I think this is the third time I've pointed this out to you.

 

Tony D - allow me to (try) and help

 

Summary :-

 

Many people seem to think that C&RT take you to court for failing to do sufficient distance (CCing) - THEY DON'T

 

If C&RT are not satisfied that you are complying with their 'rules' they cancel / recind your licence.

 

You are then on C&RT waters without a licence.

 

C&RT take you to court for being on their waters without a licence.

 

You cannot argue in court that you do not have a licence because C&RT took it away - that's irrelevant - the Court case is that you were on their waters without a licence.

 

All you can do is to put a counter claim in to C&RT (before they take you to court) claiming they incorrectly took your licence away,

[Bettie Boo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There you go Bettie, there's the answer to your address issues.

 

That would work for our license, but I wouldn't know when they are trying to send me out a reminder about cc'ing obligations or some such, so wouldn't know to ask them to forward it to whatever happens to be the closest CRT office we would be near at the time.

 

Never mind - it seems we are the only cc'ers with this issue, so no need to fix something that isn't working for the minority rather than the majority...we'll keep bumbling along as we have been

[mrsmelly]

Really, when?

Do you have some evidence other than what they say they do?

 

They or CART tied a correspondance to my boat with a tie wrap last week so it didnt blow away.

 

Tim

[jenlyn]

Yes

 

My own eyes.

Seeing one or two here and there does not dictate that they make a habit of it.

I've been doing this stuff almost full time for 3 years, and it's not as commonplace as you would believe.