GUCCC liveries

[fittie]

I was just thinking, which is a little dangerous after a long day, what colour would the big Woolwich and Northwich boats first been painted in? In 1936 there was a new king and therefore a coronation due most likely early '37 or late '36 ( I have not tried to look for the date of ER VIII purposed coronation) but the point is were the boats painted in RWB from the off for the forthcoming coronation which was to have been ER VIII but was in-fact GR VI?

It seems odd to paint the boats in blue if they were thinking of marking the coronation with the new RWB livery.

If you get what I mean.

 

 

fittie

 

edited to add the right king! OOPS!

It was a very, very long day.

Edited January 20, 2015 by fittie

[Leo No2]

Sculptor, albeit a small Northwich, when delivered on 28-November-1935 sported the blue/blue - Cambridge Blue/Oxford Blue) livery. She now has the wartime Deep Red / Midnight Blue paint scheme. Edited January 19, 2015 by Leo No2

[Laurence Hogg]

The whole appearance of the new fleet was to be in line with the trends of that time. The blue livery was worked out to suit the boats by a design agency and was intended to be applied to all new boats. There were problems it would seem with the paint quality as pictures of boats just two years old look ten years old so repainting was probably done sooner than normal. The colour spec and layout diagrammatic layouts are in the possession of CRT museums.

Whilst the blue livery had few variations, the red white & blue certainly did, middle Northwich motors had a different motor cabin layout than the other boats, rear cabin styles varied too. And so it went on even one motor was ainted green with scumbled edge by Nursers! . Upon nationalisation a design agency once again did the work on the blue and yellow livery.

[fittie]

Thanks but does anyone know when the RWB livery was adopted?

[Derek R.]

Circa 1937 - Coronation year.

[James Owen]

The whole appearance of the new fleet was to be in line with the trends of that time. The blue livery was worked out to suit the boats by a design agency and was intended to be applied to all new boats. There were problems it would seem with the paint quality as pictures of boats just two years old look ten years old so repainting was probably done sooner than normal. The colour spec and layout diagrammatic layouts are in the possession of CRT museums.

Whilst the blue livery had few variations, the red white & blue certainly did, middle Northwich motors had a different motor cabin layout than the other boats, rear cabin styles varied too. And so it went on even one motor was ainted green with scumbled edge by Nursers! . Upon nationalisation a design agency once again did the work on the blue and yellow livery.

To what extent and in what format did the middle boats cabin layout differ Laurence ?

[Athy]

Circa 1937 - Coronation year.

...which, just for the record, was that of George VI, not V as suggested.

[fittie]

Sorry - long day and lost glasses.

Yes GR VI

[Tam & Di]

 

It seems odd to paint the boats in blue if they were thinking of marking the coronation with the new RWB livery.

 

In the ERii Jubilee year 1976 I painted the blocks on the top of the stands with union flags rather than the usual diagonally quartered pattern on some of our boats - Towcester and Bude I think. I'd changed our colours to red panel with blue border and light cream stripe after Towcester and Bude were painted in GUCCC colours as Venus and Ariadne for use in the BBC film of Maidens' Trip made by Verity Lambert.

 

I'm not particularly royalist, but I liked the pattern effect. I make efforts to try to get a copy of that production every now and again, but it seems to have totally disappeared - the BBC don't have it. Have you found it Laurence??

[fittie]

Did GUCCC wait until May '37 for the RWB or were boats painted in RWB from 1936 on in advance of the event.

i.e.. Was Lancing delivered in RWB or the two tone blue livery when handed over to GUCCC?

[Tim Lewis]

Did GUCCC wait until May '37 for the RWB or were boats painted in RWB from 1936 on in advance of the event.

i.e.. Was Lancing delivered in RWB or the two tone blue livery when handed over to GUCCC?

 

The Fulbourne group spent much time researching its original livery when the boat was de-converted but to no avail so we went ahead and painted it in Red White and Blue as a best guess.

 

Tim

[Laurence Hogg]

To what extent and in what format did the middle boats cabin layout differ Laurence ?

 

The boats had one single panel on the cabin side not the split ones as on other fleet boats. The lettering was centred.

 

 

In the ERii Jubilee year 1976 I painted the blocks on the top of the stands with union flags rather than the usual diagonally quartered pattern on some of our boats - Towcester and Bude I think. I'd changed our colours to red panel with blue border and light cream stripe after Towcester and Bude were painted in GUCCC colours as Venus and Ariadne for use in the BBC film of Maidens' Trip made by Verity Lambert.

 

I'm not particularly royalist, but I liked the pattern effect. I make efforts to try to get a copy of that production every now and again, but it seems to have totally disappeared - the BBC don't have it. Have you found it Laurence??

 

Tam, In all my searching for known old films this one has never turned up. It may have been done live although I doubt it, this is the reason the Ernie Thomas film cannot be found as it was a live broadcast and no attempt to record it was made.

