NBTA London Legal Rights Meeting

[Wanted]

 

Traveller is a catch-all term for a number of ethnic groups, such as Irish Travellers, and Romani People.

 

One cannot simply decide to become a member of an ethnic group, on the basis that you choose to follow their lifestyle.

 

NBTA has appropriated the name, so as to lay claim to the protections that the law affords to the customs of travellers for themselves.

 

Naturally, I exclude from my criticism those Members of NBTA who have actual Traveller or Romani heritage (although I would be surprised that they would wish to associate with those who usurp theor identity)

So it's not catch all then?

 

Again you talk about categories that, whilst neat, bare little relevance to those that actually identify as travellers. NBTA haven't appropriated a name, they are just continuing the ever changing landscape of terminology. (Away from neat little tick boxes)

[Alf Roberts]

And, from someone who spouts barroom law at every point I'd like a reference to this legal definition of 'traveller' such as it entitles anyone to more rights than anyone else

Edited October 6, 2014 by Alf Roberts

[mayalld]

So it's not catch all then?

 

Again you talk about categories that, whilst neat, bare little relevance to those that actually identify as travellers. NBTA haven't appropriated a name, they are just continuing the ever changing landscape of terminology. (Away from neat little tick boxes)

 

It is interesting that they should choose to adopt a name that implies association with an ethnic group that was histotically persecuted, despite not being of that ethnic group.

[Lady Muck]

Doesn't matter if you're part of that ethnic group or not, you can still suffer the same problems.

As someone who now has zero credit rating (because of having to do a declaration of a local connection, to vote) and has just been thrown off her gp list, I can recognise that, alright. Add to that the poverty I've seen (because cruisers in difficulty struggle to claim any benefits), why can't they call themselves travellers? They move around? They cannot provide an address because they move around?

In anycase, I know scores of boaters who do have that heritage, hell, up until quite recently, we were the only people on this site who weren't either Irish traveller Roma or other kind of traveller heritage. Plenty of boaters I know have never lived in a house, their kids are already registered as travellers with the local authority.

[mayalld]

Doesn't matter if you're part of that ethnic group or not, you can still suffer the same problems.

 

And I wouldn't argue otherwise.

 

However, Travellers is a group that has a nomadic heritage, as opposed to individuals who have decided to become nomadic.

 

NBTA should have the honesty to adopt a name that doesn't try to hijack the heritage of an ethnic group.

[Graham Davis]

 

Thirded, and a greenie. This thread has gone a long way towards changing my view of the NBTA (though I still think it's a daft name).

 

Agreed, by please can they drop that word "bargees" and replace it with "boaters".

 

(awaiting another flaming from certain elements here!)

[cotswoldsman]

 

And I wouldn't argue otherwise.

 

However, Travellers is a group that has a nomadic heritage, as opposed to individuals who have decided to become nomadic.

 

NBTA should have the honesty to adopt a name that doesn't try to hijack the heritage of an ethnic group.

You do spout some drivel when I was a salesman many years ago traveling all round the UK we were known as Travelers

[Alan de Enfield]

A google search for the 'definition of 'traveller' brings up the dictionary(British) description as being :

 

• British

  a Gypsy or other nomadic person.

  noun: Traveller
• British

  a person who holds New Age values and leads an itinerant and unconventional lifestyle.

  noun: New Age traveller; plural noun: New Age travellers; noun: New Age traveler; plural noun: New Age travelers

[Lady Muck]

Yep and the kids of new age travellers (now living aboard), that I know are registered with the LA as travellers, so the local authority thinks the definition is correct.

[Tim Lewis]

You do spout some drivel when I was a salesman many years ago traveling all round the UK we were known as Travelers

 

I knew a salesman many years ago who would proundly announce that he travelled in Ladies underwear :-)

 

Tim

Edited October 6, 2014 by Tim Lewis

[mayalld]

You do spout some drivel when I was a salesman many years ago traveling all round the UK we were known as Travelers

 

Had they called themselves (for example) National Travelling Boaters Association, I would have no objection.

 

Instead, they used two words that were specifically designed to conjure up a particular image, and falsely imply a connection with another group of people.

[Wanted]

You seem to be trying to debase the NBTA at every step. Maybe you should join/start your own group?

 

Your myopic view of what a traveller means is based on some sort of government category and not reality. In fact not even by the government standards which reluctantly recognise New Age travellers.

 

As LM says, there are loads of travellers on the cut, some fall into your idea of a traveller, some don't.

 

It's clear that you have taken a dislike to the NBTA and that's fine, but to use this as an argument is silly.

[Sabcat]

The only thing I don't like about the NBTA is when I googled NBTA the top result is National Baton Twirling Association (England).

 

I think there's very much a need for a combative and recalcitrant organisation to represent ccers especially those who are likely to be more financially precarious.

