NBTA London Legal Rights Meeting

[cotswoldsman]

I would be amazed if their membership was under 1,000

[Barry]

I am quite shocked that Alan is one of those who formed an opinion 4 years ago and is unable to change it.

 

Mind there's enough errors of fact in his post, maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

 

Tell us what Alan's errors are please.

 

Maybe then all the observers of this thread can understand the difference between what he says and what NBTA are not saying. At the moment all I understand is Alan's point of view because that's all I see

[mayalld]

Things have changed. NBTA is not solely Nick Brown. They have members who are in the legal profession. I'd also say, don't assume that they advise boaters to break the law, that's really not the case.

 

I've really changed my opinion too and I know I'm not alone in that.

And the BNP isn't Nick Griffin. I still won't be supporting them either.

 

NBTA was an organisation of no more than a handful who adopted a name to create a fiction of representing a group of people.

 

Their claim that they aren't about breaking the law is laughable. They simply dress up breaking the law by claiming that any law they want to ignore doesn't apply.

 

Worst of all is that they have laid claim to the name Traveller, when they are utterly unconnected to genuine travellers.

[Alf Roberts]

 

Tell us what Alan's errors are please.

 

Maybe then all the observers of this thread can understand the difference between what he says and what NBTA are not saying. At the moment all I understand is Alan's point of view because that's all I see

The obvious one is that NBTA has no connection at all with the Kennet and Avon, as far as I know has very little membership in the area.

 

His conflation of Panda Smith and NBTA is also wrong.

 

I don't know about membership numbers as they are not published but neither does Alan.

 

I am sure this will change your opinion not one whit ( why would it?) but you asked.

[RLWP]

His conflation of Panda Smith and NBTA is also wrong.

 

 

That must be a recent change then. Pamela was the representative of the NBTA at the National Users forums

 

Richard

[Alf Roberts]

Oh, ok, strike that one. Just goes to show, never believe anything you read on the net ;-)

[Barry]

The obvious one is that NBTA has no connection at all with the Kennet and Avon, as far as I know has very little membership in the area.

 

His conflation of Panda Smith and NBTA is also wrong.

 

I don't know about membership numbers as they are not published but neither does Alan.

 

I am sure this will change your opinion not one whit ( why would it?) but you asked.

 

Alf I asked the question because I genuinely don't know what NBTA is about - nor what their history is. Not knowing those things I have no opinion about them.

 

So I thank you for the first three lines of your reply.

 

I do not thank you for the last line. It was an unnecessary jibe and does you and, by extension, the organisation you support no good at all

[jenlyn]

And the BNP isn't Nick Griffin. I still won't be supporting them either.

NBTA was an organisation of no more than a handful who adopted a name to create a fiction of representing a group of people.

Their claim that they aren't about breaking the law is laughable. They simply dress up breaking the law by claiming that any law they want to ignore doesn't apply.

Worst of all is that they have laid claim to the name Traveller, when they are utterly unconnected to genuine travellers.

The fact in my eyes though, is that more listen to NBTA than they do to you. (Perhaps that's a saving grace). The slagging you now aim at them merely shows your failure to accept what is going on outside of your own little world.

I give credit to the NBTA for showing the ability to change, rather than constantly digging the past for reasons to discredit them. I don't necessarily agree with some of their present views, but ultimately they are doing something constructive.

[Alf Roberts]

I do not thank you for the last line. It was an unnecessary jibe and does you and, by extension, the organisation you support no good at all

Not intended as a jibe. I don't see anything in those statements that would influence anyone's opinion.

[MtB]

 

Alf I asked the question because I genuinely don't know what NBTA is about - nor what their history is. Not knowing those things I have no opinion about them.

 

So I thank you for the first three lines of your reply.

 

I do not thank you for the last line. It was an unnecessary jibe and does you and, by extension, the organisation you support no good at all

 

 

This^^^

 

I too know virtually nothing about the NBTA and am interested to find out more. I like to think I have an open mind and like Bazza I am looking to learn and have no preconceptions other than that Panda and Nick Brown are closely involved.

 

I must say though, that I haven't learned much more from this thread yet. Is it all a secret only available to those attending the meetings?

 

 

MtB

[Barry]

Not intended as a jibe. I don't see anything in those statements that would influence anyone's opinion.

 

Then I apologise for being over sensitive.

 

I'm not sure how anyone else works and I can't speak for them but: If there's a contentious issue I try to not form an opinion until I know more about it. I need information for that. Your reply gave me more information than I had before so yes, it does help

[MtB]

P.S. Ok, a brief google finds their website http://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/

[jenlyn]

This^^^

 

I too know virtually nothing about the NBTA and am interested to find out more. I like to think I have an open mind and like Bazza I am looking to learn and have no preconceptions other than that Panda and Nick Brown are closely involved.

 

I must say though, that I haven't learned much more from this thread yet. Is it all a secret only available to those attending the meetings?

 

 

MtB

Surely your answer to that would be better found by attending one of their meetings?

[MtB]

Surely your answer to that would be better found by attending one of their meetings?

 

I'm reading their website instead. Driving to London this afternoon is more effort than necessary when the website seems to give a good flavour of what they are about.

 

MtB

[jenlyn]

I'm reading their website instead. Driving to London this afternoon is more effort than necessary when the website seems to give a good flavour of what they are about.

 

MtB

So be it. Sort of justifies my view about the keyboard warrior....

[MtB]

So be it. Sort of justifies my view about the keyboard warrior....

 

I prefer boating to hanging about in London pubs

 

 

MtB

[Alf Roberts]

 

 

This^^^

 

I too know virtually nothing about the NBTA and am interested to find out more. I like to think I have an open mind and like Bazza I am looking to learn and have no preconceptions other than that Panda and Nick Brown are closely involved.

