Going Backwards

[Paul C]

IMHO it is possible to reverse and steer, although you need to appreciate the forces involved. There is a steering input from the rudder, but it is very weak. Also, a rudder usually becomes less effective over about 45 deg from the straight position (at least, in reverse). Other forces therefore become more significant and must be considered as well as the rudder, because unlike forwards its not usually possible to counteract these with rudder (and sometimes in forwards too, eg very strong winds, and when the rudder is made less effective by being in eg neutral or decelerating).

 

These are:

 

prop walk

bank effect (being sucked towards the bank). This can happen quite far away from the bank, because you can be sucked towards a shallow area too eg the sloping base of the canal or silt etc.

wind

(river currents etc)

an effect similar to bank effect when passing other boats including those stationary

 

Sometimes, in fact often, you simply do not have an effective enough rudder to steer against one or more of the above forces, and a burst in forwards is needed. But sometimes, you can get reasonable steering control. Its worth playing with the throttle setting and how much rudder to use, to see if there's a particular range most effective.

 

Also another thing I've noticed is that there is a much less well defined 'pivot point' around which the boat steers - which is usually around 1/3 to the middle of the boat, going forwards. Its possible for eg the front end to drift sideways quite a lot whilst the back end is following a straight line, to the point that a corrective forwards power won't save you (because the boat will pivot and its arse will go sideways and hit wot you're trying to avoid).

[Texasboater]

The salesman at Whilton Marine demonstrates reversing in one of their video clips. He uses the short burst of forward gear method.Seemed to work alright.

[Loafer]

I believe length of 'swim' and 'bottom profile' are the two biggest factors. Our (Hudson) is superb in deep water and steers accurately backwards at any speed.

 

Back on the canals though, she's rubbish again, unless its a fairly deep canal.

[Tam & Di]

Is it just a knack, or is there a 'technique'?

 

You just need to keep in mind that in reverse you've effectively got a 2' to 3' boat being steered by a 50' or whatever foot rudder. Generally a longer boat will steer better (going forward) than a shorter one, so a 2' to 3' boat doesn't steer too well.

 

A few points though:

i) The initial problem is to get the boat moving on the line required; after that you just need to take it steady, looking behind you to see that you are going where you want to but more importantly looking at the boat to be sure it is following in line - you need to catch it absolutely immediately if it starts to wander. It's a matter of balance - balance of the forces involved.

ii) If you do need to make adjustments to rudder or engine speed try to do so gently - abrupt changes to either will almost certainly lead to complete loss of control.

iii) Try to stay in the middle of the canal - if you slip over to one side it makes it impossible to get an even water flow past the rudder. You are also more likely to hit rubbish there, which leads to:

iv) Hold onto the tiller very firmly - it is very easy for the rudder to suddenly swing hard over, taking you into the canal if you are not prepared! This is a BAD thing

 

If you do get badly out of line you will need to go back into head gear to correct it as said. The problem is the more often you do this the more eddies and swirling water you will create, and progressively more difficult will it all become. The answer then is to sit down and cry gently to yourself for a while (or make a cup of tea) and then start again when you and canal have both calmed down.

 

Tam

Edited January 12, 2015 by Tam & Di

[Loafer]

 

You just need to keep in mind that in reverse you've effectively got a 2' to 3' boat being steered by a 50' or whatever foot rudder. Generally a longer boat will steer better (going forward) than a shorter one, so a 2' to 3' boat doesn't steer too well.

 

A few points though:

i) The initial problem is to get the boat moving on the line required; after that you just need to take it steady, looking behind you to see that you are going where you want to but more importantly looking at the boat to be sure it is following in line - you need to catch it absolutely immediately if it starts to wander. It's a matter of balance - balance of the forces involved.

ii) If you do need to make adjustments to rudder or engine speed try to do so gently - abrupt changes to either will almost certainly lead to complete loss of control.

iii) Try to stay in the middle of the canal - if you slip over to one side it makes it impossible to get an even water flow past the rudder. You are also more likely to hit rubbish there, which leads to:

iv) Hold onto the tiller very firmly - it is very easy for the rudder to suddenly swing hard over, taking you into the canal if you are not prepared! This is a BAD thing

 

If you do get badly out of line you will need to go back into head gear to correct it as said. The problem is the more often you do this the more eddies and swirling water you will create, and progressively more difficult will it all become. The answer then is to sit down and cry gently to yourself for a while (or make a cup of tea) and then start again when you and canal have both calmed down.

 

Tam

 

Good words. Agreed here.

[Neil2]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but if you want the boat to go astern in a straight line you need to be absolutely stationary to begin with. Even if you think you are stopped, look to one side and check against a stationary object to make sure.

 

Most boats when going astern from stationary will start to push their stern to starboard. You can try and counter this by pushing the tiller slightly to starboard ie the opposite of what you would do when in forward gear. Some boats are very responsive in this respect, some don't respond at all. If it doesn't, then you have to apply a bit of forward thrust with the tiller over to port.

 

As others have said it's much easier the deeper the water and if there's a good wind blowing that will probably override anything you do with the controls.

 

All boats handle differently as well, so it's a good idea to find a nice quiet open stretch of water where you can try different things and see what works on your boat.

 

Oh, and if you think everyone else has it sussed but you, believe me, they don't, it just seems that way when things are going wrong, one of those unwritten laws of boating!

[Loafer]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but if you want the boat to go astern in a straight line you need to be absolutely stationary to begin with. Even if you think you are stopped, look to one side and check against a stationary object to make sure.