[mayalld]

You seem to be trying to debase the NBTA at every step. Maybe you should join/start your own group?

 

Your myopic view of what a traveller means is based on some sort of government category and not reality. In fact not even by the government standards which reluctantly recognise New Age travellers.

 

As LM says, there are loads of travellers on the cut, some fall into your idea of a traveller, some don't.

 

It's clear that you have taken a dislike to the NBTA and that's fine, but to use this as an argument is silly.

 

I do indeed have a dislike of NBTA on several levels.

 

In particular;

 

1) I take issue with their aim to facilitate those who seek to move as little as possible to the detriment of leisure boaters. I see it as legitimate for me to object to any organisation which seeks to do things that are contrary to my interests.

2) I find their use of a name that is lacking in accuracy as to who they are to be dishonest

 

If I were to found an organisation called the National Working Boatmen's Association, then say "all our members have jobs and they are all men with boats", would you accept the name or would you suggest that it was a little misleading.

[Black Ibis]

As I understand it, the name was chosen because the term "bargee traveller" was already established and used by government to define nomadic boat dwelling people (eg in this and this), stemming from its use to define (equally inaccurately) working boat people and their families. Personally I don't like the term because I think it is antiquated and ill suited to modern boating and I consider myself neither a bargee nor a traveller. But it makes sense for the group to align itself with an existing term already defined in government papers, as it makes it easier to point to documents setting out rights (and responsibilities), rather than making up and attempting to define new terms.

[BruceinSanity]

I knew a salesman many years ago who would proundly announce that he travelled in Ladies underwear :-)

 

Tim

My father travelled in paint. He was a colourful character...

[Wanted]

 

I do indeed have a dislike of NBTA on several levels.

 

In particular;

 

1) I take issue with their aim to facilitate those who seek to move as little as possible to the detriment of leisure boaters. I see it as legitimate for me to object to any organisation which seeks to do things that are contrary to my interests.

2) I find their use of a name that is lacking in accuracy as to who they are to be dishonest

 

If I were to found an organisation called the National Working Boatmen's Association, then say "all our members have jobs and they are all men with boats", would you accept the name or would you suggest that it was a little misleading.

Call your association whatever you like, I don't see that as a fair analogy at all. You are clearly standing outside and staring in Dave, this is not how it is but you have made yourself clear, I'm not shifting on this and I doubt you will so I'll leave you to it.

 

I am going to take an extraordinary stance and attend the next meeting to make up my mind about the NBTA.

 

Rob

[peterboat]

No

plus 1

[peterboat]

Two comments which may be seen as off topic.

 

First there are a number of forum members whose behaviour I would have been ashamed of it if had come from my girls when they were 7 or 8. For God's sake grow up, stop the sniping, name calling and silly signatures. You are making the forum look less of a discussion forum more a child's playground and making yourselves look infantile.

 

Second why do so many boaters seem hell bent on stopping CRT doing anything which may make the running of the system easier and as a result long term mean more effort can be put into making it better.

 

Sorry rant over.

Not a rant very correct in my opinion people always seem to want change but not if it affects them. Whereas the reality is things have to change as a minority of people are trying to use the waterways as a cheap place to live, to the detriment of the majority, who just want to get on with their lives without undue interference from the authorities. The problem is that the minority enrage both the authorities and the majority of honest boaters causing us to rant and the authorities to introduce draconian rules that effect all. long winded I know but its how I feel

PS I am not a traveler or a bargee and dont want to be referred to as such I am a boater cause I have a boat

[Wanted]

Is wanting a house dishonest?

[MtB]

Is wanting a house dishonest?

 

Depends how far left of centre one's politics are!

 

 

MtB

[boathunter]

 

I do indeed have a dislike of NBTA on several levels.

 

In particular;

 

1) I take issue with their aim to facilitate those who seek to move as little as possible to the detriment of leisure boaters. I see it as legitimate for me to object to any organisation which seeks to do things that are contrary to my interests.

2) I find their use of a name that is lacking in accuracy as to who they are to be dishonest

 

If I were to found an organisation called the National Working Boatmen's Association, then say "all our members have jobs and they are all men with boats", would you accept the name or would you suggest that it was a little misleading.

This ain't the 1950's. It's time you caught up with reality.

[peterboat]

Is wanting a house dishonest?

No its not but having read Lady Mucks link to proposed new laws it could cause problems for all boaters that live on boats. The question is why did they draw up those laws and if implemented how many innocent boaters will be caught by push to clear up the canals by certain authorities

 

Peter

[Wanted]

 

Depends how far left of centre one's politics are!

 

 

MtB

 

[matty40s]

That looks like cotswoldman you are quoting there.

 

Dave Mayall is so far off with his present diatribes, he may as well join the MRLB.