 

I must say though, that I haven't learned much more from this thread yet. Is it all a secret only available to those attending the meetings?

 

 

MtB

Given the treatment meted out to those with different opinions to the 'group mind' I certainly wouldn't bring anything to this forum's table, organisation or commercial venture.

 

The only thing you'll learn from this thread is that they are having a meeting. As a non-London non-continuous cruiser non-liveaboard I doubt much of it will be relevant to you. But then perhaps you are simply searching for ammunition for criticism.

 

I've just had a look at their website and it seems it's not their number one priority. Not keyboard warriors.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Alf Roberts

[b0atman]

Oh goody a meeting what is the order of business ?

1 Continuous moor and CRT (the bad boys)will give you a notice this is what you need to do to delay any action.

2 AOB

[Guest]

Given the treatment meted out to those with different opinions to the 'group mind' I certainly wouldn't bring anything to this forum's table, organisation or commercial venture.

 

The only thing you'll learn from this thread is that they are having a meeting. As a non-London non-continuous cruiser non-liveaboard I doubt much of it will be relevant to you. But then perhaps you are simply searching for ammunition for criticism.

 

I've just had a look at their website and it seems it's not their number one priority. Not keyboard warriors.

You seem to be saying opinions are only valid if they concur with your way of thinking or they indulge in some way in a bit of 'back slapping' for the NBTA, ie that they conform to a different 'group mind' this being the one you subscribe to.

Edited October 4, 2014 by The Dog House

[Alf Roberts]

Not at all. You're entitled to whatever opinion you like.

 

I am saying that the treatment meted out on here at various times means I would never bring an enterprise to its table.

 

And I'm not alone in that.

For instance this thread, tony Dunkley's thread, Pillings lock, braunston marina. The various criticisms of surveyors and boatyards in some cases simply because the OP gained an immediate sympathy which is then very difficult to shift.

 

The reception NBTA has had on this thread is a case in point. All it did was announce a meeting. Look at Mayalld's content free slagging.

 

How about Barby? It got such bad treatment that its very name attracts vitriol. But recent anecdotal evidence shows that to be deeply flawed.

 

Would you suggest the owner of Barby runs that gauntlet simply to put his point of view ? Or would you think him wise to keep his own counsel and let people make up their own minds?

Edited October 4, 2014 by Alf Roberts

[MtB]

I am saying that the treatment meted out on here at various times means I would never bring an enterprise to its table.

 

And I'm not alone in that.

For instance this thread, tony Dunkley's thread, Pillings lock, braunston marina. The various criticisms of surveyors and boatyards in some cases simply because the OP gained an immediate sympathy which is then very difficult to shift.

 

 

I think you have a very good point and it's a perfectly accurate observation. I think this despite me being one of those in the Pillings thread criticising them so heavily. I am finding this type of debate more and more unpleasant these days which leads me to spend less time on here, and when I do, to take less part.

 

So I accept your criticism.

 

MtB

[NBTA London]

First, it appears that we may have broken the forum rules by starting this thread without getting permission first. If that is the case then I'd like to apologise on behalf of NBTA London for the oversight. For future reference, what is the procedure for getting permission? Should we email sitehost/sitecrew?

 

Beyond that, the only matter I'd like to address at the moment is the issue of rights versus responsibilities. We each have a responsibility to comply with the law. Beyond that, we have a right to do absolutely anything we choose. So a discussion of legal rights must, of necessity, be a discussion of responsibilities.

[Timleech]

First, it appears that we may have broken the forum rules by starting this thread without getting permission first. If that is the case then I'd like to apologise on behalf of NBTA London for the oversight. For future reference, what is the procedure for getting permission? Should we email sitehost/sitecrew?

 

Beyond that, the only matter I'd like to address at the moment is the issue of rights versus responsibilities. We each have a responsibility to comply with the law. Beyond that, we have a right to do absolutely anything we choose. So a discussion of legal rights must, of necessity, be a discussion of responsibilities.

 

No such thing as *moral* responsibilities, then?

 

Tim

[cotswoldsman]

Reading this thread and others I can understand why membership of the various Associations has been growing so strongly over the past year as boaters seek someone to represent them. What does concern me is that this increase in membership has been since BW became CRT and we had a sudden prolifically of changes and tinkering I am starting to have fond memories of the peaceful life under BW

Edited October 4, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[magpie patrick]

First, it appears that we may have broken the forum rules by starting this thread without getting permission first. If that is the case then I'd like to apologise on behalf of NBTA London for the oversight. For future reference, what is the procedure for getting permission? Should we email sitehost/sitecrew?

 

Beyond that, the only matter I'd like to address at the moment is the issue of rights versus responsibilities. We each have a responsibility to comply with the law. Beyond that, we have a right to do absolutely anything we choose. So a discussion of legal rights must, of necessity, be a discussion of responsibilities.

 

I think it was me who pointed out the forum rules, and it certainly wasn't a dig at you as it's an easy mistake to make: if you post an event in the "events" sub-forum it won't appear on the board until a mod approves it. In your case I really can't see why they wouldn't approve this event although I'm not a mod and I'm not sure what the criteria for approval/rejection might be - I also can't think of any event I'd object to that would get past the site crew anyway so I didn't report your post. That's a very long winded way of saying you didn't upset me.

 

However, on the rights and responsibilities I'd raise a question mark. It is a very legalistic view to to say we have a right to absolutely anything we choose so long as it isn't illegal. Put it another way there is a need for responsible behaviour when exercising one's right - away from canals there is often nothing illegal about driving past a school at 30mph but it can be downright irresonsible. I think ACC came onto the scene promoting this concept. I would hope the NBTA would, in some small way, promote the idea of being a good neighbour (which isn't the same thing as being a pushover) and if they do I would applaud it.