 

Most boats when going astern from stationary will start to push their stern to starboard. You can try and counter this by pushing the tiller slightly to starboard ie the opposite of what you would do when in forward gear. Some boats are very responsive in this respect, some don't respond at all. If it doesn't, then you have to apply a bit of forward thrust with the tiller over to port.

 

As others have said it's much easier the deeper the water and if there's a good wind blowing that will probably override anything you do with the controls.

 

All boats handle differently as well, so it's a good idea to find a nice quiet open stretch of water where you can try different things and see what works on your boat.

 

Oh, and if you think everyone else has it sussed but you, believe me, they don't, it just seems that way when things are going wrong, one of those unwritten laws of boating!

 

Even if you think you have it sussed yourself, there will be a day where nothing works and your boat obstinately keeps going to one side. That's probably bottom profile. (Fnarr, fnarr)

[MtB]

I think it is more like a drag chute, but I have never tested.

 

I have tested the bucket idea and it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

I also tried using a mudweight instead of a bucket. Same result.

 

 

 

MtB

[Iain_S]

 

(snip)

iv) Hold onto the tiller very firmly - it is very easy for the rudder to suddenly swing hard over, taking you into the canal if you are not prepared! This is a BAD thing

 

 

And PLEASE stand in front of the tiller; not to the side of it.

If the rudder does hit something, the tiller will go hard over,stopping for nothing, no matter how hard you are holding it

 

Iain

[NickF]

My tip would be to spend 90% of the time looking at the bow and 10% looking where you are going, that way you spot any swing really early, hopefully in time to correct it!

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but if you want the boat to go astern in a straight line you need to be absolutely stationary to begin with. Even if you think you are stopped, look to one side and check against a stationary object to make sure.

 

 

If you are not stationary but moving forward it is quite useful to get the boat swinging slightly to counteract the effect of the prop walk that you know will happen when you go astern.

[MtB]

My tip would be to spend 90% of the time looking at the bow and 10% looking where you are going, that way you spot any swing really early, hopefully in time to correct it!

 

Seconded. In particular, looking forwards you can see the boat begin to 'rotate' and go off course. Unlike when looking where you are going.

 

MtB

[furnessvale]

 

I have tested the bucket idea and it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

I also tried using a mudweight instead of a bucket. Same result.

 

 

 

MtB

Must be different with different boats. I regularly used to reverse Alton, loaded or unloaded, from Furness Vale to Bridgemont, about 3/4 of a mile.

 

I would deploy a purpose made mudweight in windy conditions.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

ps I will say that the mudweight is an aid, not a cure all. If things get out of line nothing is going to save it.

Edited January 12, 2015 by furnessvale

[Ricco1]

In my limited experience it definitely depends on the boat. My hire boat is a doddle to reverse. Set it on its path in reverse, if it goes astray a bit of forward with the rudder to one side as is appropriate. Doing this it maintains its reverse momentum. My own boat is completely different though. As soon as I put it into forward gear the reverse momentum is lost so it's a real struggle.

[DHutch]

Try lashing the till to the central position and steering from the front of the boat with a pole with the engine going just above tickover in reverse.

This

 

Best to use your bow thruster ...

And this.

 

 

Daniel

[Retardedrocker]

Thanks for all the input.

 

There were times when I thought that:

 

a. I would demolish everything within a 2 mile radius.

b. I would never make it back to my mooring.

 

Cheers,

T.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Retardedrocker

[patty-ann]

Gosh this thread has reassured me, I make a real pigs ear of reversing and to read experienced boaters also find it difficult has cheered me up. I try to plan how to go without reversing but sometimes one has to go back in order to move on so as to speak. My problems not helped by critical comments from family member whose husband drives big lorries and so she thinks she knows how its done...I tell her tis different no steerage in reverse....no I won't hand over my precious boat to her to prove a point,

[DeanS]

I love this forum. 40 posts and 600views within 12hrs , on the subject of reversing a boat. That is so funny. We are a funny bunch aren't we

 

 

 

For the record. I reverse using the 30/30 rule.

 

by going......30 secs in reverse.

30secs going sideways....

30secs reverse.

30 secs sideways.

Edited January 13, 2015 by DeanS

[Naughty Cal]

We just turn the wheel, much easier

[IanM]

Try to do it when no-one else is around as everybody knows that the failure rate of a manoeuvre is directly proportional to the amount of people watching.

[Naughty Cal]

Try to do it when no-one else is around as everybody knows that the failure rate of a manoeuvre is directly proportional to the amount of people watching.

But if no one saw you pull of the perfect manouvre, how can you prove you did it?

[Retardedrocker]

I too am re-assured.

 

I was pretty surprised not to find a couple of previous threads on the same subject.

 

Cheers,

T.

[Murflynn]

Actually there have been several threads about it before - mostly old lags discussing girly buttons with some disdain.

[Athy]

Actually there have been several threads about it before - mostly old lags discussing girly buttons with some disdain.

...which, in case our Mr. Rocker does not realise, is a scathing reference to bow thrusters, not to ladies' tummies.

[cuthound]

Of course, if all else fails you can go forwards to the next winding hole, wind and come back. No reversing needed (unless you reach the end of a dead end canal....

 

Gets coat

Edited January 13, 2015 by cuthound

[Proper Job]

Of course, if all else fails you can go forwards to the next winding hole, wind and come back. No reversing needed (unless you reach the end of a dead end canal....

 

Gets coat

 

that hasn't been unknown

 

You get up knowing that you need to get water/empty 'the tank'

 

............. it's a lovely day . Shall I reverse the 1/2 mile to Thrupp wharf?

 

Nah....... sod it. Off to Dukes to turn. It's only 7 miles and a 6 lock round trip (4 hours on a good day)