 

There are a number of missing films which may be out there - somewhere, BS productions who did "Barging along" did more "Many Waters" being one of them.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[pete harrison]

 

The Fulbourne group spent much time researching its original livery when the boat was de-converted but to no avail so we went ahead and painted it in Red White and Blue as a best guess.

 

Tim

The Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. address on the health registration certificate (Rickmansworth 174 - inspected 21 June 1937 and issued 20 July 1937) of FULBOURNE was "Port of London Building", and this is the only address applicable to the red, white and blue livery - so your best guess was correct.

[pete harrison]

Did GUCCC wait until May '37 for the RWB or were boats painted in RWB from 1936 on in advance of the event.

i.e.. Was Lancing delivered in RWB or the two tone blue livery when handed over to GUCCC?

I do not have a full transcript of the Rickmansworth 88 health registration certificate for LANCING, but I do have most of those issued on the same day - 11 August 1936. The Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. address is given on all of these certificates as 20 Bucklersbury, and the only livery applicable to this address was the blue and turquoise version (often referred to as two tone blue livery). In the spring of 1937 a few G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats were lettered "149 Fenchurch Street", also applicable to the blue and turquoise livery.

 

I am confident that LANCING would have carried the blue and turquoise livery with the company address being lettered as "20 Bucklersbury" - for what my opinion is worth

 

edit - what ever livery you choose please do not mix up the colours and the lettering like has been done so many times before, i.e. the "20 Bucklersbury" address does not belong with red, white and blue livery - regardless of how often this may have been reproduced over the past forty years or so.

Edited January 20, 2015 by pete harrison

[madcat]

Can somebody give Phil Speight a prod about this thread, I'm sure he had some paint samples analysed to try and match the blue colour scheme.

[Laurence Hogg]

Can somebody give Phil Speight a prod about this thread, I'm sure he had some paint samples analysed to try and match the blue colour scheme.

 

That may be me, I did some long years ago!

The original references I took from Neptune's engine room casing are here

Dark Blue Pantone 301A, Lighter (turquoise) blue: Pantone 298A.

These are easily matched by the paint technology we have today.

 

Neptune was the second prototype wooden motor so you cannot get more original than that!

 

And the inevitable question, has anyone any knowledge of the whereabouts of Neptune and or her fate?

[James Owen]

The boats had one single panel on the cabin side not the split ones as on other fleet boats. The lettering was centred.

 

One assumes you have photographic evidence of this ?

[Laurence Hogg]

One assumes you have photographic evidence of this ?

Yes there is a picture of Tucana at Willesden in this livery (published in Narrowboat) and one of a motor going across the Ouse aqueduct. We have a still from a movie of the Nurser livery too.

[Tonka]

You cannot find the film for Tam because you are searching the wrong year. Jubilee was 1977 not 76

[James Owen]

Yes there is a picture of Tucana at Willesden in this livery (published in Narrowboat) and one of a motor going across the Ouse aqueduct. We have a still from a movie of the Nurser livery too.

Would you care to share them with us Laurence ?

[alan_fincher]

middle Northwich motors had a different motor cabin layout than the other boats,

 

To what extent and in what format did the middle boats cabin layout differ Laurence ?

 

The boats had one single panel on the cabin side not the split ones as on other fleet boats. The lettering was centred.

 

One assumes you have photographic evidence of this ?

 

Yes there is a picture of Tucana at Willesden in this livery (published in Narrowboat) and one of a motor going across the Ouse aqueduct.

Surely the only think we know with absolute certainty is that if we have a picture of a certain boat painted a certain way, that is what that boat was painted like on the day the photo was taken?

 

Whilst you can theorise that all others of the same type might have been so treated, unless you have pictures of them as well, you can't be certain, can you?

 

Thinking of a later parallel, some railway locomotive of certain classes got painted in experimental liveries that other wise identical members of the same class never got to carry.

 

Possible Tucana picture in CRT archive here

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Laurence Hogg]

 

 

 

 

Surely the only think we know with absolute certainty is that if we have a picture of a certain boat painted a certain way, that is what that boat was painted like on the day the photo was taken?

 

Whilst you can theorise that all others of the same type might have been so treated, unless you have pictures of them as well, you can't be certain, can you?

 

Thinking of a later parallel, some railway locomotive of certain classes got painted in experimental liveries that other wise identical members of the same class never got to carry.

 

Possible Tucana picture in CRT archive here

 

That's the picture which was used in "Narrow Boat", the other good one is on the Ouse aqueduct, a give away for being a middle sized boat is the original canted exhaust stack, not sure if these boats ever had the liner funnel.

[Derek R.]

I'll take a stab at locating that as being John Dickinson's just above Cuckoo lock, Apsley?

[archie57]

They emptied there on the inside, with a conveyor over the canl

[James Owen]

That's the picture which was used in "Narrow Boat", the other good one is on the Ouse aqueduct, a give away for being a middle sized boat is the original canted exhaust stack, not sure if these boats ever had the liner funnel.

Correct me if I'm wrong Laurence, but wasn't it you who confidently stated that the exhaust outlets on middle boats were " extremely forward set" ?

 

Are we now expected to take as gospel that they were canted back also ?